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20 augustus 2004, 09:32 | #121 | |
Banneling
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20 augustus 2004, 11:35 | #122 | |
Burger
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20 augustus 2004, 11:40 | #123 |
Burger
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Durf je er dan ook bijvertellen:
- dat voor die oorlog geen enkele Arabische staat Israël wou erkennen? - dat de Syriërs niet beter vonden om het water dat naar Israël stroomde om te leiden - er constant grensaanvallen waren van Syrische Migs? - Egypte de Israëlische vloot blokkeerde? Kijk jong, als je boel zoekt, krijg je vroeg of laat kloppen op je bek...en moet je achteraf niet komen janken. En da's wat er met die arabiertjes gebeurd is. |
20 augustus 2004, 12:57 | #124 | |
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en hert zijn toch wel feiten in de teksten die ik post zkers...
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KRITIEK OP ISRAEL IS TERECHT MEYER: ZELF EEN HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR :"hetgeen israel de palestijnen aandoet is hetzelfde als datgene wat de nazi's de joden aandeden in de jaren 30" VN RESOLUTIES ISRAEL :Iran wel en zij niet? res 1 res 2 Laatst gewijzigd door bruut geweld : 20 augustus 2004 om 12:58. |
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20 augustus 2004, 13:04 | #125 | |
Minister-President
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Maar het blijft leuk om die fundi's bezig te zien.. vooral pollytje die echt een boontje voor me heeft Zwart/wit denken is natuurlijk de makkelijkste zaak van de wereld.... |
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20 augustus 2004, 13:22 | #126 | |
Minister-President
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Als morgen de Vn beslist dat half vlaanderen weggeven wordt en de achterliggende motivatie is : vlaanderen is toch geen officieel land en we geven het aan de fransen; spanjaarden , noormannen of de buitenaardse mannetjes die hier ook een staat wensen, dan is het maar logisch dat die niet erkend wordt door diegenen die ervoor(onze europese behandeling van de joden gedurende WO II)moeten opdraaien. logisch dat er verzet is ! je logica is natuurlijk dermate fascinerend : ze moeten zich aanvankelijk maar laten doen, als ze opkomen tegen de zionistische agressor dan mogen ze 60 jaar nadien volledig uit hun land verdreven worden. |
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20 augustus 2004, 14:14 | #127 | |
Eur. Commissievoorzitter
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Ik ben er niet zeker van of onderstaande werkelijk uit de talmoed komen. Wetende dat ik ze van deze site heb gevonden( http://www.principalityofcamside.cc/...Talmud_The.htm ) mag je ze natuurlijk met de nodige scepsis benaderen. Als ze kloppen, bevestigen ze wel de titel van deze thread.
Ik voeg er nog een link( http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/talmud.htm ) bij. Ik heb diagonaal enkele pagina's doorgenomen en kon er eerlijk gezegd niets bezwarend in vinden. Citaat:
Zo belandde ik in Thailand eens in een restaurantje uitgebaat door Israëliers. Het was een vrijdag kort voor zonsondergang, dus net voor het begin van de sabbat. Op dat ogenblik had ik dat nog niet in de motten. Ze hadden de meeste tafels bijmekaar geschoven en zaten daar in groep. Zelf nam ik plaats aan een vrij tafeltje. Terwijl ik wachtte om mijn bestelling te plaatsen, kwam er een meisje naar me toe en nodigde mij uit om bij hun aan tafel aan te schuiven. Het was een leuke meid dus ik ging daar gretig op in. Tijdens het onderhoud met haar kwam dan eindelijk de aap uit de mouw. Het was ook geen probleem dat ik als niet-jood(bovendien van Turkse afkomst en een vervagende Islamitische achtergrond) de ceremonie bijwoonde. Dat was een opluchting want ik voelde al de hete adem van de mossad in mijn nek. De rest van de avond verliep heel gezellig. Ze begonnen met enkele gebeden in het kiddish. Dan werd er gezongen en geklapt. Er ging een kelk met wijn rond waar ik ook van genipt heb. Ook werd er een stukje brood waarop ze zout hadden gestrooid uitgedeeld die ik ook naar binnen gespeeld heb. Daarna begaf iedereen zich naar het eerder klaargemaakte buffet(bereid voor zonsondergang). Ik schepte lustig mee op en was er aangenaam door verrast. Echt lekker. En koosjer! Wat is de moraal van het verhaal? Simpel. Heb geen vooroordelen! Vorm je oordeel over een individu als mens en niet als iemand van een bepaalde nationaliteit.Ik geef toe dat ik mij soms ook daaraan bezondig(ben maar ook een mens) maar gelukkig is er nog de rede en die plaatst de zaken in een juist en eerlijk perspectief.
