De nieuwe wereld orde

[lombas]

Het gaat ier rap gedaan zijn.

Ik zie u graag weer, in K&K bij't goed weer.

[Lex Blanca]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door lombas

Het gaat ier rap gedaan zijn.

Ik zie u graag weer, in K&K bij't goed weer.

Dude lijn eens duidelijk uit voor jezelf wat je zo ergert aan deze draad.Stel jezelf daarna de vraag een hoe groot deel van deze draad hetgeen je dusdanig stoort dat je meermaals oppert om de langst lopende draad bij internationale politiek naar K&K te verplaatsen inneemt.
Post dat eerst eens.

[PetSel]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Lex Blanca

Dude lijn eens duidelijk uit voor jezelf wat je zo ergert aan deze draad.Stel jezelf daarna de vraag een hoe groot deel van deze draad hetgeen je dusdanig stoort dat je meermaals oppert om de langst lopende draad bij internationale politiek naar K&K te verplaatsen inneemt.
Post dat eerst eens.

Zie mijn bovenstaande post.

[exodus]

Wat een zagen hier allemaal. U moet gewoon de draad niet aanklikken, zo simpel is het!!!

[democratsteve]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door exodus

Wat een zagen hier allemaal. U moet gewoon de draad niet aanklikken, zo simpel is het!!!

En dan nog vooral van WIE deze opmerkingen komen.
Je moet op andere draden eens kijken naar het niveau van de posts van die lombas en petsel.
Vooral die petsel. Heb eens snel z'n laatste 20 posts bekeken.
D'r is denk ik één post bij die meer dan één regel beslaat.

[Lex Blanca]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door PetSel

Zie mijn bovenstaande post.

HIer komt het dan...

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door PetSel

Alleen irriteert het mij enorm dat 30% van je posts (in deze topic) gewoon spam posts zijn.

Dus omdat jij 30% van de posts (op de NWO draad) van 1 van de posters! op de deze draad! (Pindar) als spam ziet moet de draad verplaatst worden naar K&K....
Geef toe:"Zielige zagevent" zou een understatement zijn om jou en je posts op deze en vorige p. te omvatten.
Zelfkennis is de basis van...
Je eigen fouten inzien getuigt van...

[democratsteve]

Hoe zou het ondertussen zitten met Stone haar passagierslijsten met al die moslims op?

[democratsteve]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door lombas

Daar interesseer ik me ook niet in, en dat past ook volledig in dit kader van Internationale Politiek, of ik het nu eens ben met je stellingen of niet.

Ik wil hier geen gelijk halen: er valt geen gelijk te rapen. Punt is dat hier dingen gepost worden die niets met Internationale Politiek te maken hebben, het is hier een soort pseudo-subforum geworden waar alle dubieuze en sub-wetenschappelijke theorieën maar kunnen verspreid worden.

Dat mag, maar in K&K, niet hier.

Laten we nu eens ernstig (kan jij dat?) op uw suggestie voortgaan.
U opent een topic.
Pindar (of wie dan ook) komt daar 2 postings doen die (naar uw mening) niets met de draad te maken hebben.
Dan moet UW draad dus verplaatst worden naar K&K omdat iemand ANDERS daar posts heeft geplaatst die off-topic waren.
Vertel ons nu eens waar jij hier enige logica in ziet.

[puud]

Een beetje late reactie

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door democratsteve

Ik heb hier al menige keren gevraagd aan 'disbelievers' om eens één onweerlegbaar bewijs te geven dat uberhaupt kapers aanwezig waren op de gedoemde vluchten.

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door exodus

Idd, er is geen enkel rechtstreeks bewijs dat de genoemde "kapers" echt de aanslagen gepleegd hebben. En de aanwijzingen die er zijn ruiken naar gefabriceerdheid van uren in de wind...
Of de GSM gesprekken...

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door democratsteve

Zonder in detail te gaan op de verschillende telefoontjes....
Er is geen enkel bewijs dat ook maar één van die telefoontjes vanop de gedoemde vluchten is gemaakt. Ik herhaal , geen enkel bewijs!

