AP Enterprise: Cell phones spill secrets

30 augustus 2006, 17:55

AP Enterprise: Cell phones spill secrets By TED BRIDIS,
Associated Press Writer
2 hours, 13 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - The married man's girlfriend sent a text message
to his cell phone: His wife was getting suspicious. Perhaps
they should cool it for a few days.

"So," she wrote, "I'll talk to u next week."

"You want a break from me? Then fine," he wrote back.

Later, the married man bought a new phone. He sold his old one
on eBay, at Internet auction, for $290.

The guys who bought it now know his secret.

The married man had followed the directions in his phone's
manual to erase all his information, including lurid exchanges
with his lover. But it wasn't enough.

Selling your old phone once you upgrade to a fancier model can
be like handing over your diaries. All sorts of sensitive
information pile up inside our cell phones, and deleting it
may be more difficult than you think.

A popular practice among sellers, resetting the phone, often
means sensitive information appears to have been erased. But
it can be resurrected using specialized yet inexpensive
software found on the Internet.

A company, Trust Digital of McLean, Va., bought 10 different
phones on eBay this summer to test phone-security tools it
sells for businesses. The phones all were fairly sophisticated
models capable of working with corporate e-mail systems.

Curious software experts at Trust Digital resurrected
information on nearly all the used phones, including the racy
exchanges between guarded lovers.

The other phones contained:

_One company's plans to win a multimillion-dollar federal
transportation contract.

_E-mails about another firm's $50,000 payment for a software
license.

_Bank accounts and passwords.

_Details of prescriptions and receipts for one worker's
utility payments.

The recovered information was equal to 27,000 pages — a stack
of printouts 8 feet high.

"We found just a mountain of personal and corporate data,"
said Nick Magliato, Trust Digital's chief executive.

Many of the phones were owned personally by the sellers but
crammed with sensitive corporate information, underscoring the
blurring of work and home. "They don't come with a warning
label that says, 'Be careful.' The data on these phones is
very important," Magliato said.

One phone surrendered the secrets of a chief executive at a
small technology company in Silicon Valley. It included
details of a pending deal with Adobe Systems Inc., and e-mail
proposals from a potential Japanese partner:

"If we want to be exclusive distributor in Japan, what kind of
business terms you want?" asked the executive in Japan.

Trust Digital surmised that the U.S. chief executive gave his
old phone to a former roommate, who used it briefly then sold
it for $400 on eBay. Researchers found e-mails covering
different periods for both men, who used the same address
until recently.

Experts said giving away an old phone is commonplace.
Consumers upgrade their cell phones on average about every 18
months.

"Most people toss their phones after they're done; a lot of
them give their old phones to family members or friends," said
Miro Kazakoff, a researcher at Compete Inc. of Boston who
follows mobile phone sales and trends. He said selling a used
phone — which sometimes can fetch hundreds of dollars — is
increasingly popular.

The 10 phones Trust Digital studied represented popular models
from leading manufacturers. All the phones stored information
on "flash" memory chips, the same technology found in digital
cameras and some music players.

Flash memory is inexpensive and durable. But it is slow to
erase information in ways that make it impossible to recover.
So manufacturers compensate with methods that erase data less
completely but don't make a phone seem sluggish.

Phone manufacturers usually provide instructions for safely
deleting a customer's information, but it's not always
convenient or easy to find. Research in Motion Ltd. has built
into newer Blackberry phones an easy-to-use wipe program.

Palm Inc., which makes the popular Treo phones, puts
directions deep within its Web site for what it calls a "zero
out reset." It involves holding down three buttons
simultaneously while pressing a fourth tiny button on the back
of the phone.

But it's so awkward to do that even Palm says it may take two
people. A Palm executive, Joe Fabris, said the company made
the process deliberately clumsy because it doesn't want
customers accidentally erasing their information.

Trust Digital resurrected erased e-mails and other information
from a used Treo phone provided by The Associated Press for a
demonstration after it was reset and appeared empty. Once the
phone was reset using Palm's awkward "zero-out" technique, no
information could be recovered. The AP already used that
technique to protect data on its reporters' phones.

"The tools are out there" for hackers and thieves to rummage
through deleted data on used phones, Trust Digital's chief
technology officer, Norm Laudermilch, said. "It definitely
does not take a Ph.D."