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Wet van Abu Bakr Al-Godwin: naarmate online-discussies langer worden, nadert de waarschijnlijkheid van een vergelijking met de moslims of Mohammed tot 1. Laatst gewijzigd door Ke Nan : 20 augustus 2004 om 14:17. |
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20 augustus 2004, 14:23 | #128 | |
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als je echter terechte kritiek gaat zien als antisemitisme/nazisme ga je eerder datgene voedden waar je voor vreest. fijn nog eens een INHOUDELIJKE bijdrage te mogen lezen |
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20 augustus 2004, 14:26 | #129 | |
Burger
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20 augustus 2004, 14:40 | #130 |
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toch wel; maar blijkbaar lees jij te selectief , vandaar deze bron.
het is een jood en een rabbi uit die periode ...zionistische/antisemitsche bronnen hebben immers geen zin ps: we hadden het wel over jouw theoretische logica ; ze hadden zich maar niet moeten verzetten , dan zouden ze nu "niet op hun bek krijgen"...heb dus nergens beweerd dat ze zich zomaar lieten doen, wel je eigen gedachtengang volgen he INTERVIEW WITH RABBI BARUCH KAPLAN This is a free translation of a Yiddish transcript of a taped interview made some twenty years ago with the late Rabbi Baruch Kaplan, who was a principal of the Beis Yaakov Girls School in Brooklyn, and who was a student in the Hebron yeshiva (religious school) in 1929 at the time of the killing of a number of Jews by some Arabs. Rabbi Kaplan explains how events unfolded, and how it was the arrogant and cowardly Zionist maniacs who perpetrated the events by provoking the Palestinians “When I was in Hebron in 1929, there occurred the tragic massacre of over twenty yeshiva students, great scholars, plus another forty members of the Jewish community. I would like to describe the error that has circulated in Jewish communities – a horrible error, that accuses the Arabs in Hebron of being murderers who attacked the Jews simply because the Arabs were “bad people.” In order to correct the record, this error must be corrected. The Arabs were very friendly people, and the Jewish People in Hebron lived together with them and had very friendly relations with them. They worked for Jews, and everybody got along just fine. To take just one example, I used to have the habit of walking a mile or two out of town all by myself to visit a tree that was believed to be the tree where our patriarch Abraham met the three angels, as described in Genesis. I especially enjoyed visiting the tree in the summertime. Along the way I would talk to the Arabs, though it was mostly using our hands because I didn’t speak any Arabic. Interestingly enough, no one in the yeshiva ever told me it was dangerous to go by myself among the Arabs. We just lived with them, and got along very well. I have also seen a letter from the Grand Rabbi of the Gerrer Hassidim of those days, Rabbi Avraham Mordechai Alter of Poland, regarding his trip to the Holy Land during the days when people were talking about emigrating to Palestine. He wanted to find out what kind of people the Palestinians were, in order to be able to advise people whether to move there or not. He wrote in his letter that the Arabs were a very friendly and fine people. Therefore it’s necessary to set the record straight about the accusations that the Palestinians were terrible killers who liked attacking Jews. This was never the situation at all! Today’s wicked Zionists are just like their predecessors, who were responsible for causing terrible suffering in Palestine with their wars with the Arabs, may G-d have mercy. At that time in 1929, the Zionists had a slogan arguing that the Western Wall in Jerusalem was a Jewish “national symbol.” Of course, the Arabs disagreed with this idea, considering that they had control of the location for over 1,100 years. However, the Zionist mobs were yelling that “The Wall is ours!” It’s hard to understand why they felt that way considering they have no connection to the Jewish holy places whatsoever. An argument erupted in the Jewish newspapers about establishing a permanent prayer area for Jews at the Wall. This provoked the Arabs, and the rabbi of Jerusalem at the time, Rabbi Yosef Chaim Zonnenfeld begged them