De andere kant - Israel - Gaza

[Israëlisch]

Dag allemaal!

Dit is mijn eerste post hier op uw forum, las ik het de hele ochtend. Het spijt me voor mijn Vlaamse, het is erg slecht, ben ik nog steeds moeite mee.
Ik ben een gewone Israëlische levens in Israël en getrouwd met een prachtig Vlaams meisje (er want ik ben hier posten).
Het hele verhaal in de laatste paar dagen met betrekking tot de Flottielje naar Gaza heeft mij actie te ondernemen en om dit forum te plaatsen.

Ik zal eerlijk zijn en zeggen: dit bericht is geschreven met Google Language Tool en zal ik de Engels versie van mijn bericht over de bodem (ik weet zeker dat het Vlaams is niet perfect post).

Dus ....

Het eerste wat ik zou willen zeggen is dat ik niet ben hier om mijn land te rechtvaardigen, zal ik de eerste persoon te komen en zeggen: "Dit is verkeerd '(en ik moet zeggen dat er veel mensen zoals ik hier.

Maar ...
Het feit dat Israël wordt duw om de hoek en wordt gedemoniseerd is niet eerlijk en niet alleen.
Net als anderen, we willen leven in vrede met de Palestijnen, en we proberen te doen sinds 1991 (vredesconferentie in Madrid, geleid door de rechtse partij Likod).
Maar net als andere landen proberen we ook alleen maar leven! en dat te doen in deze buurt moeten we om onszelf te beschermen door middel van geweld.

Nu, een feit over het Israëlische leger dat niet veel mensen weten:
In Israël gaat iedereen naar het leger, wanneer zij 18 (jongens meisjes 3 jaar 2), maar niet iedereen gaat naar gevechtseenheden. Nu weet ik dat in de meeste landen in de wereld mensen die naar het leger meestal afkomstig zijn uit de onderkant van de sociale demografische niveau van de samenleving en ook de mensen die gaan om gevechtseenheden.
In Israël is niet zo, We zijn erg trots op onze morele leger, Een deel van de reden is dat we onze beste kinderen te sturen naar de frontlinies, doen we niet daar stuur de mensen die hadden hard leven en komen uit gezinnen harde, sturen we er de middenklasse en hoger kids, de jongens die groeiden in normatieve opgeleide huizen, meer dan dit, De strijd om de meest gevechtseenheden zijn ook zodat we de beste mensen voor deze eenheden te kiezen. Wat iedereen nu gezien op youtube, de zegels van Israël zijn niet alleen spieren zijn zij de beste die we hebben - en ik spreek niet over de beste in het doden van mensen.

Ik heb ook gediend in het Israëlische leger en ik heb ook stud in blokken en reed ik ook bij "rondvliegende kogels" situaties. en ik ben hier om u te vertellen:

Israëlische soldaten NIET schieten om te doden, tenzij ze in een levensbedreigende situatie!

Ik denk dat iedereen hier al de beelden gezien van het flottielje al en ook de soldaten aangevallen te krijgen zodat u kunt de situatie waarin ze Stud inch begrijpen

Nu kan ik gaan en schrijf hier de hele dag lang over Israël, maar ik zal hier stoppen. Ik denk dat ik reacties op dit bericht en ik zal proberen om deel te nemen als ik kan.

Mijn doel is om tonen ook de andere kant, de Israëlische zijde.

Een van de redenen waarom ik graag dit forum is omdat ik gezien dat er zijn hier veel discussies. en ik denk dat ik kan doneren aan het zo goed en voeg een kant die waarschijnlijk wordt hier niet getoond.

Ik verontschuldig me voor mijn Vlaamse, Het is niet goed genoeg en dit is de reden voeg ik de Engels versie van het.

Bij voorbaat dank.

De Israelisch

================================

English:

hello all!

This is my first post here in your forum, I was reading it the whole morning. I am sorry for my Flemish, it is very bad, I am still struggling with it.
I am an ordinary Israeli Living in Israel and married to a wonderful Flemish girl (there for I am posting here ).
The whole story in the last few days regarding the Flotilla to Gaza has made me take an action and to post this forum.

