"soldaten moeten sterven, en niet levend terugkomen"

[styllo_ben]

Nadat op 17 oktober het Turks parlement de regering de toestemming gaf om Noord-Irak binnen te vallen, organiseerde de PKK op 21 oktober een raid op een Turkse militaire post om aan te tonen dat ze de Turkse agressie zouden weerstaan en zich niet overgeven. Die raid is één van de dodelijkste geweest die Turkije sinds 1999 te verwerken kreeg.

Om de boodschap duidelijk te maken nam de PKK ook 8 Turkse soldaten gevangen.

Vorige week zijn deze 8 vrijgelaten dankzij tussenkomsten van Koerdische parlementsleden uit Turkije om een vreedzame oplossing van de Koerden kwestie een kans te geven. De bedoeling was de 'hearts and minds' van de Turken te winnen.

Gelukt?

lees zelf maar:

Cold welcome for freed Turkish soldiers

[SIZE=2]By Sarah Rainsford
BBC News, Istanbul

[/SIZE]


The release of eight soldiers after two weeks held hostage by the PKK has not been celebrated in Turkey.
Turkey has massed soldiers on the border with Iraq

Some here have branded them cowards - even traitors.
Justice Minister Mehmet Ali Sahin told an audience at Ankara University on Monday that he could not be entirely happy about the soldiers' release.
They were captured in an ambush by the PKK close to the Iraqi border on 21 October. Twelve other soldiers were killed in what was the worst clash of its kind with Kurdish separatists in many years.
"No member of the Turkish armed forces should have found themselves in such a situation," the minister began.
"As a Turkish citizen I cannot accept the fact that they went with the terrorists that night. Our soldier is prepared to die if necessary when he is protecting the country."
'Shame!'
The soldiers' families kept a very low profile while their sons were held hostage. The justice minister's statement prompted one mother to break her silence.

The military did not want this debated in public, because people had already started asking questions about how the hell it happened


Mehmet Ali Birand
Turkish columnist

"Why is our family honour being trampled upon just because my son was taken hostage?" demanded Aynur Atakul in one Turkish newspaper.
"I sent my son to his military service in a dignified manner. Would it have been better if he had died there?"
Many comments left on the webpage of Hurriyet, Turkey's most widely-read newspaper, suggest precisely that.
"Shame, shame, what shame! Eight weak soldiers. I wish they had stood and fought and become martyrs," reads one typical entry.
"What were they doing when their comrades were martyred beside them? If I were them I would be unable to look anyone in the face after this," says another.
There are only a few expressions of sympathy with the hostages.
Barely a mention
The October ambush itself sparked mass street protests across Turkey against the PKK, which is recognised as a terrorist organisation by the United States and the European Union.
PKK fighters strike Turkey from bases in northern Iraq

When the coffins of the 12 soldiers were returned home, huge crowds turned out for their funerals. Newspapers and the airwaves were filled with calls for revenge strikes against PKK bases inside Northern Iraq.
But the eight missing men barely got a mention.
And when their release came, the official announcement - like that of their capture - was terse.
"During an armed clash with the PKK terror organization communication was cut with eight members of the Turkish Armed Forces," read a statement on the Chief of Staff's website.
"As of 4 November 2007 those eight soldiers have rejoined the Turkish Armed Forces," it read.
Unlike recent hostage crises involving Israeli and British military members, here in Turkey the government, military and media played this one very low-key.
One explanation is concern, in the current nationalistic climate, about the potential for clashes between Turks and Kurds in Turkish cities.
But some read more into the near-silence.
"The reflex of the mainstream press here is to turn a blind eye to anything they see as humiliating to national pride," explains Burak Bekdil, of the Turkish Daily News.
"The military did not want this debated in public, because people had already started asking questions about how the hell it happened," says respected columnist Mehmet Ali Birand.
"Something went dreadfully wrong for the soldiers to be taken by the PKK - and that reflects badly on the Turkish military," he says.
"The media played it down on purpose."
Voluntary surrender?
Four days after their release, the former hostages are still being questioned by military prosecutors. An already suspicious public is ready to believe the rumour that one of them has links to the PKK.
"Prosecutors will be focusing on whether or not the soldiers left with the PKK voluntarily," explains retired military judge Umit Kardas.
"If they did they could be charged with membership of a terrorist organisation."
"This has really shaken the military," he adds.
In a further blow to Turkish pride, pictures from the handover of the eight soldiers have now made their way into local newspapers.
They show three members of the Turkish parliament from the pro-Kurdish DTP party standing beside a poster of Abdullah Ocalan, the imprisoned PKK founder. In others, the MPs are seen greeting the hostage-takers with handshakes and kisses. Though the DTP insist they were present for humanitarian reasons, to aid the soldiers' release, they are now being investigated on suspicion of supporting a terrorist organisation.

Hoe zou die minister reageren als zijn eigen zoon in zo'n situatie terechtkwam? Ook in een vlaag van chauvinisme zo opofferingsgezind zijn?

