Zo doen ze zich inderdaad voor, maar voor mij is er inhoudelijk niets fundamenteels veranderd. Radicale moslims lijken ook vaak erg gematigd (denk aan de daders van 9/11). En wat wel duidelijk is, is dat de achterban radicaliseert. Kijk maar even rond hier en op andere fora wat er door VB aanhangers soms allemaal wordt geschreven.

Om een gesprek aan te vangen met VB-mensen of mandatarissen moet je eerst luisteren naar hun zonder ze vooraf te veroordelen, zoals bv je eerste zin, een typische dooddoener van iemand die niet wenst te argumenteren.
Hetzelfde lees je bij mensen van traditionele partijen die wensen te praten met het VB, maar in geen coalitie willen of durven stappen, wat een onzin hé.
Wat willen ze dan? Hun steun om een meerderheid te vormen?
Je gaat toch ook niet praten met je aanstaande vrouw om haar te zeggen dat je niet wenst te trouwen met haar.

http://www.parlbruparl.irisnet.be/co...33/48/lang,nl/
Lijst van de volksvertegenwoordigers van het Brussels Hoofdstedelijk Parlement

Volgens taalrol en politieke fractie

Franse taalgroep
Nederlandse taalgroep PS (25 zetels)
Vlaams Belang (6 zetels)
1. De heer
AZZOUZI Mohamed
1. De heer DEMOL Johan 2. Mevr.
BOUARFA Sfia 2. De heer
ERENS Frederic 3. Mevr.
CARTHE Michèle 3. De heer
LOOTENS-STAEL Dominiek 4. De heer
CHAHID Mohammadi
4. De heer
PISON Erland 5. De heer
DAIF Mohamed
5. Mevr.
SEYNS Valérie 6. De heer
DE COSTER Jacques
6. De heer
VAN ASSCHE Jos 7. De heer
DECOURTY Willy
8. Mevr.
DE GALAN Magda
VLD (4 zetels)
9. Mevr.
DERBAKI SBAI Amina
10. De heer
DIALLO Bea
1. Mevr.
AMPE Els 11. De heer
EL KTIBI Ahmed
2. De heer
COPPENS René
12. Mevr.
EL YOUSFI Nadia
3. Mevr. DEJONGHE Carla 13. Mevr.
EMMERY Isabelle
4. De heer
VANRAES Jean-Luc
14. Mevr.
FISZMAN Julie
15. Mevr.
JAMOULLE Véronique
SP.a-Spirit (3 zetels)
16. De heer
LAHLALI Mohamed
17. De heer
LEDUC Alain
1. De heer
AHIDAR Fouad 18. De heer
MADRANE Rachid
2. De heer
BEGHIN Jan 19. Mevr.
MOUZON Anne-Sylvie
3. Mevr.
QUIX Marie-Paule
20. De heer
OZKARA Emin
21. Mevr.
P'TITO Olivia
CD&V (3 zetels)
22. De heer
ROMDHANI Mahfoudh

23. Mevr.
SAIDI Fatiha
1. De heer
CHABERT Jos 24. De heer
TOMAS Eric 2. Mevr.
DE PAUW Brigitte
25. De heer
VERVOORT Rudi
3. De heer
VANDENBOSSCHE Walter MR (24 zetels)
GROEN! (1 zetel)
1. Mevr.
BERTIEAUX Françoise
1. Mevr. BYTTEBIER Adelheid 2. De heer
CLERFAYT Bernard
3. De heer
COLSON Michel
4. De heer de CLIPPELE Olivier
5. De heer
de JONGHE d'ARDOYE d'ERP Yves
6. De heer
de PATOUL Serge
7. De heer
DESTEXHE Alain
8. De heer
DE WOLF Vincent
9. De heer
DRAPS Willem
10. Mevr.
GILSON Nathalie
11. De heer
GOSUIN Didier
12. Mevr.
HASQUIN-NAHUM Michèle
13. Mevr.
LEMESRE Marion

14. Mevr.
MOLENBERG Isabelle
15. Mevr.
PAYFA Martine
16. Mevr.
PERSOONS Caroline
17. De heer PIVIN Philippe
18. Mevr.
RAZZOUK Souad
19. De heer
ROELANTS DU VIVIER François
20. Mevr.
ROUSSEAUX Jacqueline
21. Mevr.
SCHEPMANS Françoise
22. De heer
SIMONET Jacques 23. Mevr.
TEITELBAUM Viviane
24. De heer
ZENNER Alain
cdH (10 zetels)
1. Mevr.
de GROOTE Julie
2. De heer
de LOBKOWICZ Stéphane
3. De heer
DELPEREE Francis
4. De heer
DOYEN Hervé
5. De heer
du BUS de WARNAFFE André
6. Mevr.
FREMAULT Céline
7. De heer
GRIMBERGHS Denis
8. De heer
MAMPAKA MANKAMBA Bertin
9. Mevr.
MOUSSAOUI Fatima
10. De heer
RIGUELLE Joël
Ecolo (7 zetels)
1. Mevr.
BRAECKMAN Dominique
2. De heer
DAEMS Alain
3. Mevr.
DELFORGE Céline
4. De heer
DOULKERIDIS Christos
5. De heer
DUBIE Josy
6. De heer
GALAND Paul
7. De heer
PESZTAT Yaron
FN (4 zetels)
1. De heer
ARKU Paul
2. De heer
FERET Daniel
3. Mevr.
RORIVE Audrey
4. Mevr.
VAN NIEUWENHOVEN Christiane
Onafhankelijke (2 zetels)
1. Mevr.
CARON Danielle 2. Mevr.
VYGHEN Carine

Met excuses voor het dooreenlopen van de lijsten. Beter zicht op de site zelf.

mvg

Harald.