Fabris, Palm's director of wireless solutions, said the
company may warn customers in an upcoming newsletter about the
risks of selling their used phones after AP's inquiries. "It
might behoove us to raise this issue," Fabris said.

Dean Olmstead of Fresno, Calif., sold his Treo phone on eBay
after using it six months. He didn't know about Palm's
instructions to safely delete all his personal information.
Now, he's worried.

"I probably should have done that," Olmstead said. "Folks need
to know this. I'm hoping my phone goes to a nice person."

Guy Martin of Albuquerque, N.M., wasn't as concerned someone
will snoop on his secrets. He also sold his Treo phone on eBay
and didn't delete his information completely.

"I'm not that kind of valuable person, so I'm not really
worried," said Martin, who runs the http://www.imusteat.com
Web site. "I guarantee that three-quarters of the people who
buy these phones don't think about this."

Trust Digital found no evidence thieves or corporate spies are
routinely buying used phones to mine them for secrets,
Magliato said. "I don't think the bad guys have figured this
out yet."

President Bush's former cybersecurity adviser, Howard
Schmidt, carried up to four phones and e-mail devices — and
said he was always careful with them. To sanitize his older
Blackberry devices, Schmidt would deliberately type his
password incorrectly 11 times, which caused data on them to
self-destruct.

"People are just not aware how much they're exposing
themselves," Schmidt said. "This is more than something you
pick up and talk on. This is your identity. There are people
really looking to exploit this."

Executives at Trust Digital agreed to review with AP the
information extracted from the used phones on the condition AP
would not identify the sellers or their employers. They also
showed AP receipts from the Internet auctions in which they
bought the 10 phones over the summer for prices between $192
and $400 each.

Trust Digital said it intends to return all the phones to
their original owners, and said it kept the recovered personal
information on a single computer under lock and disconnected
from its corporate network at its headquarters in northern
Virginia.

Peiter "Mudge" Zatko, a respected computer security expert,
said phone owners should decide whether to auction their used
equipment for a few hundred dollars — and risk revealing their
secrets — or effectively toss their old phones under a large
truck to dispose of them.

What about a case like the Lothario whose affair Trust Digital
discovered?

"I'd run over the phone," Zatko said. "Maybe give it an acid
bath."

30 augustus 2006, 18:45

[email protected] wrote in news:[email protected]:

>
> AP Enterprise: Cell phones spill secrets By TED BRIDIS,

Hey, Shitmans, pas op, kijk achter je!

30 augustus 2006, 18:45

boutros gali <[email protected]> openbaarde zich in
news:[email protected]. 71:

> [email protected] wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>>
>> AP Enterprise: Cell phones spill secrets By TED BRIDIS,
>
> Hey, Shitmans, pas op, kijk achter je!
>

daar is de lokale dorpslul, boutros gali, weer ...

en vooral een naam nemen die enig aanzien dient te geven omdat
jij jezelf toch zo een nul vindt! net zoals de andere
dorpsclown, uncle, die in zijn geval een zwakke
persoonlijkheid tracht goed te maken met bombastisch
woordgebruik

het wordt moeilijk natuurlijk als je niet meer in je oude
omgeving vertoeft waar je qua intellect nog enigszins boven
het aanwezige laagniveau kon bovenstaan ...

--
"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic
economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak,
with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a
human being according to wealth and property instead of
responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to
destroy this system under all conditions" Hitler, 1 mei 1927
Freya Van den Bossche: Giechelen is aan mij niet besteed,
zoals alle geëmancipeerde vrouwen heb ik ook een poetsvrouw,
dat helpt.
"Wie niet voor ons is is tegen ons", Hitler - de moderne
versie: "Wie zijn rug keert naar links, kijkt naar rechts"
Johan Vande Lanotte, 2005

30 augustus 2006, 19:25

[email protected] wrote in news:[email protected]:

> boutros gali <[email protected]> openbaarde zich in
> news:[email protected]. 71:
>
>> [email protected] wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:

> het wordt moeilijk natuurlijk als je niet meer in je oude
> omgeving vertoeft waar je qua intellect nog enigszins boven
> het aanwezige laagniveau kon bovenstaan ...