Gaan er wel uberhaupt zonen van ministers en andere "notabelen" naar de frontlinie?

[styllo_ben]

Die 8 arme sukkelaars zijn nu aangeklaagd, omdat ze, zoals een goede Turk betaamt, niet zijn gestorven in de strijd...

Freed Turkish troops face charges

Turkey has amassed a huge number of troops on Iraq's border
Eight Turkish troops captured and then freed by Kurdish rebels are being held in a military jail and face unspecified charges, army sources say.
The soldiers have been criticised by some in Turkey, amid allegations that they acted as cowards and fostered Kurdish propaganda.

The troops, who were captured on 21 October in an ambush that killed 12 other soldiers, were freed last Sunday.

Kurdish rebels have killed 40 soldiers and civilians in the past month.

Dozens of rebels have also been killed over the same period, Turkey's military says, as the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) stepped up its attacks.

The PKK - which is treated as a terrorist organisation by Turkey, the EU and US - has waged a violent campaign for a Kurdish homeland since 1984, resulting in more than 30,000 deaths.

Investigation

There are no clear indications of the charges the soldiers face although one lawyer involved in the case told Associated Press news agency they included disobedience and escaping abroad.

As a Turkish citizen I cannot accept the fact that they went with the terrorists that night

Justice Minister Mehmet Ali Sahin


Cold welcome

The lawyer said the soldiers were in a military prison in the eastern province of Van.

Criticism of the troops' actions had even come from Justice Minister Mehmet Ali Sahin.

"No member of the Turkish armed forces should have found themselves in such a situation," he said last week.

"As a Turkish citizen I cannot accept the fact that they went with the terrorists that night. Our soldier is prepared to die if necessary when he is protecting the country."

An investigation is under way into the release of the troops, which came ahead of a key meeting between Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan and US President George W Bush.

The investigation will include the role of three lawmakers from Turkey's pro-Kurdish Democratic Society Party who went to northern Iraq to take part in the release ceremony with Iraqi officials.

The deadly ambush brought the Kurdish rebel situation to a head.

Turkey has amassed about 100,000 troops on the Iraqi border and has threatened to make cross-border incursions to deal with the rebels.

Turkey's Western allies and Iraq have urged it to show restraint.

van bbc.com

Tja, je zout maar nationalistisch zijn en uw "land, vlag en leider" willen verdedigen.

[styllo_ben]

een bericht van associated press geeft de situatie beter weer dan het bericht van bbc

Turkey Charges Freed Troops With Neglect
By C. ONUR ANT – 10 hours ago

ISTANBUL, Turkey (AP) — Eight Turkish troops taken hostage by Kurdish rebels after a deadly ambush have been charged with neglecting their duty during the clash, a defense attorney said Sunday.

The Oct. 21 ambush, which killed 12 other soldiers, had increased pressure on Turkey's government stage a cross-border offensive against Kurdish rebel bases in northern Iraq — an operation the U.S. has discouraged for fear of destabilizing a relatively calm part of Iraq.

Rebels released the eight captive soldiers earlier this month. They were charged Saturday with "disobedience that could lead to a major catastrophe" and "undermining military discipline," said lawyer Ramazan Korkmaz, who represents the soldiers. Two of the soldiers also face a charge of "escaping abroad."

Rebels from the Kurdistan Workers' Party, or PKK, ambushed the soldiers in southeastern Turkey and held them hostage at a rebel base across the border in Iraq.

Fighting in the border area has claimed dozens of lives on the Turkish side — most of them soldiers — in less than two months. During the same period, at least 88 rebels have been killed, according to the Turkish military and media reports.

Korkmaz, who was not allowed to go through the court file but was present at Saturday's hearing, said the soldiers were accused of "not properly fulfilling their national duty."

The soldiers told the court that they had run out of ammunition and some of their weapons were not working when the rebels took them hostage, Korkmaz said. There was no further explanation of why the charges were brought.

Last week, Justice Minister Mehmet Ali Sahin suggested that the soldiers should have fought to the death rather than allowed themselves to be captured.

"I could not accept the fact that these soldiers went with the terrorists that night after the operation," Sahin said. "Our soldier is the one who ought to risk falling as a martyr while protecting his homeland."

Sahin stopped short of saying the men had surrendered, however.

Shortly after the soldiers' return to Turkey, local media here said that they were being interrogated by military authorities. They are being held in a military prison in the eastern province of Van, and it was not immediately clear when they would appear in court again.

Korkmaz said the disobedience charges carry a sentence of up to 10 years in prison. Charges of escaping abroad would add another five years, he said.

Ibrahim Cagan, the father of one of the soldiers, said Sunday he did not know his son was imprisoned until he saw news reports, and that he and his son had not been able to communicate since his release by the rebels.

"I am very sad," said Cagan. "I am calling on our heroic army to release my son."

