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Buitenland Internationale onderwerpen, de politiek van de Europese lidstaten, over de werking van Europa, Europese instellingen, ... politieke en maatschappelijke discussies. |
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#1 | |
Secretaris-Generaal VN
Geregistreerd: 2 september 2002
Berichten: 33.982
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#2 |
Minister
Geregistreerd: 4 november 2004
Berichten: 3.975
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![]() Lieberman ...
![]() de plezanterik, en ondertussen unilateraal rustig de west bank en oost jeruzalem verder uitbreiden met kolonies, alle vredesoverleg boycotten ... en dan proberen uitleggen aan de wereld dat Israel wel voor vrede is en dat er verantwoordelijk en gevoelig gehandeld moet worden ... tja dan wordt het voor lieberman inderdaad wel heel moeilijk of ingewikkeld. Ook in de UK is er in het parlement met overweldigende meerderheid een niet bindende resolutie gestemd geweest voor officiele erkenning van de Palestijnse staat. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/14/wo...ian-state.html het 'tzijn allemaal jodenhaters' argument ligt mijn inziens niet zo ver meer af voor lieberman en co ![]() Laatst gewijzigd door piazzolla : 30 oktober 2014 om 17:02. |
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#3 |
Banneling
Geregistreerd: 16 oktober 2008
Locatie: Judea
Berichten: 4.557
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![]() Bs'd
Europa wil geen vrede in het MO, europa wil een excuus om Israel aan te vallen en weer eens alle joden te gaan uitmoorden. Voor het werkelijk simpele MO conflict, kijk hier; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHC8KC5cLs8 |
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#4 | |
Secretaris-Generaal VN
Geregistreerd: 24 maart 2014
Berichten: 78.157
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Europa die joden wil vermoorden, komaan... |
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#5 | |
Banneling
Geregistreerd: 16 oktober 2008
Locatie: Judea
Berichten: 4.557
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Hoe kom ik op 't krankzinnige idee he? Europa en de joden uitmoorden, dat zouden ze toch NOOOOOOIT doen? Het zijn toch beschaafde mensen en geen barbaren? Laatst gewijzigd door Eliyahu : 30 oktober 2014 om 19:17. |
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#6 | |
Secretaris-Generaal VN
Geregistreerd: 24 maart 2014
Berichten: 78.157
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![]() Citaat:
Ik denk dat je van mij weinig tot geen kritiek zult vinden op het forum dat tegen israël is gericht. Integendeel, ik heb veel respect voor hun standvastigheid en hun methodiek om als minuscuul landje in een arabische oceaan van land drie oorlogen te overwinnen en dan nog de dominante macht te hebben om zich tegen elke regionale speler die het een vierde keer zou willen proberen met succes te verzetten en deze daarbij wellicht zelfs te kunnen vernietigen. Maar dat neemt niet weg dat je claim te zot voor woorden is. Geen enkel europees land wil dat. Refereren naar WO II is de discussie vervalsen. Die gruwelijke misstap is wat hij is maar je kan daaruit geen enkele zinvolle conclusie trekken naar het heden toe. |
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#7 |
Banneling
Geregistreerd: 2 september 2013
Berichten: 29.811
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![]() Zal ik het maar zeggen zeker?