Hey, Full, hellep mij aub, hier moet een specialist wat meer uitleg bij
verstrekken.

"Ich bin ein Hamburger"
(of was het een Frankfurter?)

30 augustus 2006, 20:05

On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 18:16:29 GMT, boutros gali <[email protected]>
wrote:

>[email protected] wrote in news:[email protected]:
>
>> boutros gali <[email protected]> openbaarde zich in
>> news:[email protected]. 71:
>>
>>> [email protected] wrote in
>>> news:[email protected]:
>
>> het wordt moeilijk natuurlijk als je niet meer in je oude
>> omgeving vertoeft waar je qua intellect nog enigszins boven
>> het aanwezige laagniveau kon bovenstaan ...
>
>Hey, Full, hellep mij aub, hier moet een specialist wat meer uitleg bij
>verstrekken.
>
>"Ich bin ein Hamburger"
>(of was het een Frankfurter?)

Ik denk dat hij doelt op het zgn schoolfriksyndroom. De status van het
beroep van onderwijzer is de laatste decennia danig afgekalfd, maar in
de klas kunnen ze nog redelijk onuitgedaagd heersen over de horden
onwetenden.

De clash met de werkelijke wereld, waar ze wat tegengas krijgen, zorgt
voor traumata. Hiertegen wapenen ze zich met verdedigingsmechanismen
die ik niet moet illustreren, want we zien dagelijks de pijnlijke
manifestaties ervan op deze nieuwsgroep.

Ach, waar is de tijd dat de schoolmeester tot de notabelen van het
dorp behoorde omdat hij kon lezen en schrijven, een eeuw of wat
geleden. Vandaar het nostalgieke oubollige en gezwollen taalgebruik
van uncle, die als een laudator temporis acti zijn plaats niet meer
vindt in een wereld waarvan hij intussen volledig is gealiÃ«neerd.

Opzetten en in het schoolmuseum plaatsen, tussen leien en griffels,
met stofjas en al. Tot groot jolijt van de ginnegappende kinderen.

Fullator

31 augustus 2006, 11:55

boutros gali <[email protected]> openbaarde zich in
news:[email protected] .71:

> [email protected] wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> boutros gali <[email protected]> openbaarde zich in
>> news:[email protected]. 71:
>>
>>> [email protected] wrote in
>>> news:[email protected]:
>
>> het wordt moeilijk natuurlijk als je niet meer in je oude
>> omgeving vertoeft waar je qua intellect nog enigszins
>> boven het aanwezige laagniveau kon bovenstaan ...
>
> Hey, Full, hellep mij aub, hier moet een specialist wat
> meer uitleg bij verstrekken.
>
> "Ich bin ein Hamburger"
> (of was het een Frankfurter?)
>

met je radeloze vraag naar bijstand waarvoor je het perfecte
antwoord reeds verkreeg heb je perfect bewezen wat de laagte
van je intellect wel is

ga maar met de blokjes spelen, dat is meer op jouw niveau

en je kan daar zelfs bij denken dat jet 'vlaamse blokjes' zijn
zodat je ze de kamer kan doorsmijten want iets anders ben je
toch niet in staat met jouw niveau om er mee aan te richten

--
"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic
economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak,
with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a
human being according to wealth and property instead of
responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to
destroy this system under all conditions" Hitler, 1 mei 1927
Freya Van den Bossche: Giechelen is aan mij niet besteed,
zoals alle geëmancipeerde vrouwen heb ik ook een poetsvrouw,
dat helpt.
"Wie niet voor ons is is tegen ons", Hitler - de moderne
versie: "Wie zijn rug keert naar links, kijkt naar rechts"
Johan Vande Lanotte, 2005

31 augustus 2006, 20:25

[email protected] wrote in news:[email protected]:

>
> en je kan daar zelfs bij denken dat jet 'vlaamse blokjes' zijn
> zodat je ze de kamer kan doorsmijten want iets anders ben je
> toch niet in staat met jouw niveau om er mee aan te richten
>

Zeg Shitmans, zou je niet eens een inburgeringscursus gaan volgen, ik
begrijp gewoon geen snars van je koeterwaalse gewauwel hierboven. Een
vierjarige kleuter praat alleszins samenhangender dan jij.

