Elektrische auto - even verder gekeken.

[Bartjeuh]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Johan Daelemans

Alle democratieën zijn anders.
Die in België is van het ergste soort.

Wat doe je hier dan nog?
Als die van Frankrijk van een minder erge soort was, waarom ben je er dan niet gebleven?

[Micele]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Johan Daelemans

Kan je dat nog eens eenvoudig uitleggen?
Die kwaliteit 2017-2018 bedoel ik.

Oh simpel p/c:

http://cleantechnica.com/2013/09/19/...ion-batteries/
September 19th, 2013

New Tesla Patent: 400-Mile Battery Pack Using Metal-Air & Lithium-Ion Batteries



Tesla Motors is exclusively an electric car maker, with Elon Musk expressing disdain for cars like the Chevy Volt and BMW i3, which pack gas-powered range-extenders. But Tesla may be working on a different kind of hybrid; a hybrid battery pack that could extend the range of cars like the Tesla Model S by up to 40%, allowing for 400 miles of driving between charges.

A report by Global Equities Research shows that Tesla recently filed patents 20130187591 and 20130181511, which describe a combination lithium-ion and metal-air battery pack. This hybrid battery pack would primarily use the lithium-ion side, only drawing power from the metal-air battery pack on extended journeys. Metal-air batteries, which use oxygen as an electrode, have a shorter lifetime when exposed to regular charging, but use more common elements like zinc or aluminum that drastically reduce battery costs.

Drivers would use the lithium-ion battery for daily use, and would either select the secondary battery, or have it automatically switch over on extended trips. A hybrid battery of this type could offer Tesla customers greater driving ranges, while not drastically increasing costs. There’s also mention of a mode whereby the metal-air battery would charge the lithium-ion battery, which powers the car’s systems. 95% of driving consist of short jaunts no more than 90 miles per day, but the option of going 400 or more miles on a single charge could open up the world of electric vehicles to a much wider audience.

For now though, Tesla will still rely on Panasonic for batteries, as they have a four-year, 80,000 unit contract with the Japanese tech giant. But going forward from there, who’s to say Tesla doesn’t deploy ground-breaking battery technology of its own? This could be a peek at the future, folks.

Source: Benzinga
http://www.benzinga.com/analyst-rati...hybrid-battery

~ 400 miles met een vol accupack is een stijging van de huidige reikwijdte met:

Electric range 85 kW·h
265 mi (426 km) (EPA)
300 mi (480 km) (Tesla Motors)
310 mi (500 km) (NEDC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_S

Rekenen kan je toch nog hé. Tesla meent 40 % meer reikwijdte in die tekst. Is zowat het gemiddelde van EPA+Tesla + 40 %, of (265+300)/2 = 282,5 + 40 % = 395,5 mi
Men kan het zeker meer kwaliteit noemen of meer prijs-kwaliteit, afwachten tot 2017-2018 wat de juiste cijfers en resultaten worden.

Patent 20130187591:

http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...DN/20130187591
United States Patent Application 20130187591

Stewart; Sarah G. ; et al. July 25, 2013
Electric Vehicle Extended Range Hybrid Battery Pack System

Abstract
A power source comprised of a first battery pack (e.g., a non-metal-air battery pack) and a second battery pack (e.g., a metal-air battery pack) is provided, wherein the second battery pack is only used as required by the state-of-charge (SOC) of the first battery pack or as a result of the user selecting an extended range mode of operation. Minimizing use of the second battery pack prevents it from undergoing unnecessary, and potentially lifetime limiting, charge cycles. The second battery pack may be used to charge the first battery pack or used in combination with the first battery pack to supply operational power to the electric vehicle.

Patent 20130181511:
http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...DN/20130181511

Maar voor alle zekerheid - moest je nog vragen hebben - geef ik een link naar de huidige 257 patenten van Tesla Motors (die wekelijks aangepast worden) gewoon Tesla Motors Patents in google ingeven:

http://stks.freshpatents.com/Tesla-Motors-Inc-nm1.php (249+8) of spec. van 2009-2014 onderaan te selecteren

Hier vind je ze ook:
http://www.faqs.org/patents/assignee/tesla-motors-inc/

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/all-...are-belong-you

Dit waren de 4 eerste links bij het googlen op Tesla Motors Patents:
https://www.google.be/search?q=tesla...m=122&ie=UTF-8
simpel toch

Edit aja met de termijn 2017-2018 ben ik heel voorzichtig want volgens de originele link of geruchten kan Tesla al in 2015 het patent uittesten of min of meer klaar hebben.

http://www.benzinga.com/analyst-rati...hybrid-battery
...