Ik heb helemaal niet gezegd dat we moeten wachten en niks doen. Ik heb ook niet ontkend dat er een probleem is met radicale moslims in België (hoeveel keer moet ik dat eigenlijk nog zeggen). Maar ik geloof totaal niet in de simplistische oplossingen van het VB.

Maar het was wel Verdonk, die niet bepaald links kan genoemd worden, die haar Nederlanderschap wou afnemen.

Nee, ze moest weg van de rechter na een klacht van de buren, omdat het gebruik van de beveiligde woning een inbreuk vormden op het recht op persoonlijke levenssfeer van omwonenden (die daar al langer woonden). En dat heeft nu eens niets met demonisatie te maken.

Dat heb ik nooit iemand horen zeggen. Ze waren het echter niet met al haar standpunten eens. Onder meer niet met haar steun voor het harde immigratiebeleid van de VVD, waardoor ze zelf in eerste instantie nooit naar Nederland had kunnen migreren.

Inderdaad, ze is dus niet weggepest, maar had natuurlijk al langer besloten om te verhuizen.

Ik denk eerder dat ze aan de kaak wilden stellen dat het op zijn minst weinig consequent is om voor een immigratiebeleid te zijn (daar had ze recent nog uitspraken over gedaan) dat geen vluchtelingen wil toelaten zoals zij er zelf een was. Dat is immers nogal beetje egoïstisch ("ikke en de rest kan stikken") en hypocriet. Als jij geloofd dat ze die reportage hebben gemaakt omdat ze voorstander zijn van de sharia of omdat ze een radicale moslim in haar plaats wilden, dan moet jij dringend eens een andere bril opzetten.

Je kan veel zeggen, maar niet dat ik niet wil praten of argumenteer, want dan zat ik hier al lang niet meer. Dat was hier niet mijn eerste post, hé. En ik ga echt niet iedere keer herhalen waarom ik iets zeg. Bovendien verklaart dat niet waarom op dit en andere fora, zelf verklaarde VB-aanhangers een haattopic openen.

En uw punt is? De samenstelling van het Brussels Hoofdstedelijk Parlement is bovendien niet echt een bewijs voor het feit dat Vlamingen binnenkort in de minderheid zullen zijn in Vlaanderen, want tot nader order behoort Brussel nog steeds niet bij Vlaanderen.

Namen bewijzen ook niets. Uit een naam kan je geen religie afleiden. Er zijn ook moslims die intussen niet meer gelovig zijn.

En trouwens zelfs het VB beweerd geen problemen te hebben met geïntegreerde moslims. Zolang het geen radicale moslims zijn, die zich niet willen integreren en de islam willen opdringen aan anderen, is er toch geen probleem?

Hier zegt ge zoiets. Ik geloof totaal niet in het zogenaamde knuffelbeleid van de traditionele partijen. Het werkt niet. De traditionele partijen hebben hun kans gehad, maar de problemen worden alleen maar erger. Tijd dus om het roer om te gooien.

Dat was pas na die uitzending waar ze oude koeien uit de gracht haalden. Die feiten waren al lang bekend. Althans, Verdonk had het veel eerder kunnen weten.

Eh, nee, de demonisatie, dat kwam er nog bij. Het lijkt er echter op dat sommigen Ayaan weg wilden uit het parlement. De vraag is dus: Kan een kamerlid kritiek uiten op de Islam of niet? D�*�*r gaat het om.

Heel juist Stefanie

Dan ben je niet goed geïnformeerd. Een aantal weken geleden was daar om te doen.

Ayaan is een politiek vluchteling. Ik heb haar nooit horen zeggen dat ze politieke vluchtelingen wil terugsturen. Er zijn echter ook veel economische vluchtelingen. Maar waarom zouden die mensen hun land moeten verlaten? Waarom zouden de economische vluchtelingen de situatie in hun eigen land niet mogen verbeteren? Maar dat is een andere discussie.

Waarom zitten sommigen dan te zeveren dat Ayaan niet goed weet wat de Islam is?

Ik vrees dat jij verkeerd geïnformeerd bent. Ze was geen politiek vluchteling. Ze kwam uit Kenia, waar ze niet op één of andere manier werd vervolgd en niet uit Somalië zoals ze had gezegd om politiek asiel te kunnen krijgen. En ze is bleek ook niet op de vlucht voor een gedwongen huwelijk zoals ze ook had gezegd.

Er is bij mijn weten niemand die zegt dat ze niet weet wat de Islam is. Wat het probleem is, is dat ze alle moslims over dezelfde kam scheert en dat is onterecht. En zij sprak vooral uit haar beleving van de Islam en die is dus niet respresentatief voor alle moslims zoals zij het voorstelt. Zo worden vrouwen in Somalië wel degelijk besneden, maar in Marokko bijvoorbeeld niet. En zo zijn er oneindig veel verschillen.

Als er al demonisatie was (wat ik betwist, elke kritiek op rechts is demonisatie tegenwoordig), dan heeft die niets te maken met de beslissing van de rechter dat ze moest verhuizen. Dat bedoelde ik.

Ja, omdat door die reportage de inconsequentie van haar beleid werd aangetoond natuurlijk.