30 augustus 2006, 17:55	#1
[email protected] Berichten: n/a	AP Enterprise: Cell phones spill secrets AP Enterprise: Cell phones spill secrets By TED BRIDIS, Associated Press Writer 2 hours, 13 minutes ago WASHINGTON - The married man's girlfriend sent a text message to his cell phone: His wife was getting suspicious. Perhaps they should cool it for a few days. "So," she wrote, "I'll talk to u next week." "You want a break from me? Then fine," he wrote back. Later, the married man bought a new phone. He sold his old one on eBay, at Internet auction, for $290. The guys who bought it now know his secret. The married man had followed the directions in his phone's manual to erase all his information, including lurid exchanges with his lover. But it wasn't enough. Selling your old phone once you upgrade to a fancier model can be like handing over your diaries. All sorts of sensitive information pile up inside our cell phones, and deleting it may be more difficult than you think. A popular practice among sellers, resetting the phone, often means sensitive information appears to have been erased. But it can be resurrected using specialized yet inexpensive software found on the Internet. A company, Trust Digital of McLean, Va., bought 10 different phones on eBay this summer to test phone-security tools it sells for businesses. The phones all were fairly sophisticated models capable of working with corporate e-mail systems. Curious software experts at Trust Digital resurrected information on nearly all the used phones, including the racy exchanges between guarded lovers. The other phones contained: _One company's plans to win a multimillion-dollar federal transportation contract. _E-mails about another firm's $50,000 payment for a software license. _Bank accounts and passwords. _Details of prescriptions and receipts for one worker's utility payments. The recovered information was equal to 27,000 pages — a stack of printouts 8 feet high. "We found just a mountain of personal and corporate data," said Nick Magliato, Trust Digital's chief executive. Many of the phones were owned personally by the sellers but crammed with sensitive corporate information, underscoring the blurring of work and home. "They don't come with a warning label that says, 'Be careful.' The data on these phones is very important," Magliato said. One phone surrendered the secrets of a chief executive at a small technology company in Silicon Valley. It included details of a pending deal with Adobe Systems Inc., and e-mail proposals from a potential Japanese partner: "If we want to be exclusive distributor in Japan, what kind of business terms you want?" asked the executive in Japan. Trust Digital surmised that the U.S. chief executive gave his old phone to a former roommate, who used it briefly then sold it for $400 on eBay. Researchers found e-mails covering different periods for both men, who used the same address until recently. Experts said giving away an old phone is commonplace. Consumers upgrade their cell phones on average about every 18 months. "Most people toss their phones after they're done; a lot of them give their old phones to family members or friends," said Miro Kazakoff, a researcher at Compete Inc. of Boston who follows mobile phone sales and trends. He said selling a used phone — which sometimes can fetch hundreds of dollars — is increasingly popular. The 10 phones Trust Digital studied represented popular models from leading manufacturers. All the phones stored information on "flash" memory chips, the same technology found in digital cameras and some music players. Flash memory is inexpensive and durable. But it is slow to erase information in ways that make it impossible to recover. So manufacturers compensate with methods that erase data less completely but don't make a phone seem sluggish. Phone manufacturers usually provide instructions for safely deleting a customer's information, but it's not always convenient or easy to find. Research in Motion Ltd. has built into newer Blackberry phones an easy-to-use wipe program. Palm Inc., which makes the popular Treo phones, puts directions deep within its Web site for what it calls a "zero out reset." It involves holding down three buttons simultaneously while pressing a fourth tiny button on the back of the phone. But it's so awkward to do that even Palm says it may take two people. A Palm executive, Joe Fabris, said the company made the process deliberately clumsy because it doesn't want customers accidentally erasing their information. Trust Digital resurrected erased e-mails and other information from a used Treo phone provided by The Associated Press for a demonstration after it was reset and appeared empty. Once the phone was reset using Palm's awkward "zero-out" technique, no information could be recovered. The AP already used that technique to protect data on its reporters' phones. "The tools are out there" for hackers and thieves to rummage through deleted data on used phones, Trust Digital's chief technology officer, Norm Laudermilch, said. "It definitely does not take a Ph.D." Fabris, Palm's director of wireless solutions, said the company may warn customers in an upcoming newsletter about the risks of selling their used phones after AP's inquiries. "It might behoove us to raise this issue," Fabris said. Dean Olmstead of Fresno, Calif., sold his Treo phone on eBay after using it six months. He didn't know about Palm's instructions to safely delete all his personal information. Now, he's worried. "I probably should have done that," Olmstead said. "Folks need to know this. I'm hoping my phone goes to a nice person." Guy Martin of Albuquerque, N.M., wasn't as concerned someone will snoop on his secrets. He also sold his Treo phone on eBay and didn't delete his information completely. "I'm not that kind of valuable person, so I'm not really worried," said Martin, who runs the http://www.imusteat.com Web site. "I guarantee that three-quarters of the people who buy these phones don't think about this." Trust Digital found no evidence thieves or corporate spies are routinely buying used phones to mine them for secrets, Magliato said. "I don't think the bad guys have figured this out yet." President Bush's former cybersecurity adviser, Howard Schmidt, carried up to four phones and e-mail devices — and said he was always careful with them. To sanitize his older Blackberry devices, Schmidt would deliberately type his password incorrectly 11 times, which caused data on them to self-destruct. "People are just not aware how much they're exposing themselves," Schmidt said. "This is more than something you pick up and talk on. This is your identity. There are people really looking to exploit this." Executives at Trust Digital agreed to review with AP the information extracted from the used phones on the condition AP would not identify the sellers or their employers. They also showed AP receipts from the Internet auctions in which they bought the 10 phones over the summer for prices between $192 and $400 each. Trust Digital said it intends to return all the phones to their original owners, and said it kept the recovered personal information on a single computer under lock and disconnected from its corporate network at its headquarters in northern Virginia. Peiter "Mudge" Zatko, a respected computer security expert, said phone owners should decide whether to auction their used equipment for a few hundred dollars — and risk revealing their secrets — or effectively toss their old phones under a large truck to dispose of them. What about a case like the Lothario whose affair Trust Digital discovered? "I'd run over the phone," Zatko said. "Maybe give it an acid bath."