Chowdhry also theorized that Tesla would offer a "hybrid mode" where both batteries work together. In this mode, the lithium-ion battery would power the drive train, while the metal-air battery would charge the lithium-ion battery.

While nothing official has been announced, Chowdhry estimated that the battery could be ready for new Tesla vehicles in 2015.

When asked how this might impact Panasonic (OTC: PCRFY), which has a four-year contract to deliver battery cells for 80,000 Tesla vehicles, Chowdhry said that he does not expect Panasonic to build these batteries. He does not think that Samsung (OTC: SSNLF) will build the metal-air batteries either.

"I don't think Panasonic or even Samsung could be a leader in the metal-air battery [production]," Chowdhry told Benzinga. "I think there could be some other players, [but] we don't know who it is."

After metal-air batteries infiltrate the market, Chowdhry said that the need for lithium-ion batteries could be greatly reduced. Instead of commanding 100 percent of the electric car market (as they do today), Chowdhry theorized that lithium-ion batteries will one day account for 60 percent of the market. The remaining 40 percent would go to metal-air batteries.

While this could reduce Panasonic's chances of securing another major contract with Tesla, Chowdhry thinks that Panasonic could still provide innovation with new lithium-ion batteries.

Read more: http://www.benzinga.com/analyst-rati...#ixzz3AAPAtn4C

Wie de Metaal-lucht accucellen gaat leveren is afwachten.

[Micele]

vervolg, men hoort zoveel geruchten ttz claims van die "*metaal"-lucht accu´s, zelfs van 1800 km spreken ze: (*aluminium, zink #, ... ?)

Maar hoe zit het met de energiecapaciteit na pakweg 1000 of 2000 volledige laadcyclussen ?

http://www.iflscience.com/technology...thout-recharge

TECHNOLOGY

New Metal-Air Battery Drives Car 1800Km Without Recharge

June 9, 2014 | by Stephen Luntz


Photo credit: Phinergy's *aluminum-air battery uses oxygen from the air instead of storing it in a cathode

Israeli company Phinergy claim to have produced a battery that can power a Citroen C1 for 3000km, and have # demonstrated # a 1800km drive with a more practical version, three times that available from commercial electric cars. Even more dramatically, the battery weighs just 100kg, a fifth of the weight of those in the Tesla Model S.

Metal-air batteries use the oxygen in the air around them, rather than storing it in liquid or solid chemicals. They can store far more energy than most competing technologies. Not needing to contain the oxygen can also cut the weight dramatically – Phinergy claim that 70% of the weight in a conventional car battery is in the cathode, mostly just to store the oxygen.

With such benefits, metal-air batteries have been a topic of research for some time. Lithium-air batteries have theoretical energy per weight almost as high as petrol. However, a range of practical problems have prevented widespread commercialization.

Aluminum-air batteries don't have the same potential energy per kilogram of lithium-air battery, but could theoretically reach energy densities many times better than the lithium-ion batteries that are currently the industry standard.

One of the challenges for metal-air batteries is to capture enough oxygen to provide the power required. Phinergy's porous electrodes have the surface area to allow this. A silver-based catalyst prevents carbon dioxide from permeating the electrodes, a common problem for other experimental versions of this technology that reduces their lifespan to the point of impracticality.

Like anything based on aluminum, there is a lot of embodied energy in Phinergy's batteries, but they are manufacturing their products in Quebec, where the electricity is almost entirely sourced from hydroelectric stations, keeping the carbon footprint small.

The big disadvantage of aluminum-air batteries is that they don't last. The aluminum turns to aluminum-hydroxide. While this can be recycled, it can't be recharged by plugging the battery into a powerpoint. Instead the whole battery will need to be replaced when the aluminum has been used up. Advocates of this system claim that battery swaps can be done quickly and easily.



However, any battery that needs to be replaced so frequently is not only expensive, but runs into the problem that has bedeviled many alternatives to gasoline-powered cars. People are reluctant to buy vehicles that depend on the availability of refueling or replacement stations if these are not available everywhere they might be needed. On the other hand, without a critical mass of owners of suitable vehicles, such stations are not viable.