to stop and to be appreciative to the Arabs for allowing Jews to pray at the Wall for so many centuries undisturbed. However, the Zionists wanted a permanent setup under their control. The Zionists refused to heed the calls of Rabbi Zonnenfeld, and they called a large meeting of Jews in Jerusalem – supposedly some 10,000 people showed up. One of the speakers was their “chief Rabbi” (Avraham Isaac Kook), who proclaimed, “Hear O Israel, the Wall is our Wall, the Wall is One” (which is a ridiculous pun on the blessing, “Hear O Israel, the Lord your G-d, the Lord is One”). This began the conflict at the time between the Zionists and the Arabs. Afterwards, we were studying at the yeshiva in Hebron, and saw a bunch of boys in short pants carrying weapons on bicycles and motorcycles, running around the streets of Hebron. We were very worried about this. What were they up to? In brief, our rabbi, the supervisor of our religious academy, Rabbi Moshe Mordechai Epstein, called them for a meeting, but they refused. He was forced to go over to them, and asked them what they were up to. He accused them of wanting to provoke the Arabs. They responded that they were coming to protect us!! We cried out, “Woe is us! G-d have mercy!” They didn’t want to leave town until it was too late! These arrogant cowards only ran away when the local leaders of the Arabs called for a mass meeting of the people of the surrounding Arab villages. But it was too late; the Arabs got organized, and the Mufti called on his people to be ready Friday night when the yeshiva would be attending prayers. At this point, the yeshiva was alone against the Zionists, but the Arabs didn’t know to distinguish between us and the Zionists. Sadly they attacked and killed some of our people, including the great scholar, Rabbi Shmuel Rosenhaltz. The next morning we heard about the excitement in town, and even worse, we heard the crying and shouting. I and a friend, Avraham Ushpener, lived in an apartment that was part of a three-story building leased by a Jew from an Arab. We could hear all the noise from our apartment on the third floor. We were terrified to let the Arabs in because we knew how angry they had become, but a while later things calmed down. In total, some 65 people were killed. On the other side of town, however, the Jews were spared. Why am I telling this story? It is because I wanted to describe how the wicked Zionists, both today and in those days, were the cause of our suffering! They cooperated with the Nazis, and our religion teaches that a person who causes someone to sin is worse than someone who kills him. It reminds me of an event recounted by Rabbi Moshe Schonfeld, who once visited Rabbi Avraham Yeshayahu Karelitz {Chazon Ish) when the Zionist state was established, and when there was fighting between the Zionists and the Arabs. Rabbi Schonfeld told Rabbi Karelitz about what was happening. Rabbi Karelitz told him that the crimes of the Zionists were much worse, because they were wicked heretics who were uprooting hundreds of thousands of Jews from their faith and that is much greater pain since our Sages stated that a person who causes another person to sin is much worse than if he kills him. In our own days there is a Zionist leader (Begin), whose arrogance and selfishness is more important than anything else to him, and for which he is prepared to sacrifice hundreds and thousands of Jews. These heretics and evildoers, this Zionist leader of a state that killed the Judaism of the Yemenite and Moroccan Jews, and of many other Sephardic Jews! This is the work of these thugs and gangsters. And there are religious Jewish parties who dare to state that they love this man?! Everyone must know that the anger of the Arabs against us is only caused by the Zionists! The Arabs were a friendly people to us, and I am a witness to it. We lived very well with them in Hebron. Rabbi Alter attested to this as well, and it is the accursed Zionists who caused them to hate us. The Zionists dare to use their power to expel the Arabs, and even today in Lebanon, they kill and butcher the Arabs; they wipe out whole villages with the airplanes they get from the United States. Everyone should know who the murderers are – the Zionists are the biggest murderers in the world, who refuse to let the Jewish People live in peace either physically or spiritually!” !”