30 augustus 2006, 18:45	#2
boutros gali Berichten: n/a	Re: AP Enterprise: Cell phones spill secrets [email protected] wrote in news:[email protected]: > > AP Enterprise: Cell phones spill secrets By TED BRIDIS, Hey, Shitmans, pas op, kijk achter je!

30 augustus 2006, 18:45	#3
[email protected] Berichten: n/a	Re: AP Enterprise: Cell phones spill secrets boutros gali <[email protected]> openbaarde zich in news:[email protected]. 71: > [email protected] wrote in > news:[email protected]: > >> >> AP Enterprise: Cell phones spill secrets By TED BRIDIS, > > Hey, Shitmans, pas op, kijk achter je! > daar is de lokale dorpslul, boutros gali, weer ... en vooral een naam nemen die enig aanzien dient te geven omdat jij jezelf toch zo een nul vindt! net zoals de andere dorpsclown, uncle, die in zijn geval een zwakke persoonlijkheid tracht goed te maken met bombastisch woordgebruik het wordt moeilijk natuurlijk als je niet meer in je oude omgeving vertoeft waar je qua intellect nog enigszins boven het aanwezige laagniveau kon bovenstaan ... -- "We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions" Hitler, 1 mei 1927 Freya Van den Bossche: Giechelen is aan mij niet besteed, zoals alle geëmancipeerde vrouwen heb ik ook een poetsvrouw, dat helpt. "Wie niet voor ons is is tegen ons", Hitler - de moderne versie: "Wie zijn rug keert naar links, kijkt naar rechts" Johan Vande Lanotte, 2005

30 augustus 2006, 19:25	#4
boutros gali Berichten: n/a	Re: AP Enterprise: Cell phones spill secrets [email protected] wrote in news:[email protected]: > boutros gali <[email protected]> openbaarde zich in > news:[email protected]. 71: > >> [email protected] wrote in >> news:[email protected]: > het wordt moeilijk natuurlijk als je niet meer in je oude > omgeving vertoeft waar je qua intellect nog enigszins boven > het aanwezige laagniveau kon bovenstaan ... Hey, Full, hellep mij aub, hier moet een specialist wat meer uitleg bij verstrekken. "Ich bin ein Hamburger" (of was het een Frankfurter?)