I will be honest and say this post is written with Google language tool and I will post the English version of my post on the bottom (I am sure the Flamish is not perfect).

So....

The first thing I would like to state is that I am not here to justify my country, I will be the first person to come up and say "This is wrong" (and I must say there are a lot of people like me here.

But...
The fact that Israel is being push to the corner and being demonized is not fair and not just.
Like others, we want to live in peace with the Palestinians, and we are trying to do so since 1991 (Madrid Peace conference, Led by the right wing party Likod).
But Like other countries we also try to JUST LIVE!!! and to do so in this neighborhood we need to protect ourselves by force.

Now, a fact about the Israeli army that not a lot of people know:
In Israel everyone goes to the Army when they are 18 (boys 3 years girls 2), but not every one goes to combat units. Now I know that in most countries in the world people who go to the army are usually coming from the bottom of the social demographic level of the society and also the people who go to be combat units.
In Israel is not so, We are very proud of our MORAL army, Part of the reason is that we send our best kids to the front lines, We do not send there the people who had hard life and come from hard families, we send there the middle class kids and above, the guys that grew in normative educated houses, More then this, The fight to get to the most combat units are also allowing us to choose the best people for these units. What every one seen on youtube now, the Seals of Israel are not just muscles they are the best we have - and I am not talking about best in killing people.

I also served in the Israeli Army and I also stud in rode blocks and I also been to "Flying bullets" situations. and I am here to tell you:

ISRAELI SOLDIERS DO NOT SHOOT TO KILL UNLESS THEY ARE IN A LIFE THREATENING SITUATION!!!

I guess every one here already seen the images of the flotilla already and also the soldiers get attacked so you can understand the situation they stud in.

Now I can go on and write here all day long about Israel but I will stop here. I believe that I will have comments on this post and I will try to participate as I can.

My goal is to show also the OTHER SIDE, The Israeli side.

One of the reasons I liked this forum is because I seen there are great discussions here. and I think I can donate to it as well and add a side that is probably not shown here.

I apologize for my Flemish, It is not good enough and this is the reason I add the English version of it.

Thanks in advance.

The Israelisch

[Cdude]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Israëlisch

ISRAELI SOLDIERS DO NOT SHOOT TO KILL UNLESS THEY ARE IN A LIFE THREATENING SITUATION!!!

That's a lie and the hundreds of dead children, shot at point blank range, bullet holes in the head are evidence of that evil statement.
Israel also didn't use fosfor grenades I suppose?

IDFs do what they like. When nobody's watching they treat Palestinians like dirt, point guns at their children and even let them die when in need of medical attention.

1- You're opinion is biased
2 - U weren't there
3- U live on stolen land.

"Seals are the best we have"

The best u have, armed with only a paintball gun?
U must takes u all for FOOLS if u expect us to believe that.

He was one of the first soldiers to climb down a rope from a helicopter, he said, and had gone only with "bare hands" - no weapons. He qualified that, saying he had taken a civilian paint-ball gun "that any 12-year-old can play with".

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1225874714916

Lies lies and more lies. NEVER has the IDF taken ANY responsibility for ANY crime they commited.
And now this, obviously fake letter from a "real Israely"
Nice try HASBARA

[Israëlisch]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Cdude

That's a lie and the hundreds of dead children, shot at point blank range, bullet holes in the head are evidence of that evil statement.
Israel also didn't use fosfor grenades I suppose?

IDFs do what they like. When nobody's watching they treat Palestinians like dirt, point guns at their children and even let them die when in need of medical attention.

1- You're opinion is biased
2 - U weren't there
3- U live on stolen land.

1- Do you think because you live in an other country your opinion is not biased? every body is biased on this story.
I stated earlier that I am here to open a discussion and not just to through allegations so....
2- I was there, I was stationed in Gaza I seen how they live, I got shoot by them and we risked our lives in order NOT to shoot at kids that through on us home made Molotov bottles.
3- Stolen from who? We immigrated just like other people migrate from country to country (you must know it was after we had no land to our selves and almost got annihilated by the Nazis), This is a totally different discussion that I would be happy to elaborate, a bit about history.