Bron ‘Der Spiegel’: Reservatie tickets
26 augustus 2001
Waleed en Wail Alshehri kopen tickets voor American Airlines vlucht 11 naar Los Angeles, via internet gekocht met een Sun Trust Visa-creditcard op een gemeenschappelijk postbusadres in Hollywood, Florida, afgerekend met twee verschillende Visa-creditcards.

26 augustus 2001
Ahmed en Hamza Alghamdi kopen tickets voor United Airlines vlucht 175, enkele reis voor 1760 dollar per stuk. Ze gaven een gezamenlijke postbus op in Delray Beach, Florida

27 augustus 2001
Alsheri en Fayez Ahmed reserveerden tickets voor een enkele reis naar Los Angeles, United Airlines vlucht 175, first class, kosten per ticket 4464,50 dollar; als contactadres gaven ze een postbus in Delray Beach, Florida, op.

28 augustus 2001
Piloot Marwan-Al-Shehhi heeft voor zijn vliegticket Airlines vlucht 175,1600 dollar contant betaald aan een ticketbalie van United Airlines op de luchthaven van Miami.

28 augustus 2001
Mohammed Atta en Abdulaziz Alomari reserveerden hun tickets, business class, American Airlines vlucht 11, via internet, verrekend via Atta’s drie dagen eerder geopende rekeningnummer 6H26L04.

Hieronder 42 aanduidingen/bewijzen van kapers/telefoons
Bron: http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/

[SIZE=4]FLIGHT 11[/SIZE]
(5:53 a.m.): Two Hijackers Caught on Video as They Board a Flight to Boston
Hijackers Mohamed Atta and Abdulaziz Alomari board a Colgan Air flight from Portland, Maine, to Boston, Massachusetts. A security camera captures Atta and Alomari going through security at the Portland airport.
(OK geen bewijs dat Atta op Vlucht 11 zat. Wel een bewijs dat hij op het vliegveld van Boston was. Boston waaruit vlucht 11 vertrok)

(7:00 a.m.-7:45 a.m.): Computer Screening Program Selects Some Hijackers; Fails to Stop Them
Sometime during this period, the hijackers pass through airport security checkpoints at the various airports. The FAA has a screening program in place called the Computer Assisted Passenger Prescreening System (CAPPS). CAPPS automatically targets passengers for additional screening based on suspicious behavior such as buying one-way tickets or paying with cash. If a passenger is selected, their bags are thoroughly screened for explosives, but their bodies are not searched. CAPPS selects three of the five Flight 11 hijackers. Since Waleed Alshehri checked no bags, his selection had no consequences. Wail Alshehri and Satam Al Suqami have their bags scanned for explosives, but are not stopped. No Flight 175 hijackers are selected. Only Ahmad Alhaznawi is selected from Flight 93. His bag is screened for explosives, but he is not stopped. The 9/11 Commission later concludes that Alhaznawi and Ahmed Alnami, also headed to Flight 93, have suspicious indicators and that they could have been linked to al-Qaeda upon inspection, but it has not been explained why or how. Screening of the Flight 77 hijackers is described below
(Before 7:59 a.m.): Inter Flight Phone Call Between Hijackers
Hijacker Mohamed Atta on Flight 11 calls hijacker Marwan Alshehhi in Flight 175 as both planes sit on the runway. They presumably confirm the plot is on.

(8:21 a.m.): Flight 11 Attendant Ong Phones in Hijack Report, Officials Doubt Validity
Flight 11 attendant Betty Ong calls Vanessa Minter, an American Airlines reservations agent in North Carolina, using a seatback Airfone from the back of the plane. Ong speaks to Minter and an unidentified man for about two minutes. Then supervisor Nydia Gonzalez is patched in to the conference call as well. Ong says, “The cockpit's not answering. Somebody's stabbed in business class and ... I think there's mace ... that we can't breathe. I don't know, I think We're getting hijacked.” A minute later, she continues, “And the cockpit is not answering their phone. And there's somebody stabbed in business class. And there's ... we can't breathe in business class. Somebody's got mace or something ... I'm sitting in the back. Somebody's coming back from business. If you can hold on for one second, they're coming back.” As this quote shows, other flight attendants relay information from the front of the airplane to Ong sitting in the back, and she periodically waits for updates. She goes on, “I think the guys are up there [in the cockpit]. They might have gone there—jammed the way up there, or something. Nobody can call the cockpit. We can't even get inside.” The first four and a half minutes of the call is later played in a public 9/11 Commission hearing. Ong apparently continues speaking to Gonzalez and Minter until the plane crashes. 9/11 Commissioner Bob Kerrey, who has heard more recordings than have been made public, says that some officials on the ground greet her account skeptically: “They did not believe her. They said, ‘Are you sure?’ They asked her to confirm that it wasn't air-rage. Our people on the ground were not prepared for a hijacking.”

