De andere Vincent van Gogh?

[Egmond Codfried]

Originally posted by Egmond Codfried:
[QB]

Off course, its only after 6 years of studying Blacks in European art, I can come out and say that these paintings truly remind me of Blacks.
I have searched for information about the family De Groot from Nuenen, depicted as The Patato Eaters by Van Gogh (1885), a native Dutch family. Found nothing yet, but his sister in law and her son who both did a lot for Van Gogh to be known and famous. [/QB]

Originally posted by Egmond Codfried:
[QB] Mike dear,

All of us have became much wiser because know we know NEVER to take any portrait for its face value.

Apparently the historical Blacks who ruled Europe were so secure in their Blackness, they could paint their faces white, if they felt like it, and order whitened paintings. Many, I assume, doted on their courtpainters to make them look anything beautifull, as women today worship their hairdresser for making them look something. Like how Oprah and her Reggie Wells, who help her to be one of 'the pretty girls on tv,' as she puts it.

But with all the myriad of types of Blacks, you can understand that there blackness was a matter of identity. They formed a castsystem against the whites who were the castless. Among the elite their might have been some whites, who made it rich, or they were fair, like Caddhafy was, without recent white (serfs) admixture.

I read this bio of Anna of Denmark who married black & poof hubby James I and saw in his connection with the extremely handsome white Robert Carr how whites were incorporated into the power structure and elevated to new nobility to placate rebellious whites.

People who could never see their king, knew them from childhood as whites.

The disbelieve of the whites on this forum has to do with their own fear of Blacks, and Black rule. I guess some are still in shock and will never recover that Barack Obama is sitting with his black ass in the White House.

The Black elite was a fixed mulatto race, some looking more classical African, others more Asian, and others more white. But they freely married, so within one family, one generation you could have different facial traits or complexions, but they were from the same Black genepool. They were connected by the idea that Black and brown was superior and whites were considered shoe leather trash. Divinity was Black, because the elite was Black.



[Jo Bonger van Gogh with unknown woman and her son Vincent Willem van Gogh, who inhereted works by his uncle, and founded a Vincent van Gogh foundation]

Did you ever hear of the Dutch painter Vincent van Gogh? The world knows him only because of the great efforts of his sister in law Johanna Bonger van Gogh. She was given a hard time because she was a woman. But strangeley, never any mention of her Asian looks and black complexion. A biography never shows her portrait, no question how she got her looks. Because Van Gogh must be preserevd as white, no black bitch coming near this beacon of white supremacy. Yet he chose for his first formal paintings a Black family De Groot. The comments on the models and the works was circumspect, but their Blackness was not lost on his commentators.

Honey, we are making progress by pushing the envelope, and I'm the first person who talks about Blackness in connection to Van Gogh and points out that Jo Bongers must have had Indonesian (?) ancestors.

I see ioness want to discuss that these Blacks are not Blacks because they are not nappy headed enough. We are talking about black goddam European kings, but their noses are not broad enough. A pity they are not nude, so we could appraise their black dicks! No? [/QB]

[Egmond Codfried]

Belley by Girodet (1797)

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Egmond Codfried

Van Gogh heeft de zogenaamde wetenschappelijk contouren van een zwarte schedel weergegeven. Mijn conclusie is niet op slechts één afbeelding gebaseerd.

Maar goed, de doelgroep ziet altijd meteen wat ik bedoel, want ze zijn niet geestelijk beschadigd door racistische indoctrinatie.

Opvallend is dat conservators ook altijd ontkennen dat het om zwarte typen gaat, maar ze tonen deze portretten meestal niet aan het publiek, of vermijden ze in publicaties.

[Egmond Codfried]

Vincent van Gogh, extremely handsome as a young man, does not strike me as physically Black. But their might have been a strong Black consciousness; for him choosing a Black rural family for his first formal paintings. While at the same time his brother married a dark skinned, oriental (?) looking woman. I did not find sources to link her to Indonesia, yet. But she could have been many other ethnicities. Some later portraits by Van Gogh show coloured persons. Educated Europeans regarded Adam as a Black man, made from the black soil. Van Gogh, who trained to be a minister, might have symbolically chosen a rare Black family to start his career as a painter. Then I felt again the need, as with Isabelle de Charriere, to point out the elements off Blackness, swirling around their person; as a way of explaining the personality and themes. And I was amazed that his sister in law is the person who gave the world Vincent van Gogh, in spite of the hostility of the established art world. From the titbits I have read so far, the first persons who appraised the artistic merits of the Potato Eaters series; used jargon, which might show they were aware that Blacks were depicted. Van Gogh lived with an ex-prostitute, in a long gone house, near where I live in The Hague, and I have scrutinized her picture as well as her daughter's picture on the web. She is not regarded as his child. There is a hint of darkness, but really very vague. But I also notice that dark skinned Johanna Bonger van Gogh appears quite white of skin in some photographs.

