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Guderian
13 maart 2004, 23:09
... is een man als hem destijds: http://www.galeon.com/escudoespana/personajes_files/Image5.gif

(1903-1936)

http://www.falange.org/josespee.jpg



http://www.falanges.com/public/foro/templates/subSilver/images/logo_phpBB.gif http://www.e-falange.com/fei/fotosnoticias/eleccionesgenerales.jpg

Jan van den Berghe
13 maart 2004, 23:12
We hebben geen nood aan falangistisch staatsnationalisme dat Basken, Catalanen en Asturiërs in hun bestaan ontkent, vervolgt en verdrukt.

Guderian
13 maart 2004, 23:16
We hebben geen nood aan falangistisch staatsnationalisme dat Basken, Catalanen en Asturiërs in hun bestaan ontkent, vervolgt en verdrukt.

Misschien is dat het enige punt van kritiek dat kan worden aangebracht, alhoewel een onafhankelijk land voor Catalanen, Basken,... voor mij niet hoeft. De oplossing ligt in een organische Rijksdenken. Het Falangisme was evenwel veel meer dan wat nationalisme.

Jan van den Berghe
13 maart 2004, 23:24
Misschien is dat het enige punt van kritiek dat kan worden aangebracht, alhoewel een onafhankelijk land voor Catalanen, Basken,... voor mij niet hoeft. De oplossing ligt in een organische Rijksdenken. Het Falangisme was evenwel veel meer dan wat nationalisme.

Jammer genoeg is het zo uitgedraaid en was er onder de falangistische dictatuur van Franco geen plaats voor de Catalanen, Basken of Asturiërs. Allen moesten en zouden Spanjaarden (= Castillianen) zijn of worden.

Onder Franco was het verboden in het Catalaans te schrijven, te publiceren. Zelfs het Catalaans volkslied neuriëren was strafbaar (een heerlijk lied trouwens)!

http://www10.gencat.net/gencat/AppJava/en/catalunya/simbols/himne.jsp

Over de Basken moeten we het niet hebben, want die hadden het in Franco's ogen wel volledig verkorven.

Guderian
14 maart 2004, 00:14
Misschien is dat het enige punt van kritiek dat kan worden aangebracht, alhoewel een onafhankelijk land voor Catalanen, Basken,... voor mij niet hoeft. De oplossing ligt in een organische Rijksdenken. Het Falangisme was evenwel veel meer dan wat nationalisme.

Jammer genoeg is het zo uitgedraaid en was er onder de falangistische dictatuur van Franco geen plaats voor de Catalanen, Basken of Asturiërs. Allen moesten en zouden Spanjaarden (= Castillianen) zijn of worden.

Onder Franco was het verboden in het Catalaans te schrijven, te publiceren. Zelfs het Catalaans volkslied neuriëren was strafbaar (een heerlijk lied trouwens)!

http://www10.gencat.net/gencat/AppJava/en/catalunya/simbols/himne.jsp

Over de Basken moeten we het niet hebben, want die hadden het in Franco's ogen wel volledig verkorven.

Euhm... Ik verdedig hier zeker niet Franco. Er is overigens nooit een Falangistische dictatuur geweest. Franco heeft enkel gebruik gemaakt van de naam Falangisme om zijn katholiek-integristische dictatuur te vestigen.

Jan van den Berghe
14 maart 2004, 00:16
Er is overigens nooit een Falangistische dictatuur geweest. Franco heeft enkel gebruik gemaakt van de naam Falangisme om zijn katholiek-integristische dictatuur te vestigen.

Graag had ik van u vernomen waar het verschil dan wel zit. Bij mijn weten is falangisme katholiek geïnspireerd.

filosoof
14 maart 2004, 23:05
Geweldig spijtig van de omstandigheden waarin het gebeurde, maar het Spaanse volk lijkt de politieke verantwoordelijkheid te leggen waar ze thuishoort

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Spain ruling conservatives defeated, Socialists claim
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MADRID (AFP) - Spain's ruling conservative party was headed for defeat in the highly emotional aftermath of last week's Madrid railway massacre in which 200 people were killed.