8:21 a.m.: Sweeney's Call Reaches American Headquarters, but Managers Cover Up the News
American Airlines Flight service manager Michael Woodward is listening to Flight 11 attendant Amy Sweeney on the telephone, and he wants to pass on the information he is hearing from her. Since there is no tape recorder, he calls Nancy Wyatt, the supervisor of pursers at Logan Airport. Holding telephones in both hands, he repeats to Wyatt everything that Sweeney is saying to him. Wyatt in turn simultaneously transmits his account to the airline's Fort Worth, Texas, headquarters. The conversation between Wyatt and managers at headquarters is recorded. All vital details from Sweeney's call reach American Airlines' top management almost instantly. However, according to victims' relatives who later hear this recording, the two managers at headquarters immediately begin discussing a cover-up of the hijacking details. They say, “don't spread this around. Keep it close,” “Keep it quiet,” and “Let's keep this among ourselves. What else can we find out from our own sources about what's going on?” One former American Airlines employee who has also heard this recording recalls, “In Fort Worth, two managers in SOC [Systems Operations Control] were sitting beside each other and hearing it. They were both saying, ‘Do not pass this along. Let's keep it right here. Keep it among the five of us.’ ” Apparently, this decision prevents early and clear evidence of a hijacking from being shared during the crisis. Gerard Arpey, American Airlines' executive vice president for operations, soon hears details of the hijacking from flight attendant Betty Ong's phone call (see (8:21 a.m.)) at 8:30 a.m. (see 8:30 a.m.), but apparently, he does not learn of Sweeney's call until much later. Victims' relatives will later question whether lives could have been saved if only this information had been quickly shared with other airplanes.

(8:22 a.m.): Flight 11 Attendant Sweeney Phones in Hijacking Details
Flight 11 attendant Amy (Madeline) Sweeney borrows a calling card from flight attendant Sara Low and uses an Airfone to try to call the American Airlines flight services office at Boston's Logan Airport. She makes her first attempt at 8:22 a.m., but this quickly disconnects, as does a second attempt at 8:24. Further attempts at 8:25 and 8:29 are cut off after she reports someone hurt on the flight. The respondent to the call mistakenly thinks Sweeney's flight number that she reports is 12. Hearing there is a problem with an American Airlines plane, Michael Woodward, an American Airlines flight service manager, goes to American's gate area at the airport with a colleague, and realizes Flight 12 has not yet departed. He returns to the office to try to clarify the situation, then takes the phone and speaks to Sweeney himself. Because Woodward and Sweeney are friends, he does not have to verify the call is not a hoax. The call is not recorded, but Woodward takes detailed notes. According to the 9/11 Commission, the call between them lasts about 12 minutes, from 8:32 a.m. to 8:44 a.m. Accounts prior to the 9/11 Commission report spoke of one continuous call from around 8:20. Sweeney calmly tells Woodward, “Listen, and listen to me very carefully. I'm on Flight 11. The airplane has been hijacked.” According to one account, she gives him the seat locations of three hijackers: 9D, 9G, and 10B. She says they are all of Middle Eastern descent, and one speaks English very well. Another account states that she identifies four hijackers (but still not the five said to be on the plane), and notes that not all the seats she gave matched up with the seats assigned to the hijackers on their tickets. She says she cannot contact the cockpit, and does not believe the pilots are flying the plane any longer. According to a later Los Angeles Times report, “Even as she was relating details about the hijackers, the men were storming the front of the plane and ‘had just gained access to the cockpit,’ ” (Note that Sweeney witnesses the storming of the cockpit at least seven minutes after radio contact from Flight 11 stops and at least one of the hijackers begins taking control of the cockpit.) She says the hijackers have stabbed the two first-class flight attendants, Barbara Arestegui and Karen Martin. She adds, “A hijacker cut the throat of a business-class passenger [later identified as Daniel Lewin], and he appears to be dead (see (Before 8:20 a.m.)).” She also says the hijackers have brought a bomb into the cockpit. Woodward asks Sweeney, “How do you know it's a bomb?” She answers, “Because the hijackers showed me a bomb.” She describes its yellow and red wires. Sweeney continues talking with Woodward until Flight 11 crashes.