By extending the capacity of the electric car to drive much further on a single charge, aluminum-air batteries greatly reduce this problem when it comes to quick recharge points, but at the cost of increasing the need to be able to access places where batteries can be replaced.

Phinergy's solution is to use a twin battery solution. A small lithium-ion battery will allow trips up to 50km, more than adequate for most city journeys. The aluminum-air battery will be saved for longer trips, avoiding the need to replace it except where the car is used for frequent long journeys. If the whole battery was aluminum-air the car's maximum range might be as much as 3000km, but with the need to replace the entire engine thereafter.

Even if these problems have been successfully addressed, it remains to be seen whether Phinergy have found a solution to the other major obstacle to aluminum-air batteries, the high cost of the anode.

A # zinc-air battery could potentially# offer even more advantages but has been hard to mass produce. Phyinergy claim they are on the way to commercializing that as well.

Read more at http://www.iflscience.com/technology...HdE1Ip3yDZo.99

Lijkt richting hybridepack van Tesla, de Li-ions voor de power (accelleratie of bergop of ... , de Al-lucht neemt onmiddellijk over voor te bollen op het vlakke of wind vanachter.

# #

http://www.wfs.org/blogs/len-rosen/n...thout-recharge

New Aluminum-Air Battery Powered Car Travels 1,800 Miles Without a Recharge

Posted on June 5, 2014

Back in April of 2012 I wrote about the evolution of battery technology for electric cars. In the posting I wrote about lithium-ion and lithium-air technology. What I didn't know was that a company named Phinergy was working on a different type of metal-air battery using aluminum and zinc plus air.

This week Phinergy, an Israeli company, along with the aluminum giant, Alcoa Canada, demonstrated an electric vehicle (EV) capable of driving 1,800 kilometers (over 1,100 miles between charges) using a combination of aluminum-air and lithium-ion storage technologies. The Phinergy aluminum-air battery at 100 kilograms (220 pounds) weight contained enough on board energy to allow the vehicle to travel up to 3,000 kilometers (over 1,860 miles). Compare that to the best, current lithium-ion batteries in the Tesla Model S sedan. At best they can do less than 500 kilometers (310 miles) on a single charge and the on board battery weighs 5 times as much.

How does an aluminum-air battery work? They use an air-electrode capable of breathing ambient air and extracting the oxygen from it. Compare this to traditional batteries which store and release oxygen from chemicals contained in a liquied or solid cathode. An air battery doesn't need to replace or recharge its cathode. And an air battery is far lighter. The combination means significantly more power for a longer period of time.

[afbeelding phinergy-aluminum-air-battery-2]

Phinergy batteries use a porous electrode with a large surface area that captures the oxygen from ambient air. The electrode also contains a silver-based catalyst that doesn't let CO2 interact with it. This unique and proprietary catalyst solves a common problem in air-battery technology, carbonization caused by CO2 permeating the electrode.

To make the aluminum-air battery even more economical they are produced in areas where electrical energy capacity and cost is low. In the case of the demonstration EV this week, the battery was forged at the Alcoa smelter in Baie-Comeau, Quebec where the company can draw on a significant hydroelectric power resource.

Aluminum-air batteries do break down over time. As they drain the metal turns into aluminum hydroxide. When spent the entire battery can be recycled to forge new aluminum-air batteries. For the air-battery operator it will mean swapping out the old battery for a new one every few months. This could be done at service centres which would keep an inventory of these batteries in supply. Tesla demonstrated its plans for charging and swap out service centres back in July of last year. In the Tesla demo the battery was swapped out in 90 seconds. So this notion of a quick battery replacement service that is as fast as refilling a conventional gas or diesel tank seems very doable.


In the case of the test car # demonstrated at the Canadian International Aluminum Conference on Wednesday in Montreal, it was outfitted with both an aluminum-air and lithium-ion battery system. The notion behind this was that the EV could run on its lithium-ion charge when driving on short urban trips of 50 kilometers (31 miles) or less, but when used for longer trips the aluminum-air battery would kick in. To feed the chemical reaction from the aluminum-air battery drivers using a test car like this would add tap water every month or two to feed the chemical reaction.