Een Ikea meubel ineen steken is toch gemakkelijk? Er is een planneke bij, en de vijzen en schroevendraaiers zitten er ook bij. |
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#8 | ||
Banneling
Geregistreerd: 16 oktober 2008
Locatie: Judea
Berichten: 4.557
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![]() Citaat:
Oh. Het feit dat minder dan 70 jaar geleden 6 miljoen onschuldige joodse burgers in europa afgeslacht zijn, waaronder 1.500.000 kinderen, dat mag niet vermeld worden, want dan "vervals je de discussie". Mag dit ook niet vermeld worden? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_antisemitism Among socio-economic factors were restrictions by the authorities. Local rulers and church officials closed many professions to the Jews, pushing them into marginal occupations considered socially inferior, such as tax and rent collecting and moneylending, tolerated then as a "necessary evil". Catholic doctrine of the time held that lending money for interest was a sin, and forbidden to Christians. Not being subject to this restriction, Jews dominated this business. The Torah and later sections of the Hebrew Bible criticise Usury but interpretations of the Biblical prohibition vary. Since few other occupations were open to them, Jews were motivated to take up money lending. This was said to show Jews were insolent, greedy, usurers, and subsequently led to many negative stereotypes and propaganda. Natural tensions between creditors (typically Jews) and debtors (typically Christians) were added to social, political, religious, and economic strains. Peasants who were forced to pay their taxes to Jews could personify them as the people taking their earnings while remaining loyal to the lords on whose behalf the Jews worked. The Black Death Further information: Black Death As the Black Death epidemics devastated Europe in the mid-14th century, annihilating more than a half of the population, Jews were taken as scapegoats. Rumors spread that they caused the disease by deliberately poisoning wells. Hundreds of Jewish communities were destroyed by violence, in particular in the Iberian peninsula and in the Germanic Empire. In Provence, 40 Jews were burnt in Toulon as soon as April 1348.[2] "Never mind that Jews were not immune from the ravages of the plague ; they were tortured until they "confessed" to crimes that they could not possibly have committed. In one such case, a man named Agimet was ... coerced to say that Rabbi Peyret of Chambéry (near Geneva) had ordered him to poison the wells in Venice, Toulouse, and elsewhere. In the aftermath of Agimet's "confession", the Jews of Strasbourg were burned alive on February 14, 1349.[3] Although the Pope Clement VI tried to protect them by the July 6, 1348 papal bull and another 1348 bull, several months later, 900 Jews were burnt in Strasbourg, where the plague hadn't yet affected the city.[2] Clement VI condemned the violence and said those who blamed the plague on the Jews (among whom were the flagellants) had been "seduced by that liar, the Devil." Demonizing of the Jews From around the 12th century through the 19th there were Christians who believed that some (or all) Jews possessed magical powers; some believed that they had gained these magical powers from making a deal with the devil. See also Judensau, Judeophobia. Blood libels Main article: blood libel On many occasions, Jews were accused of a blood libel, the supposed drinking of blood of Christian children in mockery of the Christian Eucharist. According to the authors of these blood libels, the 'procedure' for the alleged sacrifice was something like this: a child who had not yet reached puberty was kidnapped and taken to a hidden place. The child would be tortured by Jews, and a crowd would gather at the place of execution (in some accounts the synagogue itself) and engage in a mock tribunal to try the child. The child would be presented to the tribunal naked and tied and eventually be condemned to death. In the end, the child would be crowned with thorns and tied or nailed to a wooden cross. The cross would be raised, and the blood dripping from the child's wounds would be caught in bowls or glasses and then drunk. Finally, the child would be killed with a thrust through the heart from a spear, sword, or dagger. Its dead body would be removed from the cross and concealed or disposed of, but in some instances rituals of black magic would be performed on it.[citation needed] A 15th-century German woodcut showing an alleged host desecration. In the first panel the hosts are stolen; in the second the hosts bleed when pierced by a Jew; in the third the Jews are arrested; and in the fourth they are burned alive. The story of William of Norwich (d. 1144) is often cited as the first known accusation of ritual murder against Jews. The Jews of Norwich, England were accused of murder after a Christian boy, William, was found dead. It was claimed that the Jews had tortured and crucified their victim. The legend of William of Norwich became a cult, and the child acquired the status of a holy martyr. Recent analysis has cast doubt on whether this was the first of the series of blood libel accusations but not on the contrived and antisemitic nature of the tale.[4] During the Middle Ages blood libels were directed against Jews in many parts of Europe. The believers of these accusations reasoned that the Jews, having crucified Jesus, continued to thirst for pure and innocent blood and satisfied their thirst at the expense of innocent Christian children. Following this logic, such charges were typically made in Spring around the time of Passover, which approximately coincides with the time of Jesus' death.