PS.
Have you ever been here? (Israel/West bank/Gaza)

[Israëlisch]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Cdude

"Seals are the best we have"

The best u have, armed with only a paintball gun?
U must takes u all for FOOLS if u expect us to believe that.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1225874714916

Lies lies and more lies. NEVER has the IDF taken ANY responsibility for ANY crime they commited.
And now this, obviously fake letter from a "real Israely"
Nice try HASBARA

OK, Lets think a bit,
Do you think that if they went in with a machine gun there would be only 9 dead????

[Cdude]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Israëlisch

1- Do you think because you live in an other country your opinion is not biased? every body is biased on this story.
I stated earlier that I am here to open a discussion and not just to through allegations so....
2- I was there, I was stationed in Gaza I seen how they live, I got shoot by them and we risked our lives in order NOT to shoot at kids that through on us home made Molotov bottles.
3- Stolen from who? We immigrated just like other people migrate from country to country (you must know it was after we had no land to our selves and almost got annihilated by the Nazis), This is a totally different discussion that I would be happy to elaborate, a bit about history.

PS.
Have you ever been here? (Israel/West bank/Gaza)

Get over it. It has been +60 years ago. MILLIONS more NON Jews died by the Nazi's.
It still doesn't give u the right to do the same thing with the Palestines by creating a ghetto and depriving them from necessities during the last 3 YEARS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust_Industry

[backfire]

don't .. feed .. the .. troll

[Israëlisch]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Cdude

Lies lies and more lies. NEVER has the IDF taken ANY responsibility for ANY crime they commited.
And now this, obviously fake letter from a "real Israely"
Nice try HASBARA

I wish Israeli HASBARA would be as good as me
We suck at it and this is excellently why you already made your mind and not even willing to see the other side

In Israel we have to sides to every coin what about Belgium?

[Cdude]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Israëlisch

OK, Lets think a bit,
Do you think that if they went in with a machine gun there would be only 9 dead????

So, they killed those 9 with a paintball gun u say?

INTERNATIONAL WATERS, +50 MILES OFF COAST!!!Or do international treaties don't count for Jews?

Oh right, The Holocaust, how can I forget.

[Israëlisch]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Cdude

Get over it. It has been +60 years ago. MILLIONS more NON Jews died by the Nazi's.
It still doesn't give u the right to do the same thing with the Palestines by creating a ghetto and depriving them from necessities during the last 3 YEARS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust_Industry

I got over it! But it does not mean I have not learn my lesson.
Now regarding the "Palestinian" lets ask an other question, What Palestinians are you talking about? The one that in Gaza Shooting rockets at Israelis City? or the one in the west bank sitting and talking peace with us as we speak here?

[Cdude]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Israëlisch

I wish Israeli HASBARA would be as good as me
We suck at it and this is excellently why you already made your mind and not even willing to see the other side

In Israel we have to sides to every coin what about Belgium?

Hey, I read Jewish AND international papers, watch images from IDF AND passengers. What do u do to keep "an open mind" ?
Where are the IDF images from DURING THE SHOOTINGS? Did they run out of tape?

Why is there, EVEN ON JEWISH PRESS, an information stop, dictated by the IDF?
Who is trying to hide what?

[Israëlisch]

you want to talk international marine law?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interna...manitarian_Law
I can also quaot from WIKI, San Ramo for international marine law says clearly that a ship tryng to brake a navel blockade can be stopped.

[Cdude]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Israëlisch

I got over it! But it does not mean I have not learn my lesson.
Now regarding the "Palestinian" lets ask an other question, What Palestinians are you talking about? The one that in Gaza Shooting rockets at Israelis City? or the one in the west bank sitting and talking peace with us as we speak here?

It seems like you've learned your lesson VERY well and are now imposing the same on the Palestines.
Take away peoples future, indiscriminate COLLECTIVE punishment, letting people die on checkponts, illegal settlements, destruction of property, ...

What would u do? Lay on your back and die?