(8:23 a.m.): Flight 11 Attendant Ong's Hijacking Account Forwarded to American Airlines Headquarters
Nydia Gonzalez, an American Airlines supervisor with expertise on security matters, is patched in to a call with flight attendant Betty Ong on Flight 11. At 8:27 a.m., Gonzalez calls Craig Marquis, a manager at American Airlines' headquarters. Gonzalez holds the phone to Ong to one ear, and the phone to Marquis to the other. Gonzalez talks to Marquis continuously until Flight 11 crashes. The first four minutes of this call are later played before the 9/11 Commission. Marquis quickly says, “I'm assuming they've declared an emergency. Let me get ATC [air traffic control] on here. Stand by. ... Okay, We're contacting the flight crew now and We're ... We're also contacting ATC.” In the four recorded minutes, Gonzalez relays that Ong is saying the hijackers from seats 2A and 2B are in the cockpit with the pilots. There are no doctors on board. All the first class passengers have been moved to the coach section. The airplane is flying very erratically.

(8:24 a.m.): Boston Flight Controllers Hear Flight 11 Hijacker: We Have Some Planes
Because the talkback button on Flight 11 has been activated, Boston flight controllers can hear a hijacker on Flight 11 say to the passengers: “We have some planes. Just stay quiet and you will be OK. We are returning to the airport.” Flight controller Pete Zalewski responds, “Who's trying to call me?” The hijacker continues, “Everything will be OK. If you try to make any moves you'll endanger yourself and the airplane. Just stay quiet.” Immediately after hearing this voice, Zalewski “knew right then that he was working a hijack” and calls for his supervisor. The frequency of Flight 11 is played on speakers so everyone in Boston flight control can hear.

(Before 8:26 a.m.): Hijackers Identified by Seat Locations
Having been told by flight attendant Amy Sweeney the seat locations of three hijackers (see (8:22 a.m.)), American Airlines Flight service manager Michael Woodward orders a colleague at Boston's Logan Airport to look up those seat locations on the reservations computer. The names, addresses, phone numbers, and credit cards of these hijackers are quickly identified: Abdulaziz Alomari is in 9G, Mohamed Atta is in 9D, and Satam Al Suqami is in 10B. 9/11 Commissioner Bob Kerrey notes that from this information, American Airlines officials monitoring the call would probably have known or assumed right away that the hijacking was connected to al-Qaeda.

(Between 8:27-8:30 a.m.): Ong Gives Flight 11 Details; Seating Accounts Differ
Craig Marquis, listening to information coming from flight attendant Betty Ong on Flight 11, calls American Airlines' system operations control center in Fort Worth. He says, “She said two flight attendants had been stabbed, one was on oxygen. A passenger had his throat slashed and looked dead and they had gotten into the cockpit.” He relays that Ong said the four hijackers had come from first-class seats: 2A, 2B, 9A, and 9B. She said the wounded passenger was in seat 10B. Note that this conflicts with the seats flight attendant Amy Sweeney gives for the hijackers at about the same time (see (Before 8:26 a.m.)): 9D, 9G, and 10B. By 8:27 a.m., this information is passed to Gerard Arpey, the effective head of American Airlines that morning. By 9:59 a.m., counterterrorism “tsar” Richard Clarke and other top officials receive the information.