Dat mag jij vinden, maar ik geloof niet dat de simplistische oplossingen van het VB zullen werken en met mij vooralsnog een meerderheid van de bevolking.

1. Er was wel degelijk demonisatie.
2. In dat rapport staat wel degelijk dat de politici (ze bedoelden dus ook Ayaan) niet goed wisten wat de Islam eigenlijk was.
3. Kan Kenia haar beschermen tegen de moslims die haar willen doden? Kan ze daar al die dingen zeggen over de Islam?
4. Ayaan heeft een Islamitische opvoeding gehad. Zij kent de Islam dus. Punt. Als ge dat ontkent...

Ik weet dat sommigen haar weg wilden uit de kamer. Sommigen wilden van haar af. En verder: de feiten spreken voor zich. Die moslims worden duidelijk radicaler. De afgelopen jaren is het aantal vreemdelingen toegenomen. Als die trend zich doorzet, zullen de Vlamingen op 'n dag een minderheid zijn. Dat is gewoon de waarheid. Dat is gewoon 'n feit, geen mening. Maar de linksen komen met leugens en bedrog af. Ze hebben ons een gematigde Islam beloofd, maar daar is niks van in huis gekomen, in tegendeel. En dus vind jij het normaal om zomaar de politieke Islam te tolereren? Links kan de problemen alleen maar erger maken, dat hebben ze al genoeg bewezen. Wanneer 'n moslim anti-Westers is, dan is hij of zij het slachtoffer van racisme en discriminatie. Wanneer iemand van het Vlaams belang kritiek heeft, dan wordt hij of zij gedemoniseerd.

Het gaat om zoveel meer dan dat. Van de traditionele partijen mogen we niet meer zoeken naar 'n oplossing en mogen we'r niet meer over nadenken. Zij willen ons hun nefaste beleid door de strot rammen. Alle alternatieven worden afgeschoten. Zij willen niet eens over de voorstellen van het Vlaams belang nadenken. En dat is niet ernstig. Bovendien maken de traditionele partijen een zeer groot onderscheid. Men kijkt niet naar w�*t je zegt, maar naar wie het zegt. Die éne VLDer wou allochtonen al de toegang tot recreatieparken verbieden. Het Vlaams belang vond dat niet nodig. Het Vlaams belang heeft al veel voorstellen gedaan, ook veel goede, zinnige voorstellen. Het Vlaams belang heeft een radicale vleugel, maar ook een gematigde vleugel. Maar de andere partijen willen niet luisteren. Zij zaaien alleen maar haat. Het gevolg is nu dat Annemans bescherming krijgt, las ik.

Kaatd,

Dit rekensommetje werd ons indertijd al door robert s uit limburg voorgerekend en raakt afgezaagd.

24% = 24%


76% = de optelsom van wentelteefjes met potvisextract, geitenhoeders in Bourgeoisstallen en een blauw flauw afkooksel van wat ooit liberaal was met een miljonair aan hun gat, samen delen ze een hersencel met de bejaarde groene meisjes.

Anders gezegd, 24% met een eigen visie en 76% met een di rupette visie.

Noorman

Zeg jij...Heb je ook een bron voor die gepest-legende over HVT??

Joepie ! 't Zijn niet enkel de moslims die dat doen ! Dat praat vrouwenbesnijdenis goed natuurlijk ! Ga nog even zo verder en het wordt nog een democratisch recht !

Noorman

Een lichte irritatie maakt zich hier meester van de inzender ! Begint het eigen correcte denken te conflicteren met de onderliggende waarheid ?

Noorman

Als radicale moslims verwaarloosbaar zijn dan houdt het op vind ik, dan is er geen zinnige discussie meer mogelijk.

Mevrouw Edina : u bent er gewoon zelf één

Noorman

Als we Edina haar redenering volgen, moeten we die schietpartij in Antwerpen ook bagateliseren: hoeveel doden vallen er door iemand die met een geweer de straat opgaat? Verwaarloosbaar weinig, niet?

Heeft Edina nu nog niet door dat ze zichzelf beliegt en bedriegt?

http://www.wma.net/f/policy/c10.htm
Aucune grande religion ne prône cette pratique. Pour l'opinion médicale en général, la MGF est préjudiciable �* la santé physique et mentale de la femme et de la jeune fille. Pour beaucoup, c'est une forme d'oppression de la femme.
engels hier:
http://www.wma.net/e/policy/c10.htm

christenen in Egypte en Soedan doen het helaas even frequent als moslims

Dat eerste klopt zeker niet. Er zijn meerdere fatwa's van de bijzonder invloedrijke Egyptische rechtsschool die stellen dat vrouwenbesnijdenis zelfs te verkiezen is en dat het een traditie is die Mohammed heeft bekrachtigd.