Originally posted by Egmond Codfried:
[QB]



http://bouillabaiseworkinprogress.bl...-suriname.html

Oldest picture made in Suriname. The Parents of Ellis, who became a Dutch Minister of the Marine. His mother was born a slave, his father was the natural son of a Surinam governor.
The minister looks Asian. So Jo Bonger van Gogh could be anything coloured. [/QB]

[Egmond Codfried]

As I’m reading on I found this seven parts series of correspondence from Vincent van Gogh with his brother Theo. Some letters are shown in facsimile, but with all letters they have printed the paintings and images which Van Gogh is discussing, and naming as an inspiration. We also find pieces from literature and poetry which inspired his work, and his appreciation of other art works.

This series also shows the little sketches that Van Gogh added to the letters to Theo to show what he was working on. The earliest sketch of the Potato Eaters shows already one or two Black persons (the woman pouring coffee), but also one white man (the man offering is cup for coffee).

Apparently Van Gogh decided later on to make all his personages Blacks, following in the steps of all great European painters who painted Blacks, and symbolic Moors. The final line from the novel The Mine by Emile Zola is named by Van Gogh, about a Black Race emerging from the ground, as inspiration.

My idea that there were Blacks among the Family De Groot from Nuenen, Noord Brabant, still stands. Or that more farmers in Nuenen in 1885 were Blacks with more or less white admixture. Earlier research on Baroness Isabelle de Charriere’s granny, Maria Jacoba van Goor (1687-1737), showed the Van Goor family starting out as farmers in Noord Brabant, then a son moving to Amsterdam to become a merchant, and the family becoming very rich and important, with a fifth generation member marrying a baron.

[Egmond Codfried]

Gordina de Groot: duidelijk een afbeelding bedoelt om een Zwarte vrouw uit te beelden.

[Another Jack]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Egmond Codfried

As I’m reading on I found this seven parts series of correspondence from Vincent van Gogh with his brother Theo. Some letters are shown in facsimile, but with all letters they have printed the paintings and images which Van Gogh is discussing, and naming as an inspiration. We also find pieces from literature and poetry which inspired his work, and his appreciation of other art works.

This series also shows the little sketches that Van Gogh added to the letters to Theo to show what he was working on. The earliest sketch of the Potato Eaters shows already one or two Black persons (the woman pouring coffee), but also one white man (the man offering is cup for coffee).

Apparently Van Gogh decided later on to make all his personages Blacks, following in the steps of all great European painters who painted Blacks, and symbolic Moors. The final line from the novel The Mine by Emile Zola is named by Van Gogh, about a Black Race emerging from the ground, as inspiration.

My idea that there were Blacks among the Family De Groot from Nuenen, Noord Brabant, still stands. Or that more farmers in Nuenen in 1885 were Blacks with more or less white admixture. Earlier research on Baroness Isabelle de Charriere’s granny, Maria Jacoba van Goor (1687-1737), showed the Van Goor family starting out as farmers in Noord Brabant, then a son moving to Amsterdam to become a merchant, and the family becoming very rich and important, with a fifth generation member marrying a baron.

Egmond, steenkool is zwart.

[Egmond Codfried]

Zwarten, Moderne Moren

[eno2]

rotzooien met Vincent

[Egmond Codfried]

http://www.onzeplek.nl/forum/forum_p...1264&KW=bonger

Helaas nog geen zekerheid of Johanna Bonger van Indische afkomst is.

[Egmond Codfried]

Er is een reactie van Anton Karssemakers (1921) een vriend van Van Gogh, die schrijft over de 'kafferachtige' gelaatstrekken van de aardappeleters. Ga het artikel zoeken. Wat mij opvalt is de variatie in trekken waardoor het lijkt alsof hij werkelijk Zwarte en gemengde personen voor zich had in Nuenen 1885.


http://www.groene.nl/2009/8/van-gogh...n-van-de-nacht

http://www.dbnl.org/tekst/gogh006bri...6brie01_01.pdf

‘Ge stondt verbaasd zooals alles vol hing en stond met schilderijen, teekeningen
in waterverf en krijt, koppen van mannen en vrouwen waarvan de kafferachtige
wipneuzen, uitstekende jukbeenderen en groote ooren, sterk geaccentueerd, de
knuisten vereeld en gegroefd; wevers en weefstoelen, spoelsters, aardappelpooters,
onkruidwiedsters, ontelbare stillevens, wel tien studies in olieverf van het oude reeds
genoemde kapelletje in Nuenen, waarmee hij zoo dweepte en dat hij dan ook in alle
jaargetijden en onder alle weersgesteldheid geschilderd had. (Later is dit kapelletje
door de Nuenensche wandalen zooals hij ze noemde, gesloopt).