[5] The story of Little Saint Hugh of Lincoln (d. 1255) said that after the boy was dead, his body was removed from the cross and laid on a table. His belly was cut open and his entrails were removed for some occult purpose, such as a divination ritual. The story of Simon of Trent (d. 1475) emphasized how the boy was held over a large bowl so all his blood could be collected. Host desecration Jews were sometimes falsely accused of desecrating consecrated hosts in a reenactment of the Crucifixion; this crime was known as host desecration and carried the death penalty. Disabilities and restrictions Jews were subject to a wide range of legal disabilities and restrictions throughout the Middle Ages, some of which lasted until the end of the 19th century. Jews were excluded from many trades, the occupations varying with place and time, and determined by the influence of various non-Jewish competing interests. Often Jews were barred from all occupations but money-lending and peddling, with even these at times forbidden. The number of Jews permitted to reside in different places was limited; they were concentrated in ghettos,[citation needed] and were not allowed to own land; they were subject to discriminatory taxes on entering cities or districts other than their own, were forced to swear special Jewish Oaths, and suffered a variety of other measures, including restrictions on dress. The Crusades were a series of several military campaigns sanctioned by the Papacy that took place during the 11th through 13th centuries. They began as Christian endeavors to recapture Jerusalem and then to maintain the small Christian kingdoms established in the Levant against the Muslim reconquest which eventually overran them. The mobs accompanying the first Crusade, and particularly the People's Crusade, attacked the Jewish communities in Germany, France, and England, and put many Jews to death. Entire communities, like those of Treves, Speyer, Worms, Mainz, and Cologne, were slain during the first Crusade by a mob army. About 12,000 Jews are said to have perished in the Rhenish cities alone between May and July 1096. Before the Crusades the Jews had practically a monopoly of trade in Eastern products, but the closer connection between Europe and the East brought about by the Crusades raised up a class of merchant traders among the Christians, and from this time onward restrictions on the sale of goods by Jews became frequent. The religious zeal fomented by the Crusades at times burned as fiercely against the Jews as against the Muslims, though attempts were made by bishops during the First crusade and the papacy during the Second Crusade to stop Jews from being attacked. Both economically and socially the Crusades were disastrous for European Jews. They prepared the way for the anti-Jewish legislation of Pope Innocent III, and formed the turning point in the medieval history of the Jews. In the County of Toulouse (now part of southern France) Jews were received on good terms until the Albigensian Crusade. Toleration and favour shown to the Jews was one of the main complaints of the Roman Church against the Counts of Toulouse. Following the Crusaders' successful wars against Raymond VI and Raymond VII, the counts were required to discriminate against Jews like other Christian rulers. In 1209, stripped to the waist and barefoot, Raymond VI was obliged to swear that he would no longer allow Jews to hold public office. In 1229 his son Raymond VII, underwent a similar ceremony where he was obliged to prohibit the public employment of Jews, this time at Notre Dame in Paris. Explicit provisions on the subject were included in the Treaty of Meaux (1229). By the next generation a new, zealously Catholic, ruler was arresting and imprisoning Jews for no crime, raiding their houses, seizing their cash, and removing their religious books. They were then released only if they paid a new "tax". A historian has argued that organised and official persecution of the Jews became a normal feature of life in southern France only after the Albigensian Crusade because it was only then that the Church became powerful enough to insist that measures of discrimination be applied.[6] Expulsions from England, France, Germany, Spain and Portugal Only a few expulsions of the Jews are described in this section, for a more extended list see History of antisemitism, and also the History of the Jews in England, Germany, Spain, and France. In the Middle ages in Europe persecutions and formal expulsions of Jews were liable to occur at intervals, although it should be said that this was also the case for other minority communities, whether religious or ethnic. There were particular outbursts of riotous persecution in the Rhineland massacres of 1096 in Germany accompanying the lead-up to the First Crusade, many involving the crusaders as they travelled to the East. There were many local expulsions from cities by local rulers and city councils. In Germany the Holy Roman Emperor generally tried to restrain persecution, if only for economic reasons, but he was often unable to exert much influence.[7][8] As late as 1519, the Imperial city of Regensburg took advantage of the recent death of Emperor Maximilian I to expel its 500 Jews.