Een andere bron:

The senior Islamic authority in Egypt, the Sheikh of Al-Azhar and the Mufti, have stated publicly on a number of occasions that this practice is not required by Islam.
http://www.state.gov/g/wi/rls/rep/crfgm/10096.htm
Egypt: Report on Female Genital Mutilation (FGM) or Female Genital Cutting (FGC)


[SIZE=2]Released by the Office of the Senior Coordinator for International Women's Issues[/SIZE]


[SIZE=2]Practice:
The most common forms of female genital mutilation (FGM) or female genital cutting (FGC) still widely practiced throughout Egypt are Type I (commonly referred to as clitoridectomy) and Type II (commonly referred to as excision). These practices are widespread but are even more prevalent in rural than urban areas. They are common among both Muslims and Coptic Christians. Type III (commonly referred to as infibulation, but in Egypt is referred to as "Sudanese circumcision") is found only among a few ethnic groups in the southern part of the country.
Incidence:
In 2000, the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) funded the fourth in a series of Demographic and Health Surveys (DHS) conducted in Egypt. This nationally representative survey of 15,648 ever-married women aged 15-49 found that the practice is nearly universal among women of reproductive age in Egypt. Preliminary analysis of the 2000 findings show that 97 percent of women surveyed have undergone one of these procedures, which represented no change from the 1995 DHS findings. The most severe form, Type III, is rare.
Data from the 2000 DHS shows some progress in terms of percentage of daughters (aged 11-19) of women surveyed who have undergone this procedure (78 percent in 2000 versus 83 percent in 1995) and in the intention of women surveyed to have their daughters undergo one of these procedures (31 percent in 2000 versus 38 percent in 1995).
The 1995 DHS survey (detailed data from the 2000 survey is not yet available) indicated that two-thirds of girls had the procedure when they were between the ages of seven and ten years. Fewer than five percent were under the age of five and fewer than three percent were over the age of 13.
Attitudes and Beliefs:
There is no doctrinal basis for this practice in either Islam or Christianity. Although high officials in both the Muslim and Christian religious establishments have voiced opposition to the practice, it is still supported by some local religious authorities. Moreover, many Egyptians believe that this is an important part of maintaining female chastity, which is part of religious tradition.
The historical roots of the practice date back thousands of years. According to the 1995 DHS findings, the most commonly given reason (58 percent) for supporting the practice was the belief that this was a "good tradition." Almost three-quarters of Egyptian women felt that husbands would prefer their wives to undergo the procedure. More than one-third cited cleanliness as a reason, while a smaller number saw it as a way to prevent promiscuity before marriage and unfaithfulness within the marriage.
The 2000 DHS also found that the majority of women think this practice should continue, though there was some decline in support for the practice (75 percent of women surveyed in 2000 versus 82 percent in 1995). There is spreading recognition of the many potential adverse health consequences of the practice, which has resulted in increasing resort to doctors rather than traditional birth attendants (TBAs) to perform the procedure.
One of the main factors behind the persistence of the practice is its social significance for females. In communities where it is practiced, a woman achieves recognition mainly through marriage and child bearing and many families refuse to accept as a marriage partner, a woman who has not undergone the procedure.
Type I, Type II and Type III:
These practices are widespread throughout Egypt. A recent clinical study indicated that 19 percent of the procedures involved only the excision (removal) of the prepuce (clitoral hood) with or without removal of a part or all of the clitoris (Type I). Sixty-four percent involved the excision (removal) of the prepuce (clitoral hood) and clitoris together with part or all of the labia minora (inner vaginal lips)(Type II). In eight percent of the cases, only the labia minora were removed.
Type III, the most harmful and dangerous form, is rarely practiced except among a few groups in the southern part of the country. Type III is the excision (removal) of part or all of the external genitalia (clitoris, labia minora and labia majora) and stitching or narrowing of the vaginal opening. Only a very small opening is left, about the diameter of a matchstick, to allow for the flow of urine and menstrual blood. Only one percent of the women in the study reported that the vaginal area was sewn closed at the time they had the procedure and two percent of their daughters’ procedure involved a closing of the vaginal area.
In the past, the majority of these procedures were performed by "dayas" (TBAs). However, according to the 1995 DHS survey, the use of medical practitioners (doctors or trained midwives) has tripled to 55 percent in recent years, with a concomitant drop in the use of "dayas."
The procedure is usually performed in the home, although before the 1996 ban (see legal status below) some procedures were done in private or government hospitals. It is likely that some physicians continue to carry out the procedure in their private clinics as well as in private homes. In a very few cases a male barber (three percent) or "gypsy" (seven percent) may also perform the procedure.
Among older women, the procedure generally was performed without any anesthetic. However, the same women reported that almost 75 percent of their daughters who had the procedure received either a general or local anesthetic. When the procedure is performed by a non-physician, the local anesthetic may or may not be applied effectively.
Legal Status:
The legislative background has changed over the years. In 1959, a ministerial decree forbade the practice and made it punishable by fine and imprisonment. A series of later ministerial decrees allowed certain forms but prohibited others. Doctors were also prohibited from performing the procedure in government health facilities. Non-medical practitioners were forbidden from practicing any form.
In 1994, due to public outcry over a CNN television broadcast of the procedure performed on a nine year old girl by a barber, the then-Minister of Health decreed that the procedure should be performed one day per week in government facilities but only by trained medical personnel, if they failed to persuade the parents against it. He rescinded his decision in 1995, however, after various protests and international outcry deploring the "medicalization" of the practice.
In December 1997, the Court of Cassation (Egypt’s highest appeals court) upheld a government ban on the practice of FGM/FGC. Issued as a decree by the Health Minister in 1996, the ban prohibits all medical and non-medical practitioners from performing FGM/FGC in either public or private facilities, except for medical reasons certified by the head of a hospital's obstetric department. We are unaware of any instance where this practice was certified. Perpetrators are subject to the loss of their medical licenses and can be subjected to criminal punishments. In cases of death, perpetrators are also subject to charges of manslaughter under the Penal Code.