(8:34 a.m.): Boston Flight Control Hears Hijacker Announcement
Flight controllers hear a hijacker on Flight 11 say to the passengers: “Nobody move, please, we are going back to the airport. Don't try to make any stupid moves.” Apparently, shortly after this, the transmission tapes that are automatically recorded are played back to hear the words that were spoken by the hijackers a few minutes before. Everyone in the Boston flight control center hears the hijackers say, “We have some planes.” Ben Sliney, the FAA's National Operations Manager, soon gets word of the “We have some planes” message and later says the phrase haunts him all morning.

(8:36 a.m.): Flight 11 Attendants Ong and Sweeney Report Plane Maneuvers
On Flight 11, flight attendant Betty Ong reports that the plane tilts all the way on one side and then becomes horizontal again. Flight attendant Amy Sweeney reports that the plane has begun a rapid descent. Sweeney also says that the hijackers are Middle Easterners.

(8:45-8:46 a.m.): Flight 11 Attendants Calm as End Approaches
Flight attendant Amy Sweeney is still on the phone with Michael Woodward, describing conditions on Flight 11. The plane is nearing New York City, but the coach section passengers are still quiet, apparently unaware a hijacking is in progress. Woodward asks Sweeney to look out of the window and see if she can tell where they are. She replies, “I see the water. I see the building. I see buildings.” She tells him the plane is flying very low. Then she takes a slow, deep breath and slowly, calmly says, “Oh my God!” Woodward hears a loud click, and then silence. Flight attendant Betty Ong, on another phone, apparently does not realize what is about to happen. She is repeatedly saying, “Pray for us. Pray for us,” before her phone call comes to a halt.

8:46 a.m.: Flight 11 Hits the North Tower of the World Trade Center

[SIZE=4]FLIGHT 175[/SIZE]
8:14 a.m.: Flight 175 Takes Off 16 Minutes Late

(8:52 a.m.): Flight 175 Passenger Details Stabbing
Businessman Peter Hanson calls his father from Flight 175 and says, “Oh, my God! They just stabbed the airline hostess. I think the airline is being hijacked.” Despite being cut off twice, he manages to report how men armed with knives are stabbing flight attendants, apparently in an attempt to force crewmembers to unlock the doors to the cockpit. He calls again a couple of minutes before the plane crashes. Hanson's father immediately calls the local police department and relays what he heard.

8:58 a.m.: Flight 175 Passenger Says Passengers Want to Do Something About Hijacking
Brian Sweeney, a passenger on Flight 175, calls his wife, but can only leave a message. “We've been hijacked, and it doesn't look too good.” Then he calls his mother and tells her what is happening onboard. She recalls him saying, “They might come back here. I might have to go. We are going to try to do something about this.” She also recalls him identifying the hijackers as Middle Eastern. Then he tells his mother he loves her and hangs up the phone. The mother turns on the television and soon sees Flight 175 crash into the WTC. The 9/11 Commission later concludes that the Flight 175 passengers planned to storm the cockpit but did not have time before the plane crashed.

9:00 a.m.: Flight 175 Passenger Brian Sweeney Predicts Crash into Building
Flight 175 passenger Brian Sweeney calls his parents a second time, and says to his father, “It's getting bad, Dad—A stewardess was stabbed—They seem to have knives and Mace—They said they have a bomb—It's getting very bad on the plane—Passengers are throwing up and getting sick—The plane is making jerky movements—I don't think the pilot is flying the plane—I think we are going down—I think they intend to go to Chicago or someplace and fly into a building—don't worry, Dad—If it happens, it'll be very fast—My God, my God.”

9:03 a.m.: Flight 175 Crashes into WTC South Tower; Millions Watch Live on Television

[SIZE=4]FLIGHT 77[/SIZE]
7:18 a.m.: Hijack Suspects Set Off Airport Alarms; Allowed to Board Anyway
According to a security video apparently viewed by the 9/11 Commission, Flight 77 hijackers Majed Moqed and Khalid Almihdhar pass through a security checkpoint at Washington's Dulles International Airport. They are selected by the CAPPS program for closer inspection. While their carry-on bags fail to set off any alarms, both set off alarms when passing through the magnetometer. They are directed to a second magnetometer. Almihdhar passes, but Moqed fails again. He is subjected to a personal screening with a metal detection hand wand. This time he is cleared and he is permitted to pass through the checkpoint. The 9/11 Commission later concludes that Almihdhar's passport was “suspicious” and could have been linked to al-Qaeda upon inspection, but it has not been explained why or how.