AFP Photo



With 86 percent of votes counted, the opposition Socialist Workers' Party (PSOE) claimed victory with about 164 seats projected in the 350-member Chamber of Deputies, while the conservatives would have only 148 seats.


PSOE secretary Jose Blanco said "it's a clear victory in terms of votes and seats," sparking euphoria at the party headquarters in Madrid.


The conservative Popular Party of outgoing Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar, which was ahead in the polls only a week ago, apparently took a pasting because of its support for the United States in the invasion and occupation of Iraq (news - web sites).


Only a week ago, four public opinion polls predicted the Popular Party would win with a reduced majority.


The elections came three days after a series of bomb blasts on four Madrid commuter trains that provoked high emotions among many voters against the government.


The government's support for the US-led occupation of Iraq apparently proved a liability after a statement attributed to Al-Qaeda said this was the reason for carrying out the devastating attacks, in which 1,500 people were wounded.


Up to 90 percent of the population was against the Iraq war and occupation, to which Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar has contributed 1,300 Spanish troops.


Aznar was stepping down after two terms as prime minister having handed over the PP reins to former deputy Mariano Rajoy, who was up against PSOE rival Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero.


Around two-thirds of Spain's 35 million voters turned out, a relatively high proportion.


The outgoing government had laid most suspicion for the attacks on the Basque separatist group ETA, which denied responsibility.


But in the hours before the election attention swung to possible Al-Qaeda involvement after a video was discovered claiming the atrocity in the Islamic group's name.


"We claim responsibility for what happened in Madrid exactly two and a half years after the attacks in New York and Washington," said a man claiming to be an Al-Qaeda spokesman in the video found Saturday.


"This is an answer to your cooperation with the Bush criminals and their allies. This is an answer to crimes which you committed in the world, notably in Iraq and Afghanistan (news - web sites), and there will be more, so help us God."


Following the threat, Spanish authorities implemented "exceptional" security measures for the elections with 106,000 officers in the streets and additional police forces "ready to be sent anywhere they may be needed," an interior ministry spokesman said.


Small groups of detractors booed Aznar and Rajoy, when they voted in separate Madrid polling stations, with some yelling "Manipulator" and "You fascists are the terrorists".


Aznar, who was stepping down after leading his party to two previous victories, told the crowd: "Whoever they are, wherever they come from, we will not let terrorists and fanatics cow Spanish society, divide it or destroy its freedom."


In a threat which experts said came from Osama bin Laden (news - web sites), the Al-Qaeda leader on October 18 warned his operatives would strike at Spain, Australia, Britain, Italy and other countries which helped the United States in Afghanistan and Iraq.

As the investigation into the Madrid bombings continued, Interior Minister Angel Acebes told a news conference Sunday that Spanish, British, French and Portuguese authorities had been so far unable to identify the man on the video.

The man had made the claim for the Madrid attacks in the name of "Al-Qaeda's military spokesman in Europe... Abu Dukhan Al Afghani."

Acebes said Spanish authorities were "not discarding any possibility" in the probe.

He added that three Moroccans and two Indians arrested late Saturday in relation to clues found in a bag containing a bomb that failed to go off were being held under an anti-terrorist law permitting extended detention.

"This will be a long and meticulous investigation," he said.

The spectre of Al-Qaeda involvement has prompted the European Union (news - web sites), the United States and allies in the Iraq occupation to boost security measures. The EU was considering calling an emergency meeting of interior ministers after a warning from Germany that possible Al-Qaeda involvement in the Madrid massacre raised the terrorism stakes in Europe.




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Next Story: Spain ruling conservatives defeated, Socialists claim (AFP)

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The Paulus Experience
14 maart 2004, 23:11
inderdaad.

De rekening, én gepeperd.

Guderian
16 maart 2004, 13:46
Partido Popular of PSOE, één pot nat.