There have been press reports on the prosecution of at least 13 individuals under the Penal Code, including doctors, midwives and barbers, accused of performing FGM/FGC that resulted in hemorrhage, shock and death. We cannot confirm these reports.
Outreach:
A number of non-governmental organizations (NGOs) exist in Egypt to combat this practice. A Task Force was formed under the aegis of the National Commission for Population and Development (an NGO) following the 1994 International Conference on Population and Development (ICPD). It is taking a leading role in addressing this issue and reaching the community through various local NGOs. The Task Force meets on a quarterly basis in different parts of Egypt and invites representatives from different local and international organizations that work in this area. The group targets mothers, clinics, family planning centers, secondary school students and young men and women workers. Members of the Task Force continue to teach, raise awareness about the issue and compare notes on successful strategies.
Current efforts have focused on community-based approaches and the Positive Deviance Approach that uses individuals who have deviated from tradition and stopped, prevented or oppose the practice, to advocate for change.
Other NGO activities in 2000 included several seminars on this practice by the National Commission for Population and Development and a seminar by the Population Council for NGOs, donors and researchers with the purpose of sharing experiences in the fight against this practice.
On the governmental level, in 1999 the Ministry of Social Affairs signed a project agreement with the United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF), the United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA) and the World Health Organization (WHO) to combat all practices harmful to women, including eradicating this practice by 2010.
In 1979, a seminar was held in Cairo called "Bodily Mutilation of Young Females". It brought together various representatives of the Arab League, UNICEF, WHO and ministries of the Egyptian government and passed resolutions opposing the practice. In 1982, a project was funded by the Population Crisis Committee and the Cairo Family Planning Association to carry out the 1979 resolutions. Educational materials were produced and training was carried out on the harmful effects of the practice for doctors, nurse, midwives and social workers.
The National Committee affiliated with the Inter-African Committee on Traditional Practices Affecting the Health of Women and Children (IAC) has been active since 1985. The Cairo Family Planning Association now works as the home of the Egyptian National Committee of the IAC. It has worked intensively to stop these practices. Activities focus on information and communication seminars and workshops that are designed to reach policy makers, community leaders, future mothers, nursing mothers, various male groups, health workers and TBAs.
The government and NGOs have used the mass media to disseminate information on the health risks of this practice. Government newspapers and magazines publish stories presenting the views of prominent figures in medicine and academia that oppose this practice. The government broadcasts television programs condemning this practice. Senior government officials, including the Minister of Health and Population, have appeared on television to discuss the issue as both a health issue and a religious issue.
The senior Islamic authority in Egypt, the Sheikh of Al-Azhar and the Mufti, have stated publicly on a number of occasions that this practice is not required by Islam. They have also declared the practice to be a question of health; if a doctor recommends against it, the procedure should not be performed. The leader of the Egyptian Coptic community, Pope Shenouda, has also stated publicly that this practice is not required for religious reasons. The discussion of this practice and its harmful health effects has been added to the curriculum in the school system.
In cooperation with the Egyptian government, USAID Cairo is currently carrying out the following efforts to eradicate this practice.
--The Population IV Project supports training on the hazards of this practice as part of reproductive health training programs for Ministry of Health and Population workers who provide family planning services through a network of 3,800 clinics in all 27 provinces.
--The "Healthy Mother/Healthy Child" project, which focuses on in-service training for physicians, nurses and social workers, includes anti-FGM/FGC activities. Recent activities included preparation of a short documentary video featuring testimonials against this practice by five women for use in group discussions, as well as an accompanying guide for facilitators. The Child Survival Project that preceded the "Healthy Mother/Healthy Child" project incorporated information on the hazards of the practice into training courses for TBAs who frequently perform the procedure. Between 1985 and 1996 approximately 14,000 traditional TBAs, located throughout Egypt, received this training.
--A USAID grant to the Research, Action and Information Network for Bodily Integrity of Women (RAINBO) supported work with Egypt’s FGM/FGC Task Force to develop training materials, including a manual with a major section on common beliefs and misconceptions about the practice, for community workers with a low level of literacy.
--USAID has provided funding to a UNICEF safe motherhood program with a major component on this practice; a Center for Development and Population Activities (CEDPA) project aimed at eradication of this practice in Fayyoum province and a project with CEDPA and the Coptic Evangelical Organization for Social Services to produce and air video programs on the harmful effects of this practice and the importance of eradicating the practice.
The U.S. Embassy’s Participating Agency Support Agreement program funded several workshops and publications for public awareness on this practice by the ISIS Center in Aswan in 1999-2000, as well as a series of health awareness workshops (including anti-FGM/FGC materials) for adolescent girls by the Egyptian Women’s Medical Association in 2000.
Egyptian activists working on the subject are beginning to shift efforts from an approach based on health concerns (that appears to have caused parents to resort increasingly to doctors rather than TBAs to perform the procedure), to one based on bodily integrity and women’s status. Activists also are focusing on transforming the attitudes of entire communities rather than just of individuals, due to families’ continuing concern about marriageability for their daughters.
The Coptic Evangelical Association for Social Services is one NGO that has had success with focusing on eradicating this practice one village at a time.
Protection:
The government remains committed to eradicating this practice and is supportive of the many efforts of Egyptian and international NGOs in this regard. The issue of protection does not arise often as girls are subjected to this practice at a young age (generally age seven to twelve).
Prepared by the Office of the Senior Coordinator for International Women's Issues, Office of the Under Secretary for Global Affairs, U.S. Department of State, June 2001
[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]Released on June 1, 2001[/SIZE]