7:35 a.m.: More Hijackers Have Checkpoint Problems; Allowed to Board Anyway
According to the 9/11 Commission's review of airport security footage, the remaining three Flight 77 hijackers pass through a security checkpoint at Dulles Airport. Hani Hanjour is selected for further inspection by FAA's Computer Assisted Passenger Prescreening System (CAPPS) program. His two carry-on bags fail to set off any alarms. One minute later, Nawaf Alhazmi and Salem Alhazmi enter the same checkpoint. They are selected for further inspection because one of them does not have photo identification nor is able to understand English and a security agent finds both of them suspicious. Salem Alhazmi successfully clears the magnetometer, and he is permitted through the checkpoint. Nawaf Alhazmi sets off the alarms for both the first and second magnetometers. He is subsequently subjected to a personal screening with a metal detection hand wand. He finally passes. His shoulder strap carry-on bag is swiped by an explosive trace detector and returned without further inspection. The 9/11 Commission later concludes that the Alhazmi brothers' passports had suspicious indicators, and that they could have been linked to al-Qaeda upon closer inspection. To date, video footage of the Flight 77 hijackers has been released to the public, but none of the footage of other hijackers going through security has been.

(8:20 a.m.): Flight 77 Takes Off 10 Minutes Late

(9:12 a.m.): Flight 77 Attendant Has Confirmed Hijacking, American Airlines Learns
Renee May, a flight attendant on Flight 77, uses a cell phone to call her mother in Las Vegas. She tells her mother that the flight has been hijacked, and that everyone has been asked to move to the back of the plane. She asks her mother to call American Airlines and let them know Flight 77 has been hijacked. Her mother (Nancy May) calls the airline. American Airlines headquarters is already aware that Flight 77 is hijacked, but supposedly Indianapolis flight control covering the flight still is not told.

(9:20 a.m.): Barbara Olson Said to Call from Flight 77, but Account Is Full of Contradictions
A passenger on Flight 77, Barbara Olson, calls her husband, Theodore (Ted) Olson, who is Solicitor General at the Justice Department. Ted Olson is in his Justice Department office watching WTC news on television when his wife calls. A few days later, he says, “She told me that she had been herded to the back of the plane. She mentioned that they had used knives and box cutters to hijack the plane. She mentioned that the pilot had announced that the plane had been hijacked.” He tells her that two planes have hit the WTC. She feels nobody is taking charge. He doesn't know if she was near the pilots, but at one point she asks, “What shall I tell the pilot? What can I tell the pilot to do?” Then she is cut off without warning.
(De rest gaat over Ted Olson, met veel vraagtekens over zijn relaas.)

9:34 a.m.: Flight 93 Passenger Burnett Calls Again, Learns It's a Suicide Mission
Tom Burnett calls his wife Deena a second time. He says, “They're in the cockpit.” He has checked the pulse of the man who was knifed (later identified as Mark Rothenberg, sitting next to him in seat 5B) and determined he is dead. She tells him about the hits on the WTC. He responds, “Oh my God, it's a suicide mission.” As they continue to talk, he tells her the plane has turned back. By this time, Deena is in constant communication with the FBI and others, and a police officer is at her house.