[9] The practice of expelling the Jews accompanied by confiscation of their property, followed by temporary readmissions for ransom, was utilized to enrich the French crown during 12th-14th centuries. The most notable such expulsions were: from Paris by Philip Augustus in 1182, from the entirety of France by Louis IX in 1254, by Charles IV in 1306, by Charles V in 1322, by Charles VI in 1394. To finance his war to conquer Wales, Edward I of England taxed the Jewish moneylenders. When the Jews could no longer pay, they were accused of disloyalty. Already restricted to a limited number of occupations, the Jews saw Edward abolish their "privilege" to lend money, choke their movements and activities and were forced to wear a yellow patch. The heads of Jewish households were then arrested, over 300 of them taken to the Tower of London and executed, while others killed in their homes. See also:-Massacres at London and York (1189–1190). The complete banishment of all Jews from the country in 1290 led to thousands killed and drowned while fleeing and the absence of Jews from England for three and a half centuries, until 1655, when Oliver Cromwell reversed the policy. In 1492, Ferdinand II of Aragon and Isabella I of Castile issued General Edict on the Expulsion of the Jews from Spain (see also Spanish Inquisition) and many Sephardi Jews fled to the Ottoman Empire, some to Palestine. The Kingdom of Portugal followed suit and in December 1496, it was decreed that any Jew who did not convert to Christianity would be expelled from the country. However, those expelled could only leave the country in ships specified by the King. When those who chose expulsion arrived at the port in Lisbon, they were met by clerics and soldiers who used force, coercion, and promises in order to baptize them and prevent them from leaving the country. This period of time technically ended the presence of Jews in Portugal. Afterwards, all converted Jews and their descendants would be referred to as "New Christians" or Marranos, and they were given a grace period of thirty years in which no inquiries into their faith would be allowed; this was later to extended to end in 1534. A popular riot in 1504 would end in the death of two thousand Jews; the leaders of this riot were executed by Manuel. In 1744, Frederick II of Prussia limited Breslau to only ten so-called "protected" Jewish families and encouraged similar practice in other Prussian cities. In 1750 he issued Revidiertes General Privilegium und Reglement vor die Judenschaft: the "protected" Jews had an alternative to "either abstain from marriage or leave Berlin" (quoting Simon Dubnow). In the same year, Archduchess of Austria Maria Theresa ordered Jews out of Bohemia but soon reversed her position, on condition that Jews pay for readmission every ten years. This extortion was known as malke-geld (queen's money). In 1752 she introduced the law limiting each Jewish family to one son. In 1782, Joseph II abolished most of persecution practices in his Toleranzpatent, on the condition that Yiddish and Hebrew are eliminated from public records and judicial autonomy is annulled. Moses Mendelssohn wrote that "Such a tolerance... is even more dangerous play in tolerance than open persecution". Anti-Judaism and the Reformation Luther's 1543 pamphlet On the Jews and Their Lies Main article: Christianity and antisemitism Martin Luther, an Augustinian monk and an ecclesiastical reformer whose teachings inspired the Protestant Reformation, wrote antagonistically about Jews in his book On the Jews and their Lies, which describes the Jews in extremely harsh terms, excoriates them, and provides detailed recommendations for a pogrom against them and their permanent oppression and/or expulsion. At one point in On the Jews and Their Lies, Martin Luther goes even as far to write "that we are at fault in not slaying them." According to Paul Johnson, it "may be termed the first work of modern antisemitism, and a giant step forward on the road to the Holocaust."[10] In his final sermon shortly before his death, however, Luther preached "We want to treat them with Christian love and to pray for them, so that they might become converted and would receive the Lord."[11] Still, Luther's harsh comments about the Jews are seen by many as a continuation of medieval Christian antisemitism. See also Martin Luther and Antisemitism Duizenden jaren doet europa niks anders dan joden discrimineren, deporteren, martelen, en verbranden. Maar daar mogen we het niet over hebben, want dan vervalsen we de discussie. Dus laten we het daar dan maar niet over hebben, we zouden tenslotte toch niet de discussie willen vervalsen. Citaat:
En vos verliest wel zijn haren, maar niet zijn streken. . . . |
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#9 | |
Perm. Vertegenwoordiger VN
Geregistreerd: 7 juni 2014
Locatie: 't Steen
Berichten: 15.456
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![]() Citaat:
Doordat Israel in Gaza dezelfde misdaden tegen de mensheid gepleegd heeft als Nazi-Duitsland (niet in kwantiteit, maar in "kwaliteit" ), is het historisch krediet van Israel verbeurd verklaard. Dus stoppen met zeuren, en werken aan vrede. |
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#10 |
Minister-President
Geregistreerd: 23 februari 2012
Berichten: 5.725
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#11 |
Banneling
Geregistreerd: 2 september 2013
Berichten: 29.811
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![]() Vergeet maar niet dat Europa meehelpt de ondergang van Israël te verhinderen!