Absoluut. Precies alsof er aparte tribunalen voor alle soorten misdrijven zouden moeten bestaan.

Wat dus gewoon betekent dat er geen eenstemmigheid is binnen de islam. Er zijn zowel groepen die vrouwenbesnijdenis wel islamitisch achten, andere niet. Bijgevolg is uw eerdere stelling niet correct.

Jan van den Berghe,
niet liegen, dat mag niet!!!


Een andere bron:
en géén uit de context gerukte zin:
The senior Islamic authority in Egypt, the Sheikh of Al-Azhar and the Mufti, have stated publicly on a number of occasions that this practice is not required by Islam.
http://www.state.gov/g/wi/rls/rep/crfgm/10096.htm
Egypt: Report on Female Genital Mutilation (FGM) or Female Genital Cutting (FGC)[SIZE=2]Released by the Office of the Senior Coordinator for International Women's Issues[/SIZE]


[SIZE=2]Practice:
The most common forms of female genital mutilation (FGM) or female genital cutting (FGC) still widely practiced throughout Egypt are Type I (commonly referred to as clitoridectomy) and Type II (commonly referred to as excision). These practices are widespread but are even more prevalent in rural than urban areas. They are common among both Muslims and Coptic Christians. Type III (commonly referred to as infibulation, but in Egypt is referred to as "Sudanese circumcision") is found only among a few ethnic groups in the southern part of the country.
Incidence:
In 2000, the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) funded the fourth in a series of Demographic and Health Surveys (DHS) conducted in Egypt. This nationally representative survey of 15,648 ever-married women aged 15-49 found that the practice is nearly universal among women of reproductive age in Egypt. Preliminary analysis of the 2000 findings show that 97 percent of women surveyed have undergone one of these procedures, which represented no change from the 1995 DHS findings. The most severe form, Type III, is rare.
Data from the 2000 DHS shows some progress in terms of percentage of daughters (aged 11-19) of women surveyed who have undergone this procedure (78 percent in 2000 versus 83 percent in 1995) and in the intention of women surveyed to have their daughters undergo one of these procedures (31 percent in 2000 versus 38 percent in 1995).
The 1995 DHS survey (detailed data from the 2000 survey is not yet available) indicated that two-thirds of girls had the procedure when they were between the ages of seven and ten years. Fewer than five percent were under the age of five and fewer than three percent were over the age of 13.
Attitudes and Beliefs:
There is no doctrinal basis for this practice in either Islam or Christianity. Although high officials in both the Muslim and Christian religious establishments have voiced opposition to the practice, it is still supported by some local religious authorities. Moreover, many Egyptians believe that this is an important part of maintaining female chastity, which is part of religious tradition.
The historical roots of the practice date back thousands of years. According to the 1995 DHS findings, the most commonly given reason (58 percent) for supporting the practice was the belief that this was a "good tradition." Almost three-quarters of Egyptian women felt that husbands would prefer their wives to undergo the procedure. More than one-third cited cleanliness as a reason, while a smaller number saw it as a way to prevent promiscuity before marriage and unfaithfulness within the marriage.
The 2000 DHS also found that the majority of women think this practice should continue, though there was some decline in support for the practice (75 percent of women surveyed in 2000 versus 82 percent in 1995). There is spreading recognition of the many potential adverse health consequences of the practice, which has resulted in increasing resort to doctors rather than traditional birth attendants (TBAs) to perform the procedure.
One of the main factors behind the persistence of the practice is its social significance for females. In communities where it is practiced, a woman achieves recognition mainly through marriage and child bearing and many families refuse to accept as a marriage partner, a woman who has not undergone the procedure.
Type I, Type II and Type III:
These practices are widespread throughout Egypt. A recent clinical study indicated that 19 percent of the procedures involved only the excision (removal) of the prepuce (clitoral hood) with or without removal of a part or all of the clitoris (Type I). Sixty-four percent involved the excision (removal) of the prepuce (clitoral hood) and clitoris together with part or all of the labia minora (inner vaginal lips)(Type II). In eight percent of the cases, only the labia minora were removed.
Type III, the most harmful and dangerous form, is rarely practiced except among a few groups in the southern part of the country. Type III is the excision (removal) of part or all of the external genitalia (clitoris, labia minora and labia majora) and stitching or narrowing of the vaginal opening. Only a very small opening is left, about the diameter of a matchstick, to allow for the flow of urine and menstrual blood. Only one percent of the women in the study reported that the vaginal area was sewn closed at the time they had the procedure and two percent of their daughters’ procedure involved a closing of the vaginal area.
In the past, the majority of these procedures were performed by "dayas" (TBAs). However, according to the 1995 DHS survey, the use of medical practitioners (doctors or trained midwives) has tripled to 55 percent in recent years, with a concomitant drop in the use of "dayas."
The procedure is usually performed in the home, although before the 1996 ban (see legal status below) some procedures were done in private or government hospitals. It is likely that some physicians continue to carry out the procedure in their private clinics as well as in private homes. In a very few cases a male barber (three percent) or "gypsy" (seven percent) may also perform the procedure.
Among older women, the procedure generally was performed without any anesthetic. However, the same women reported that almost 75 percent of their daughters who had the procedure received either a general or local anesthetic. When the procedure is performed by a non-physician, the local anesthetic may or may not be applied effectively.
Legal Status:
The legislative background has changed over the years. In 1959, a ministerial decree forbade the practice and made it punishable by fine and imprisonment. A series of later ministerial decrees allowed certain forms but prohibited others. Doctors were also prohibited from performing the procedure in government health facilities. Non-medical practitioners were forbidden from practicing any form.
In 1994, due to public outcry over a CNN television broadcast of the procedure performed on a nine year old girl by a barber, the then-Minister of Health decreed that the procedure should be performed one day per week in government facilities but only by trained medical personnel, if they failed to persuade the parents against it. He rescinded his decision in 1995, however, after various protests and international outcry deploring the "medicalization" of the practice.
In December 1997, the Court of Cassation (Egypt’s highest appeals court) upheld a government ban on the practice of FGM/FGC. Issued as a decree by the Health Minister in 1996, the ban prohibits all medical and non-medical practitioners from performing FGM/FGC in either public or private facilities, except for medical reasons certified by the head of a hospital's obstetric department. We are unaware of any instance where this practice was certified. Perpetrators are subject to the loss of their medical licenses and can be subjected to criminal punishments. In cases of death, perpetrators are also subject to charges of manslaughter under the Penal Code.