9:37 a.m.: Flight 77 Crashes into Reinforced Section of the Pentagon

[SIZE=4]FLIGHT 93[/SIZE]
(8:42 a.m.): Flight 93 Takes Off 41 Minutes Late

(9:27 a.m.): Flight 93 Passenger Tom Burnett Calls Wife, Mentions Bomb, Knife, and Gun
Tom Burnett calls his wife, Deena, using a cell phone and says, “I'm on United Flight 93 from Newark to San Francisco. The plane has been hijacked. We are in the air. They've already knifed a guy. There is a bomb on board. Call the FBI.” Deena connects to emergency 9-1-1. Deena wonders if the call might have been before the cockpit was taken over, because he spoke quickly and quietly as if he was being watched. He also had a headset like phone operators use, so he could have made the call unnoticed. Note that original versions of this conversation appear to have been censored. The most recent account has the phone call ending with, “We are in the air. The plane has been hijacked. They already knifed a guy. One of them has a gun. They're saying there is a bomb onboard. Please call the authorities.” The major difference from earlier accounts, is the mention of a gun. The call wasn't recorded, but Deena's call to 9-1-1 immediately afterwards was, and on that call she states, “They just knifed a passenger and there are guns on the plane.” Deena Burnett later says of her husband: “He told me one of the hijackers had a gun. He wouldn't have made it up. Tom grew up around guns. He was an avid hunter and we have guns in our home. If he said there was a gun on board, there was.” This is the first of over 30 phone calls by passengers inside the plane. Passengers are told what happened at the WTC in least five of the phone calls. Five calls show an intent to revolt against the hijackers.

(9:28 a.m.): Cleveland Flight Control Hears Sounds of Struggle as Flight 93 Is Hijacked
Flight 93 acknowledges a transmission from a Cleveland flight controller. This is the last normal contact with the plane. According to the 9/11 Commission, less than a minute later, the controller, and pilots of aircraft in the vicinity, hear “a radio transmission of unintelligible sounds of possible screaming or a struggle from an unknown origin...” Someone, presumably pilot Jason Dahl, is overheard by controllers as he shouts, “Mayday!” Seconds later, the controller responds: “Somebody call Cleveland?” Then there are more sounds of screaming and someone yelling, “Get out of here, get out of here.” Then the voices of the hijackers can be heard talking in Arabic. The words are later translated to show they are talking to each other, saying, “Everything is fine.” Later passenger phone calls describe two dead or injured bodies just outside the cockpit; presumably these are the two pilots.

(After 9:31 a.m.): Flight 93 Attendant Is Stabbed
A few minutes after 9:31 a.m., a hijacker on board Flight 93 can be heard on the cockpit voice recorder ordering a woman to sit down. A woman, presumably a flight attendant, implores, “don't, don't.” She pleads, “Please, I don't want to die.” Patrick Welsh, the husband of flight attendant Debbie Welsh, is later told that a flight attendant was stabbed early in the takeover, and it is strongly implied it was his wife. She was a first-class attendant, and he says, “knowing Debbie,” she would have resisted.

(9:32 a.m.): Flight 93 Hijacker Tells Passengers Bomb Is Onboard; Flight Controllers Overhear
A hijacker says over the radio to Flight 93's passengers: “Ladies and gentlemen, here is the captain, please sit down. Keep remaining sitting. We have a bomb aboard.” Apparently, Cleveland flight controllers can understand about a minute of screams, before a voice again says something about a “bomb on board.” A hijacker says in broken English that they are returning to the airport. According to the 9/11 Commission's account, the hijacker's voice says, “Keep remaining sitting. We have a bomb on board.” The controller understands, but chooses to respond, “Calling Cleveland [flight control], you're unreadable. Say again, slowly.” Apparently there's no answer. The controller notifies his supervisor, who soon passes the notice to FAA headquarters.

(9:37 a.m.): Flight 93 Passenger Jeremy Glick Describes Hijackers, Bomb
Jeremy Glick calls his wife, Lyz, from Flight 93. He describes the hijackers as Middle Eastern- and Iranian-looking. According to Glick, three of them put on red headbands, stood up, yelled, and ran into the cockpit. He had been sitting in the front of the coach section, but he was then sent to the back with most of the passengers. Glick says the hijackers claimed to have a bomb, which looked like a box with something red around it. Family members immediately call emergency 9-1-1 on another line. New York State Police are patched in midway through the call. Glick finds out about the WTC towers. Two others onboard also learn about the WTC at about this time. Glick's phone remains connected until the very end of the flight.

9:41 a.m.: Flight 93 Passenger Birtton Reports Two Killed
Flight 93 passenger Marion Birtton calls a friend. She tells him two people have been killed and the plane has been turned around.

9:42 a.m.: Passenger Mark Bingham Tells of Bomb Threat on Flight 93
From Flight 93, Mark Bingham calls his mother and says, “I'm on a flight from Newark to San Francisco and there are three guys who have taken over the plane and they say they have a bomb.” In an alternate version, he says, “I'm in the air, I'm calling you on the Airfone. I'm calling you from the plane. We've been taken over. There are three men that say they have a bomb.”