Phinergy is also experimenting with other metal-air technologies. They have developed a zinc-air battery that has some advantages over aluminum. Zinc-air is extremely durable. A battery can last thousands of hours without chemical deterioration.

The company hopes to see metal-air batteries made with aluminum and zinc become the primary storage devices for transportation, for backing up renewable power sites, for electronic devices and for industry and defense.

link#:

http://www.ciacmontreal.com/




CIAC: MISSION ACCOMPLISHED !
The first edition of the Canadian International Aluminium Conference held last June 2nd - 4th clearly reached its objectives. The participants, in the hundreds, succeeded in rallying the industry. The exchanges, at the most senior level, were supported by 60 speakers who intervened on 11 expert panels and 9 keynote presentations. Lastly, the special presentations by SORA, Phinergy and Regal took us to the leading edge. As one, we had the opportunity to examine and exchange all aspects of the aluminium industry and to pave new avenues towards the future. Thank you to all for having contributed to its success!

ooit gaan we nog hard lachen met die fossiele auto´s.... ik vrees er niet voor hoor.

[Johan Daelemans]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Bartjeuh

Wat doe je hier dan nog?
Als die van Frankrijk van een minder erge soort was, waarom ben je er dan niet gebleven?

Om de vuiligheid die onze federale dienst financiën over mijn gezin heeft gekippert op te lossen.
Zie hier:
http://forum.politics.be/showthread.php?t=191115

Zijn we nog enkele jaren zoet mee.
Van zodra mijn centen terug op mijn rekening staan zien we wel.

In mijn normaal planning had ik nu opleidingen ULM-piloot gegeven in Frankrijk.

Ja, soms heeft domheid en oneerlijkheid van mensen nogal kwalijke gevolgen.
Niet te geloven dat er zo'n artiesten ook bij de overheid werken.

[Johan Daelemans]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Micele

ooit gaan we nog hard lachen met die fossiele auto´s.... ik vrees er niet voor hoor.

Dat hoop ik ook. Ik vrees alleen dat de gewone man nog een hele tijd gaat moeten wachten.

[Bartjeuh]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Johan Daelemans

Om de vuiligheid die onze federale dienst financiën over mijn gezin heeft gekippert op te lossen.
Zie hier:
http://forum.politics.be/showthread.php?t=191115

Ik blijf dit een warrig verhaal vinden, dat bovendien op een heel vreemde manier in die draad aangebracht wordt. Je zou bijna denken dat het van A tot Z verzonnen is, als een inkleding voor een roep om aandacht...

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Johan Daelemans

Niet te geloven dat er zo'n artiesten ook bij de overheid werken.

Er werken in België meer dan 1.000.000 mensen voor allerlei overheden, dus daar zal ook wel flink wat kaf tussen zitten. Kan statistisch haast niet anders.

[Johan Daelemans]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Bartjeuh

Je zou bijna denken dat het van A tot Z verzonnen is,

Dan heb je volgens mij heel over aardig wat officiële documenten overgekeken.
Nu, vandaag weten we hoe alles in zijn werk is gegaan en Vlaanderen krijgt het hele verhaal wel te lezen.
Van A tot Z....

[Johan Daelemans]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Bartjeuh

Er werken in België meer dan 1.000.000 mensen voor allerlei overheden, dus daar zal ook wel flink wat kaf tussen zitten. Kan statistisch haast niet anders.

Akkoord, dat kan je niet vermijden.
Wat wel straf is dat je heel de ladder mag opklimmen tot bij de top van financiën zonder iemand te vinden die de moeite doet om die rotzooi op te lossen.
Het is niet moeilijk hoor. Je laat persoon A contact opnemen met persoon B , stuurt wat documenten door en het is opgelost.
Zo simpel is het en het gebeurt niet. Waarom? Goeie vraag.

[Bartjeuh]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Johan Daelemans

Vlaanderen krijgt het hele verhaal wel te lezen.
Van A tot Z....

Dan breng je het hopelijk stukken gestructureerder, compacter en geloofwaardiger dan op dit forum. Of Vlaanderen valt halverwege in een diepe slaap...

[Johan Daelemans]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Bartjeuh

Dan breng je het hopelijk stukken gestructureerder, compacter en geloofwaardiger dan op dit forum. Of Vlaanderen valt halverwege in een diepe slaap...

Met wat hulp gaat het lezen als een trein. Ik ben veel maar een journalist ben ik niet.