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#12 |
Perm. Vertegenwoordiger VN
Geregistreerd: 2 januari 2006
Berichten: 11.569
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![]() Het is allemaal al gezegd en niets zal helpen het conflict tussen Jood en Islamiet uit de weg te ruimen.
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Brussel regeert, Brussel dicteert, de burger gireert. Ondertussen neemt de Euroscepsis hand over hand toe. |
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#13 | ||
Banneling
Geregistreerd: 16 oktober 2008
Locatie: Judea
Berichten: 4.557
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6 miljoen onschuldige burgers vermoorden, daar moeten we na 70 jaar niet meer over zeuren? Moordenaars worden soms na langere tijd nog berecht. En we moeten natuurlijk niet alleen naar de holocaust kijken, maar naar de hele europese geschiedenis van het discrimineren, deporteren, martelen en vermoorden van joden door de milennia heen. Citaat:
De nazi's hebben onschuldige burgers hun huizen uit gesleept, en ze standrechtelijk doodgeschoten, of ze vermoord in gaskamers, of ze onder gruwelijke omstandigheden doodgewerkt. Wat Israel gedaan heeft in gaza, is zichzelf verdedigen tegen duizenden raketaanvallen op burgerdoelen in Israel door een vijandige staat. Israel heeft de grootste moeite gedaan om burgerslachtoffers te vermijden, en het grootste gedeelte van de slachtoffers waren dan ook terorristen. Om Israel dan te verwijten dat ze hetzelfde gedaan hebben als de nazi's, is natuurlijk een verschrikkelijke leugen. Hier zien we wederom de blasfemische omkering van de geschiedenis, toegepast door jodenhaters, gelijk prof dr Hans Jansen, expert in het anti-semitisme schreef: Vandaag zijn wij getuige van een nieuwe verandering: het antisemitisme verandert in een religieus antizionisme (en alle joden worden verondersteld zionisten te zijn!). Het maakt gebruik van alle middeleeuwse mythen en legenden (de rituele moord, het vergiftigen van de bronnen, de mythe van de Godsmoord, van de jood als dé incarnatie van het kwaad en de Duivel op aarde enzovoorts). We zijn getuige van een nieuwe verandering, die zo vernuftig, ingenieus, kwaadaardig en demonisch is, dat zij het immuunsysteem dat Europa in de laatste halve eeuw tegen jodenhaat opbouwde, verlamt, buiten werking stelt en krachteloos maakt. Wat die 2e grote verandering precies inhoudt? Dat de afschuwelijkste misdaden die antisemieten in het verleden bedreven (Hitler en de zijnen) - racisme, etnische zuiveringen, poging tot genocide en misdaden tegen de menselijkheid - nu aan joden en de staat Israël worden toegeschreven. Dat betekent dat wie strijdt tegen racisme en nazisme, zich absoluut tegen de joden teweer moet stellen! Wij zien deze volstrekt nieuwe vorm van antisemitisme als een van de meest blasfemische omkeringen in de geschiedenis van 's werelds oudste vorm van haat. Wij zijn diep geschokt omdat maar zeer weinig niet-joden in Europa deze blasfemische omkering hebben herkend en veroordeeld. . . . |
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#14 |
Banneling
Geregistreerd: 16 oktober 2008
Locatie: Judea
Berichten: 4.557
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#15 | |
Perm. Vertegenwoordiger VN
Geregistreerd: 7 juni 2014
Locatie: 't Steen
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#16 |
Secretaris-Generaal VN
Geregistreerd: 2 september 2002
Berichten: 33.982
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![]() Als jullie geen andere argumenten hebben dan die tekening en dat filmpje, dan zal Eliyahu een serieus punt hebben gescoord.