There have been press reports on the prosecution of at least 13 individuals under the Penal Code, including doctors, midwives and barbers, accused of performing FGM/FGC that resulted in hemorrhage, shock and death. We cannot confirm these reports.
Outreach:
A number of non-governmental organizations (NGOs) exist in Egypt to combat this practice. A Task Force was formed under the aegis of the National Commission for Population and Development (an NGO) following the 1994 International Conference on Population and Development (ICPD). It is taking a leading role in addressing this issue and reaching the community through various local NGOs. The Task Force meets on a quarterly basis in different parts of Egypt and invites representatives from different local and international organizations that work in this area. The group targets mothers, clinics, family planning centers, secondary school students and young men and women workers. Members of the Task Force continue to teach, raise awareness about the issue and compare notes on successful strategies.
Current efforts have focused on community-based approaches and the Positive Deviance Approach that uses individuals who have deviated from tradition and stopped, prevented or oppose the practice, to advocate for change.
Other NGO activities in 2000 included several seminars on this practice by the National Commission for Population and Development and a seminar by the Population Council for NGOs, donors and researchers with the purpose of sharing experiences in the fight against this practice.
On the governmental level, in 1999 the Ministry of Social Affairs signed a project agreement with the United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF), the United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA) and the World Health Organization (WHO) to combat all practices harmful to women, including eradicating this practice by 2010.
In 1979, a seminar was held in Cairo called "Bodily Mutilation of Young Females". It brought together various representatives of the Arab League, UNICEF, WHO and ministries of the Egyptian government and passed resolutions opposing the practice. In 1982, a project was funded by the Population Crisis Committee and the Cairo Family Planning Association to carry out the 1979 resolutions. Educational materials were produced and training was carried out on the harmful effects of the practice for doctors, nurse, midwives and social workers.
The National Committee affiliated with the Inter-African Committee on Traditional Practices Affecting the Health of Women and Children (IAC) has been active since 1985. The Cairo Family Planning Association now works as the home of the Egyptian National Committee of the IAC. It has worked intensively to stop these practices. Activities focus on information and communication seminars and workshops that are designed to reach policy makers, community leaders, future mothers, nursing mothers, various male groups, health workers and TBAs.
The government and NGOs have used the mass media to disseminate information on the health risks of this practice. Government newspapers and magazines publish stories presenting the views of prominent figures in medicine and academia that oppose this practice. The government broadcasts television programs condemning this practice. Senior government officials, including the Minister of Health and Population, have appeared on television to discuss the issue as both a health issue and a religious issue.
The senior Islamic authority in Egypt, the Sheikh of Al-Azhar and the Mufti, have stated publicly on a number of occasions that this practice is not required by Islam. They have also declared the practice to be a question of health; if a doctor recommends against it, the procedure should not be performed. The leader of the Egyptian Coptic community, Pope Shenouda, has also stated publicly that this practice is not required for religious reasons. The discussion of this practice and its harmful health effects has been added to the curriculum in the school system.
In cooperation with the Egyptian government, USAID Cairo is currently carrying out the following efforts to eradicate this practice.
--The Population IV Project supports training on the hazards of this practice as part of reproductive health training programs for Ministry of Health and Population workers who provide family planning services through a network of 3,800 clinics in all 27 provinces.
--The "Healthy Mother/Healthy Child" project, which focuses on in-service training for physicians, nurses and social workers, includes anti-FGM/FGC activities. Recent activities included preparation of a short documentary video featuring testimonials against this practice by five women for use in group discussions, as well as an accompanying guide for facilitators. The Child Survival Project that preceded the "Healthy Mother/Healthy Child" project incorporated information on the hazards of the practice into training courses for TBAs who frequently perform the procedure. Between 1985 and 1996 approximately 14,000 traditional TBAs, located throughout Egypt, received this training.
--A USAID grant to the Research, Action and Information Network for Bodily Integrity of Women (RAINBO) supported work with Egypt’s FGM/FGC Task Force to develop training materials, including a manual with a major section on common beliefs and misconceptions about the practice, for community workers with a low level of literacy.
--USAID has provided funding to a UNICEF safe motherhood program with a major component on this practice; a Center for Development and Population Activities (CEDPA) project aimed at eradication of this practice in Fayyoum province and a project with CEDPA and the Coptic Evangelical Organization for Social Services to produce and air video programs on the harmful effects of this practice and the importance of eradicating the practice.
The U.S. Embassy’s Participating Agency Support Agreement program funded several workshops and publications for public awareness on this practice by the ISIS Center in Aswan in 1999-2000, as well as a series of health awareness workshops (including anti-FGM/FGC materials) for adolescent girls by the Egyptian Women’s Medical Association in 2000.
Egyptian activists working on the subject are beginning to shift efforts from an approach based on health concerns (that appears to have caused parents to resort increasingly to doctors rather than TBAs to perform the procedure), to one based on bodily integrity and women’s status. Activists also are focusing on transforming the attitudes of entire communities rather than just of individuals, due to families’ continuing concern about marriageability for their daughters.
The Coptic Evangelical Association for Social Services is one NGO that has had success with focusing on eradicating this practice one village at a time.
Protection:
The government remains committed to eradicating this practice and is supportive of the many efforts of Egyptian and international NGOs in this regard. The issue of protection does not arise often as girls are subjected to this practice at a young age (generally age seven to twelve).
Prepared by the Office of the Senior Coordinator for International Women's Issues, Office of the Under Secretary for Global Affairs, U.S. Department of State, June 2001
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[SIZE=2]Released on June 1, 2001[/SIZE]