30 augustus 2006, 20:05	#5
Fullator Berichten: n/a	Re: AP Enterprise: Cell phones spill secrets On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 18:16:29 GMT, boutros gali <[email protected]> wrote: >[email protected] wrote in news:[email protected]: > >> boutros gali <[email protected]> openbaarde zich in >> news:[email protected]. 71: >> >>> [email protected] wrote in >>> news:[email protected]: > >> het wordt moeilijk natuurlijk als je niet meer in je oude >> omgeving vertoeft waar je qua intellect nog enigszins boven >> het aanwezige laagniveau kon bovenstaan ... > >Hey, Full, hellep mij aub, hier moet een specialist wat meer uitleg bij >verstrekken. > >"Ich bin ein Hamburger" >(of was het een Frankfurter?) Ik denk dat hij doelt op het zgn schoolfriksyndroom. De status van het beroep van onderwijzer is de laatste decennia danig afgekalfd, maar in de klas kunnen ze nog redelijk onuitgedaagd heersen over de horden onwetenden. De clash met de werkelijke wereld, waar ze wat tegengas krijgen, zorgt voor traumata. Hiertegen wapenen ze zich met verdedigingsmechanismen die ik niet moet illustreren, want we zien dagelijks de pijnlijke manifestaties ervan op deze nieuwsgroep. Ach, waar is de tijd dat de schoolmeester tot de notabelen van het dorp behoorde omdat hij kon lezen en schrijven, een eeuw of wat geleden. Vandaar het nostalgieke oubollige en gezwollen taalgebruik van uncle, die als een laudator temporis acti zijn plaats niet meer vindt in een wereld waarvan hij intussen volledig is gealiÃ«neerd. Opzetten en in het schoolmuseum plaatsen, tussen leien en griffels, met stofjas en al. Tot groot jolijt van de ginnegappende kinderen. Fullator

31 augustus 2006, 11:55	#6
[email protected] Berichten: n/a	Re: AP Enterprise: Cell phones spill secrets boutros gali <[email protected]> openbaarde zich in news:[email protected] .71: > [email protected] wrote in > news:[email protected]: > >> boutros gali <[email protected]> openbaarde zich in >> news:[email protected]. 71: >> >>> [email protected] wrote in >>> news:[email protected]: > >> het wordt moeilijk natuurlijk als je niet meer in je oude >> omgeving vertoeft waar je qua intellect nog enigszins >> boven het aanwezige laagniveau kon bovenstaan ... > > Hey, Full, hellep mij aub, hier moet een specialist wat > meer uitleg bij verstrekken. > > "Ich bin ein Hamburger" > (of was het een Frankfurter?) > met je radeloze vraag naar bijstand waarvoor je het perfecte antwoord reeds verkreeg heb je perfect bewezen wat de laagte van je intellect wel is ga maar met de blokjes spelen, dat is meer op jouw niveau en je kan daar zelfs bij denken dat jet 'vlaamse blokjes' zijn zodat je ze de kamer kan doorsmijten want iets anders ben je toch niet in staat met jouw niveau om er mee aan te richten -- "We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions" Hitler, 1 mei 1927 Freya Van den Bossche: Giechelen is aan mij niet besteed, zoals alle geëmancipeerde vrouwen heb ik ook een poetsvrouw, dat helpt. "Wie niet voor ons is is tegen ons", Hitler - de moderne versie: "Wie zijn rug keert naar links, kijkt naar rechts" Johan Vande Lanotte, 2005

31 augustus 2006, 20:25	#7
boutros gali Berichten: n/a	Re: AP Enterprise: Cell phones spill secrets [email protected] wrote in news:[email protected]: > > en je kan daar zelfs bij denken dat jet 'vlaamse blokjes' zijn > zodat je ze de kamer kan doorsmijten want iets anders ben je > toch niet in staat met jouw niveau om er mee aan te richten > Zeg Shitmans, zou je niet eens een inburgeringscursus gaan volgen, ik begrijp gewoon geen snars van je koeterwaalse gewauwel hierboven. Een vierjarige kleuter praat alleszins samenhangender dan jij.