Ik moet zeggen dat hij in deze draad ook heel sterk uit de hoek komt. Laatst gewijzigd door Antoon : 31 oktober 2014 om 00:24. |
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#17 | ||
Secretaris-Generaal VN
Geregistreerd: 11 januari 2008
Locatie: La Paz - Lanaken
Berichten: 23.618
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![]() Citaat:
Citaat:
Persoonlijk geloof ik dat Zweden juist een voorbeeld geeft aan de andere Europese landen dat tot vrede kan leiden. Het is dat of wachten op de volledige verdwijning van alles wat Palestijns is in die regio. Israël sloot trouwens de Al Aqsa Moskee las ik vandaag. Een stap in de richting van vrede of het omgekeerde? Israël is bezig met een zuivering en geeft dat niet openlijk toe. Het kan echter moeilijk verwachten dat de Palestijnen geen verzet tegen die politiek hebben. En dat verwacht Israël ook niet. Dat verzet wordt de kop ingedrukt en de schuld van het verzet wordt op de Palestijnen zelf gestoken. En daaraan werken de media in Europa in grote mate aan mee. Die doen alsof het om een conflict tussen gelijken gaat als zwak excuus voor objectiviteit. Europese politici sluiten de ogen, ook als Israël zojuist 18000 huizen vernielde in Gaza (dixit VN rapport). Maar om diezelfde politici dan nog te gaan beschuldigen van antisemitisch te zijn. Dat getuigt m.i. van extremisme en wereldvreemdheid. De mythe van het leeg land voor een volk zonder land leeft nog. Maar dat land was nooit leeg en men dient respect te hebben voor de mensen die daar wonen. Daarom dat het toe te juichen is dat Zweden officieel erkent dat daar ook nog andere mensen wonen dan Israëliërs met evenveel rechten als de Israëliërs. Hopelijk doet Israël ook ooit hetzelfde. Erkennen dat het niet alleen is. De naaste erkennen als naaste. Het is in de eerste plaats aan Israël om haar goede wil te tonen. Zij zijn de overheerser. Zij blijven zich uitbreiden ten koste van Palestijnse bezittingen. Zij zijn de machtige in dit conflict met de Palestijnen. Zij hebben de steun van het sterkste leger van deze aarde. Ijdele hoop vrees ik echter. Zonder druk van de VS zal Israël verder gaan de Palestijnen te verdrijven en op te sluiten in enclaves. Europa bengelt daar wat achteraan...behalve Zweden dat een moedige stap durfde zetten. Laatst gewijzigd door Johan Bollen : 31 oktober 2014 om 01:01. |
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#18 | |
Secretaris-Generaal VN
Geregistreerd: 9 december 2010
Berichten: 36.784
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![]() De titel van deze draad: "Midden-Oosten ingewikkelder dan Ikea-meubel"
En dan: Citaat:
De denigrerende wijze waarop men de beslissing van Zweden poogt te ridiculiseren buiten beschouwing gelaten; vraagt U eens aan pakweg de gemiddelde (lees daadwerkelijk gematigde) Syrische burger of deze vindt dat wat men ginds beleeft vergelijkbaar is met het in elkaar knutselen van een ikea-kastje. Ach, in feite roert deze welbekende 'superieure' humor me absoluut niet, maar laat deze partypooper de pret niet bederven, nog een aangename en misschien wel hilarische verderzetting toegewenst. Laatst gewijzigd door zonbron : 31 oktober 2014 om 02:08. |
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#19 |
Partijlid
Geregistreerd: 17 december 2010
Berichten: 236
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![]() Jij bent de eerste om iedereen die met complottheorieën afkomt op dit forum vierkant uit te lachen. Maar als er iemand aankomt met een theorie dat Europa stiekem eigenlijk alle joden wil uitroeien noem je dat sterk uit de hoek komen? Aja, want in het verleden is het nog al eens gebeurd en een vos verliest zijn streken niet. Amaai, sterk argument.
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#20 | |
Banneling
Geregistreerd: 16 oktober 2008
Locatie: Judea
Berichten: 4.557
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![]() Citaat:
Zoals gewoonlijk hebben jullie, gehersenspoeld als jullie zijn met anti-Israel propaganda, geen flauw idee van de werkelijke feiten. Lees hier wat meer over de slachtoffers van protective edge: http://honestreporting.com/analysis-...otective-edge/ |
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