Re: Royal: ma =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22premi=E8re_loi=22_sera_=22?==?ISO-8859-1?Q?contre_les_violences_faites_aux_femmes=22?=

26 november 2006, 12:35

thomas a écrit :
> http://fr.news.yahoo.com/24112006/20...aites-aux.html
>
> Franchement ça part d'un bon sentiment mais il n'y a pas plus urgent?
>
>

Plus de lois (il y a déj�* des circonstances aggravantes dans la loi pour
ce genre de violence, mariez-vous!), plus de bavures, plus de maris
présumés coupables...

Les homicides conjugaux [Wiki]

Les homicides entre conjoints représentent environ 20 % des homicides au
Canada, les trois quarts des victimes étant des femmes (soit 12 % des
homicides). Une étude aux États-Unis a montré que dans les homicides
conjugaux, il y avait autant de victimes masculines (maricide) que
féminines (uxoricide), mais que dans 60 % des morts masculins, la femme
se défendait de la violence de son mari.

En France a été publié en 2005 le Recensement des morts violentes
survenues au sein du couple en 2003 et 2004, qui dénombre 46 hommes et
163 femmes tués, soit 22% et 78% du total. Les suicides suite au meurtre
du conjoint sont plus fréquents parmi les hommes (23 % soit 10 hommes
sur 46) que parmi les femmes (4 % soit 6 femmes sur 163) (cf violences
conjugales 2005). Il convient cependant de mettre en rapport ces
chiffres avec la cause initiale du meurtre (jalousie, bagarre, etc.).

The general consensus seems to be that male on female domestic violence
is more likely to result in serious injury or death, whereas female on
male (which, under the definition used by the UK Government if no
others, includes preventing the father seeing the children), is more
likely to result in male suicide. Men on average have more upper body
strength and socialization that predisposes them to resort to violence
more than women do, and that can give them a higher average lethality
than women. However, women can and do use weapons to equalize whatever
deficit in physical power which may be present, and can also use social
constraints against men hitting women even in self-defence, to provide
them with sufficient lethality to be dangerous in conflict situations.

The oft-repeated claim that all violence by women is self-defence has
similarly been proven to be based on circular reasoning. Women also are
at least as well equipped to use psychological violence that forms a
pattern of coercive and controlling behaviour (to use the Women's Aid
definition given above). Women are also equally capable of using a
proxy, which would further skew the results (since a proxy murder is not
recorded as a case of domestic violence.)

Inutilité des lois et services sociaux :

This suggests that, ironically, male abusers have benefited from
domestic violence reforms, and are less likely to be killed by their
partners since women are no longer faced with murder as their "only
option" to escape the violence. At the same time, men continue to kill
their female partners at almost the same rate. This suggests that
reforms in the civil and criminal system and social services to battered
women have not impacted the fundamental causes of domestic violence.
Although some presume that this indicates a gendered nature of the
problem, the lack of success may itself be a result of overly simplistic
gender-assumptions on the nature of violence (see notes on the Duluth
model in the 'Response to domestic violence' section).

26 november 2006, 12:45

"Bertrand" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email protected]...

Salut,

Ok.
Elle sera de gauche avec une partie de la population et contre les autres.
C'est une vraie de vraie socialiste ca !

TortueNinja

26 november 2006, 20:25

"Bertrand" a écrit dans le message de news:
> thomas a écrit :
>> http://fr.news.yahoo.com/24112006/20...aites-aux.html
>>
>> Franchement ça part d'un bon sentiment mais il n'y a pas plus urgent?

Et ensuite ce seront des quotas pour les femmes... Quand t'es
incapable d'y arriver �* la force du poignet, tu prends la bande des pneus
crevés.
MH

26 november 2006, 12:35	#1
Bertrand Berichten: n/a	Re: Royal: ma =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22premi=E8re_loi=22_sera_=22?==?ISO-8859-1?Q?contre_les_violences_faites_aux_femmes=22?= thomas a écrit : > http://fr.news.yahoo.com/24112006/20...aites-aux.html > > Franchement ça part d'un bon sentiment mais il n'y a pas plus urgent? > > Plus de lois (il y a déj�* des circonstances aggravantes dans la loi pour ce genre de violence, mariez-vous!), plus de bavures, plus de maris présumés coupables... Les homicides conjugaux [Wiki] Les homicides entre conjoints représentent environ 20 % des homicides au Canada, les trois quarts des victimes étant des femmes (soit 12 % des homicides). Une étude aux États-Unis a montré que dans les homicides conjugaux, il y avait autant de victimes masculines (maricide) que féminines (uxoricide), mais que dans 60 % des morts masculins, la femme se défendait de la violence de son mari. En France a été publié en 2005 le Recensement des morts violentes survenues au sein du couple en 2003 et 2004, qui dénombre 46 hommes et 163 femmes tués, soit 22% et 78% du total. Les suicides suite au meurtre du conjoint sont plus fréquents parmi les hommes (23 % soit 10 hommes sur 46) que parmi les femmes (4 % soit 6 femmes sur 163) (cf violences conjugales 2005). Il convient cependant de mettre en rapport ces chiffres avec la cause initiale du meurtre (jalousie, bagarre, etc.). The general consensus seems to be that male on female domestic violence is more likely to result in serious injury or death, whereas female on male (which, under the definition used by the UK Government if no others, includes preventing the father seeing the children), is more likely to result in male suicide. Men on average have more upper body strength and socialization that predisposes them to resort to violence more than women do, and that can give them a higher average lethality than women. However, women can and do use weapons to equalize whatever deficit in physical power which may be present, and can also use social constraints against men hitting women even in self-defence, to provide them with sufficient lethality to be dangerous in conflict situations. The oft-repeated claim that all violence by women is self-defence has similarly been proven to be based on circular reasoning. Women also are at least as well equipped to use psychological violence that forms a pattern of coercive and controlling behaviour (to use the Women's Aid definition given above). Women are also equally capable of using a proxy, which would further skew the results (since a proxy murder is not recorded as a case of domestic violence.) Inutilité des lois et services sociaux : This suggests that, ironically, male abusers have benefited from domestic violence reforms, and are less likely to be killed by their partners since women are no longer faced with murder as their "only option" to escape the violence. At the same time, men continue to kill their female partners at almost the same rate. This suggests that reforms in the civil and criminal system and social services to battered women have not impacted the fundamental causes of domestic violence. Although some presume that this indicates a gendered nature of the problem, the lack of success may itself be a result of overly simplistic gender-assumptions on the nature of violence (see notes on the Duluth model in the 'Response to domestic violence' section).

26 november 2006, 12:45	#2
tortueninja Berichten: n/a	Re: Royal: ma "première loi" sera "contre les violences faites aux femmes" "Bertrand" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news: [email protected]... Salut, Ok. Elle sera de gauche avec une partie de la population et contre les autres. C'est une vraie de vraie socialiste ca ! TortueNinja

26 november 2006, 20:25	#3
MH Berichten: n/a	Re: Royal: ma "première loi" sera "contre les violences faites aux femmes" "Bertrand" a écrit dans le message de news: > thomas a écrit : >> http://fr.news.yahoo.com/24112006/20...aites-aux.html >> >> Franchement ça part d'un bon sentiment mais il n'y a pas plus urgent? Et ensuite ce seront des quotas pour les femmes... Quand t'es incapable d'y arriver �* la force du poignet, tu prends la bande des pneus crevés. MH