Zonder enige twijfel. Dat clubje probeert ons constant voor te liegen dat alle problemen met m*******n aan ons te wijten zijn, nogal logisch dat we dat niet meer pikken.
Vergelijk het met een Centrum voor Verkrachters en Pedofielen waar ze over de weerzin van de samenleving tov hen kunnen komen klagen. Dat Centrum legt dan de schuld bij de meisjes met korte rokjes en de kinderen zelf.
Ik zou wel eens willen zien hoeveel klachten daar door allochtonen zelf worden ingediend, die houden zich daar niet mee bezig hoor, kunnen doppen en hun vrouwen in de kelder kunnen opsluiten is voor hen voldoende als sociale betrokkenheid. Kijk maar naar hun fameus stemrecht, de sossen wreven zich al in de handjes over de bruingetinte stemmen maar slechts een handvol heeft zich ingeschreven. Dikke streep door de rekening....

Het CGR zet aan tot geweld. De allochtonen denken nu dat ze alles ongestraft mogen en de autochtonen raken uiteraard meer en meer gefrustreed, met alle noodlottige gevolgen vandien.

Oef, de boodschap dringt eindelijk door.

Ik vind het zeer merkwaardig dat de media zich nooit afvraagt WAAROM er wederzijds meer racisme en onverdraagzaamheid is. Inderdaad, voor hen een zéér gevaarlijke onderzoek.

Ik hoor altijd zeggen dat we verdraagzamer moeten zijn. Ik hoor nooit een oproep om je VERDRAAGZAMER TE GEDRAGEN. Begrijpelijk, want dan ligt de bal in het kamp van de CGR beschermelingen die de meest elementaire gedragsregels nog moeten leren.
Mijn ONDERVINDING.

Misschien beter effen informeren bij Ayaan Hirsi.

Alle kritiek op rechts of extreem-rechts wordt in Nederland demonisatie genoemd. Dat is ook de truuk die het VB altijd toepast: wat er ook gebeurt, zij zijn altijd het slachtoffer (ook nu nav de moorden van HVT).

Over welk rapport heb je het? En bovendien, als er een algemene kritiek op politici wordt gegeven, dan betekent dat niet dat er niet één of een paar politici kunnen tussen zitten waarvoor die kritiek niet geldt natuurlijk. Net zoals één Indonesiër in je partij, niet bewijst dat je niet racistisch bent.

Ik ben blij dat je nu ook inziet dat het asielbeleid niet zo simpel is. Kenia staat op de lijst van "veilige landen" (dat zijn dus landen waar geen reden zou zijn om uit te vluchten), een lijst waarop de overheid zich baseert voor het al dan niet ontvankelijk verklaren van een aanvraag voor politiek asiel (daarom heeft ze gezegd dat ze uit Somalië kwam, dat niet op die lijst staat). Nu, op die lijst staan heel wat betwijfelenswaardige landen waar het wel degelijk niet zo vrij leven is. Dat is dan ook één van de vele kritieken op het asielbeleid.

Het lijkt er bovendien ook dat zij in ieder geval niet gevlucht is omdat ze vervolgd zou worden omwille van politieke overtuiging of omwille van een gedwongen huwelijk, en dat ze dus - zoals zoveel andere asielzoekers - gewoon naar Nederland is gevlucht in de hoop op een beter leven (en nee, zij behoorde ook niet tot de allerarmsten in Kenia).

Ik ontken nergens dat ze de Islam kent zoals die haar is geleerd in Somalië en nadien in Kenia. Maar daarmee ken je "de" Islam niet. Er zijn immers enorm veel verschillen in de beleving van die Islam, net zoals dat in het christendom is.

Er is geen enkele partij die ontkent dat er een probleem is met de radicalisatie van een deel van de moslims. Geen enkele partij tolereert de politieke Islam. Een radicale moslim is helemaal geen slachtoffer van racisme. Het VB mag op radicale moslims kritiek geven, maar als het alle moslims over dezelfde kam scheert, dan prediken ze haat tegenover moslims. En daar wordt terecht op gewezen. Het VB daarentegen erkent echter nooit dat er een probleem is met radicale VB'ers, ondanks de feiten.

Die vraag zal er ook nooit komen. Dat druist in tegen hun eigen partijprogramma van de loge.