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KRITIEK OP ISRAEL IS TERECHT MEYER: ZELF EEN HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR :"hetgeen israel de palestijnen aandoet is hetzelfde als datgene wat de nazi's de joden aandeden in de jaren 30" VN RESOLUTIES ISRAEL :Iran wel en zij niet? res 1 res 2 Laatst gewijzigd door bruut geweld : 20 augustus 2004 om 14:41. |
20 augustus 2004, 14:55 | #131 |
Burger
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Heh, voor elk document bestaat er ook wel een andere visie hé
The Hebron Massacre of 1929 by Shira Schoenberg For some time, the 800 Jews in Hebron lived in peace with their tens of thousands of Arab neighbors. But on the night of August 23, 1929, the tension simmering within this cauldron of nationalities bubbled over, and for 3 days, Hebron turned into a city of terror and murder. By the time the massacres ended, 67 Jews lay dead and the survivors were relocated to Jerusalem, leaving Hebron barren of Jews for the first time in hundreds of years. The summer of 1929 was one of unrest in Palestine. Jewish-Arab tensions were spurred on by the agitation of the mufti in Jerusalem. Just one day prior to the start of the Hebron massacre, three Jews and three Arabs were killed in Jerusalem when fighting broke out after a Muslim prayer service on the Temple Mount. Arabs spread false rumors throughout their communities, saying that Jews were carrying out "wholesale killings of Arabs." Meanwhile, Jewish immigrants were arriving in Palestine in increasing numbers, further exacerbating the Jewish-Arab conflict. Hebron had, until this time, been outwardly peaceful, although tension hid below the surface. The Sephardi Jewish community in Hebron had lived quietly with its Arab neighbors for centuries. The Sephardi Jews (Jews who were originally from Spain, North Africa and Arab countries) spoke Arabic and had a cultural connection to their Arab neighbors. In the mid-1800s, Ashkenazi (native European) Jews started moving to Hebron and, in 1925, the Slobodka Yeshiva, officially the Yeshiva of Hevron, Knesset Yisrael-Slobodka, was opened. Yeshiva students lived separately from the Sephardi community, and from the Arab population. Due to this isolation, the Arabs viewed them with suspicion and hatred, and identified them as Zionist immigrants. Despite the general suspicion, however, one yeshiva student, Dov Cohen, still recalled being on "very good" terms with the Arab neighbors. He remembered yeshiva boys taking long walks late at night on the outskirts of the city, and not feeling afraid, even though only one British policeman guarded the entire city. On Friday, August 23, 1929, that tranquility was lost. Arab youths started throwing rocks at the yeshiva students. That afternoon, one student, Shmuel Rosenholtz, went to the yeshiva alone. Arab rioters later broke in and killed him, and that was only the beginning. Friday night, Rabbi Ya’acov Slonim’s son invited any fearful Jews to stay in his house. The rabbi was highly regarded in the community, and he had a gun. Many Jews took him up on this offer, and many Jews were eventually murdered there. As early as 8:00 a.m. on Saturday, the Jewish Sabbath, Arabs began to gather en masse. They came in mobs, armed with clubs, knives and axes. While the women and children threw stones, the men ransacked Jewish houses and destroyed Jewish property. With only a single police officer in Hebron, the Arabs entered Jewish courtyards with no opposition. Rabbi Slonim, who had tried to shelter the Jewish population, was approached by the rioters and offered a deal. If all the Ashkenazi yeshiva students were given over to the Arabs, the rioters would spare the lives of the Sephardi community. Rabbi Slonim refused to turn over the students and was killed on the spot. In the end, 12 Sephardi Jews and 55 Ashkenazi Jews were murdered. A few Arabs did try to help the Jews. Nineteen Arab families saved dozens, maybe even hundreds of Jews. Zmira Mani wrote about an Arab named Abu Id Zaitoun who brought his brother and son to rescue her and her family. The Arab family protected the Manis with their swords, hid them in a cellar along with other Jews who they had saved, and found a policeman to escort them safely to the police station at Beit Romano. The police station turned into a shelter for the Jews that morning of August 24. It also became a synagogue as the Orthodox Jews gathered there and said their morning prayers. As they finished praying, they began to hear noises outside the building. Thousands of Arabs descended from Har Hebron, shouting "Kill the Jews!" in Arabic. They even tried to break down the doors of the station. The Jews were besieged in Beit Romano for three days. Each night, ten men were allowed to leave to attend a funeral in Hebron’s ancient Jewish cemetery for the murdered Jews of the day. When the massacre finally ended, the surviving Jews were forced to leave their home city and resettled in Jerusalem. Some Jewish families tried to move back to Hebron, but were removed by the British authorities in 1936 at the start of the Arab revolt. In 1948, the War of Independence granted Israel statehood, but further cut the Jews off from Hebron, a city that was captured by King Abdullah's Arab Legion and ultimately annexed to Jordan. When Jews finally gained control of the city in 1967, a small number of massacre survivors again tried to reclaim their old houses. Then defense minister Moshe Dayan supposedly told the survivors that if they returned, they would be arrested, and that they should be patient while the government worked out a solution to get their houses back. Years later, settlers moved to parts of Hebron without the permission of the government, but for those massacre survivors still seeking their original homes, that solution never came. |
20 augustus 2004, 15:05 | #132 |
Minister-President
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je hebt blijkbaar NIET goed gelezen..
als je Zionistische bronnen raadpleegt , dan krijg je dat he... ik kan ook honderden anti semitische bronnen geven, maar die zijn even "tainted". mijn bron is dus : 1; een jood 2, een rabbi ( 3, leefde in die periode. als verweer heb jij enkel een zionistische jood die er zelfs niet bij was.. vind eens een palestijn die deze versie ontkracht.... als er joden zijn die enkel leugens vertellen (welke reden dan ?), moet het toch lukken he. |
21 augustus 2004, 11:12 | #133 | |
Banneling
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