Turkey has fought since 1984 against the rebels of the PKK, which the United States and the European Union label a terrorist organization. Tens of thousands of people have been killed in the fighting.

The government has received authorization from Parliament to hit PKK bases in neighboring Iraq. It has massed tens of thousands of troops along the border to block rebel infiltration and to prepare for a possible cross-border operation.

[maddox]

En dat zootje idioten willen we bij de EU?

[forumspook]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door styllo_ben

Nadat op 17 oktober het Turks parlement de regering de toestemming gaf om Noord-Irak binnen te vallen, organiseerde de PKK op 21 oktober een raid op een Turkse militaire post om aan te tonen dat ze de Turkse agressie zouden weerstaan en zich niet overgeven. Die raid is één van de dodelijkste geweest die Turkije sinds 1999 te verwerken kreeg.

Om de boodschap duidelijk te maken nam de PKK ook 8 Turkse soldaten gevangen.

Vorige week zijn deze 8 vrijgelaten dankzij tussenkomsten van Koerdische parlementsleden uit Turkije om een vreedzame oplossing van de Koerden kwestie een kans te geven. De bedoeling was de 'hearts and minds' van de Turken te winnen.

Gelukt?

lees zelf maar:



Hoe zou die minister reageren als zijn eigen zoon in zo'n situatie terechtkwam? Ook in een vlaag van chauvinisme zo opofferingsgezind zijn?

Gaan er wel uberhaupt zonen van ministers en andere "notabelen" naar de frontlinie?

dat zal wel zijn als vroeger hier: enkel arme luizen naar het front.

[styllo_ben]

precies!

in Turkije dient het nationalisme voor niks anders dan om het arme keuter-volk voor het kar van de elite te spannen.

[Metternich]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door styllo_ben

in Turkije dient het nationalisme voor niks anders dan om het arme keuter-volk voor het kar van de elite te spannen.

Tsja, dat heb je nu eenmaal met staatsnationalisme...

[styllo_ben]

De 8 soldaten zullen allemaal berecht worden. Ze zullen allemaal gevangenisstraffen krijgen.

De Koerdische soldaat wordt zelfs bedreigd met levenslange gevangenisstraf. Hij wordt beschuldigd van colloboratie met de PKK.

dat zal 'm leren, dienen in het Turkse leger!!!

Captive soldiers face court-martial for disobeying orders
Eight soldiers who were held as captives by the terrorist Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) for two weeks will be court-martialed on various charges, news reports said on Friday.


The soldiers were kidnapped during a PKK ambush near the southeastern village of Dağlıca on Oct. 21 and released two weeks later by the terrorist group with the help of a delegation that included three deputies of the pro-Kurdish Democratic Society Party (DTP) after being held in the northern Iraqi city of Arbil.
The soldiers had been detained shortly after they were flown to Turkey from northern Iraq as part of an investigation on charges of violating military discipline, disobeying orders, evading the army and escaping to a foreign country.

One of the soldiers, Ramazan Yüce, is facing life in prison on charges of praising a crime and its perpetrator, disobeying orders, assisting in a crime against the state's integrity, escaping to a foreign country, involvement in propaganda of the separatist terrorist organization and dissuading the public from performing military service.

Privates İrfan Beyaz, İrfan Beyaz, Özhan Şabanoğlu, Fuat Başoda, İlhami Demir, Fatih Atakul and Mehmet Şenkul are facing trial for "disobeying" orders. In addition to disobeying orders, Spc. Sgt. Halis Çağan is being accused of involvement in propaganda of the PKK through the press.

Meanwhile, an indictment was sent for approval to Parliament concerning the three DTP deputies to whom the soldiers were handed over at the time of their release by the PKK.

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/de...ay&link=130923

[Geert C]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Metternich

Tsja, dat heb je nu eenmaal met staatsnationalisme...

En met volksnationalisme niet dan? Al ooit van Koerdische terroristen gehoord?

[styllo_ben]

sdsc

[styllo_ben]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Geert C

En met volksnationalisme niet dan? Al ooit van Koerdische terroristen gehoord?

nee, eigenlijk niet.

vertel eens.

[Bolsjewiek]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Geert C

En met volksnationalisme niet dan? Al ooit van Koerdische terroristen gehoord?

De Koerdische vrijheidsstrijders zijn voor het grootste deel marxistisch.

[Burkide]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Bolsjewiek

De Koerdische vrijheidsstrijders zijn voor het grootste deel marxistisch.

Daarmee zijn ze dan ook een stuk intelligenter dan de gemiddelde flamingant (maar niet alle)

Maar nu vraag ik mij af in welke mate de Koerdische Arbeiderspartij zichzelf in haar eigen teksten omschrijft als een nationalistische organisatie of (andere mogelijkheid, waar ik zeker kan inkomen) het nationalisme als ideologie strijdig zien met hun marxisme.

[filosoof]

Niks nieuws:

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Horatius

Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori (Odes III,2,13)