[ShoshannaKimberley]

Beste Israêlisch,

Baruch Haba haver!

I don't have the time to read all your posts right now but I will certainly do so a bit later.

[Cdude]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Israëlisch

you want to talk international marine law?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interna...manitarian_Law
I can also quaot from WIKI, San Ramo for international marine law says clearly that a ship tryng to brake a navel blockade can be stopped.

Wéélllllllll,
Besides the "forgotten" point that the blockade is Illegal (Gaza is NOT Israeli territory), it was WELL away from the blockade parameters.

Oeps, forgotten details? Useless efford. We have been through all of this the last few days.

[Israëlisch]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Cdude

Hey, I read Jewish AND international papers, watch images from IDF AND passengers. What do u do to keep "an open mind" ?
Where are the IDF images from DURING THE SHOOTINGS? Did they run out of tape?

Why is there, EVEN ON JEWISH PRESS, an information stop, dictated by the IDF?
Who is trying to hide what?

1 - In order to keep an open mind I send my time talking to you!, I think it is very open mind, Unfortunately not a lot of Israelis do the same.
2 - You still not answer the question if you ever been here? have you?
3 - I also read other papers, like the CNN Sky news, VRT (Belgium) and more.
4 - If you have been here you would have known that this is a democracy, it is not a third world country, We put our prime ministers on court for corruption, and we do punish our soldiers if they have done wrong things.

[Cdude]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Israëlisch

1 - In order to keep an open mind I send my time talking to you!, I think it is very open mind, Unfortunately not a lot of Israelis do the same.
2 - You still not answer the question if you ever been here? have you?
3 - I also read other papers, like the CNN Sky news, VRT (Belgium) and more.
4 - If you have been here you would have known that this is a democracy, it is not a third world country, We put our prime ministers on court for corruption, and we do punish our soldiers if they have done wrong things.

Believing your own propaganda is when it becomes really dangerous.." Is something I've read in a JEWISH newspaper(see other thread)

The subject is what happenend(ens) in Gaza, not my travel history.
U still haven't answered one singel question about the subject.

Where are the IDF images from DURING THE SHOOTINGS? Did they run out of tape?

Why is there, EVEN ON JEWISH PRESS, an information stop, dictated by the IDF?
Who is trying to hide what?

[Cdude]

Just to refreshen your memory (Credit to Jean-Pierre)

Demands grow for Gaza war crimes investigation
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...ael-war-crimes

The Israeli military are accused of:
• Using powerful shells in civilian areas which the army knew would cause large numbers of innocent casualties;
• Using banned weapons such as phosphorus bombs;
• Holding Palestinian families as human shields;
• Attacking medical facilities, including the killing of 12 ambulance men in marked vehicles;
• Killing large numbers of police who had no military role.

[Israëlisch]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Cdude

Wéélllllllll,
Besides the "forgotten" point that the blockade is Illegal (Gaza is NOT Israeli territory), it was WELL away from the blockade parameters.

Oeps, forgotten details? Useless effort. We have been through all of this the last few days.

Look all I am trying is to open your mind, When you say "blockade is Illegal" what do you mean? Illegal to whom? From my side we are in a state of war with Gaza and we have to do every thing in order to protect our selves, Wouldn't you do the same?
And regarding the illegal part a sea blockade is a legitimate part of war.

Leave the fact that we supply Gaza with all the humanitarian needs. have you ever asked your self how come you never heard about starvation in gaza or people die from lack of medicine?

If you would open your mind you need to ask your self the hard questions not only the easy ones.


and one more thing:
http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/mideast...es/001114.html
Life don't seems so bad in Gaza from here...

here is the original link of the Palestinian paper:
http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=285242

Maan is the Palestinian news agency.

[Rr00ttt]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Israëlisch

In Israel we have to sides to every coin what about Belgium?

Belgian media is very much biased against Israel.

[ShoshannaKimberley]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Israëlisch

Have you ever been here? (Israel/West bank/Gaza)

Good question

Did you get any answers?

PS: I have been in the area quite a few times. Love it there.