9:45 a.m.: Tom Burnett Says Flight 93 Passengers Are Making Plans to Defeat Hijackers
Tom Burnett calls his wife, Deena, for the third time. She tells him about the crash at the Pentagon. Tom speaks about the bomb he'd mentioned earlier, saying, “I don't think they have one. I think they're just telling us that.” He says the hijackers are talking about crashing the plane into the ground. “We have to do something.” He says that “a group of us” are making a plan. This indicates there would have been at least 19 minutes advance notice that a passenger takeover was likely, if the contents of these phone calls are being passed on to the right authorities. Note that by Burnett's second call at 9:34 a.m., the FBI was already listening in.

9:45 a.m.: FBI Listens as Passenger Todd Beamer Describes Flight 93 Take Over Plan
After having some trouble getting authorization to use an Airfone to call his family, passenger Todd Beamer is able to speak to Verizon phone representative Lisa Jefferson, with the FBI listening in. He talks for about 15 minutes. Beamer says he has been herded to the back of the plane along with nine other passengers and five flight attendants. A hijacker, who says he has a bomb strapped to his body, is guarding them. Twenty-seven passengers are being guarded by a hijacker in first class, which is separated from the rest of the aircraft by a curtain. One hijacker has gone into the cockpit. One passenger is dead (that leaves one passenger unaccounted for—presumably the man who made a call from the bathroom, thought to be Edward Felt). The two pilots are apparently dead. A conflicting version states that 27 passengers were in the back, and that Beamer saw four hijackers instead of just three. It is not clear if Tom Burnett's first class section group is in contact with Todd Beamer's coach section group or if there are two independent plans to take over the plane.

(9:46 a.m.): Flight 93 Hijackers Bring the Pilot Back In
According to the later-recovered Flight 93 cockpit voice recording, around this time one hijacker in the cockpit says to another, “Let the guys in now.” A vague instruction is given to bring the pilot back in. It's not clear if this is a reference to an original pilot or a hijacker pilot. Investigators aren't sure if the original pilots were quickly killed or allowed to live.

(9:47 a.m.): Passenger Jeremy Glick Tells of Vote to Take Over Flight 93
On Flight 93, Jeremy Glick is still on the phone with his wife, Lyz. He tells her that the passengers are taking a vote if they should try to take over the plane or not. He later says that all the men on the plane have voted to attack the hijackers. When asked about weapons, he says they don't have guns, just knives. This appears to contradict an earlier mention of guns. His wife gets the impression from him that the hijacker standing nearby, claiming to hold the bomb, would be easy to overwhelm.

9:50 a.m.: Sandy Bradshaw Tells of Preparations to Fight Three Guys with Knives
Sandy Bradshaw calls her husband from Flight 93. She says, “Have you heard what's going on? My flight has been hijacked. My flight has been hijacked with three guys with knives.” She tells him that some passengers are in the rear galley filling pitchers with hot water to use against the hijackers.

9:54 a.m.: Tom Burnett Calls for Fourth Time; Details Plan to Take Control of Plane
Tom Burnett calls his wife, Deena, for the fourth and last time. In early reports of this call, he says, “I know we're all going to die. There's three of us who are going to do something about it.” However, in a later, more complete, account, he sounds much more upbeat. “It's up to us. I think we can do it.” He adds, “Don't worry, we're going to do something.” He specifically mentions they plan to regain control of the airplane over a rural area.

(9:57 a.m. and After): Passengers and Hijackers Struggle in the Flight 93 Cockpit
“In the cockpit! In the cockpit!” is heard. The hijackers are reportedly heard telling each other to hold the door. In English, someone outside shouts, “Let's get them.” The hijackers are also praying “Allah o akbar” (God is great). One of the hijackers suggests shutting off the oxygen supply to the cabin (which apparently would not have had any effect since the plane was already below 10,000 feet). A hijacker says, “Should we finish?” Another one says, “Not yet.” The sounds of the passengers get clearer, and in unaccented English “Give it to me!” is heard. “I'm injured,” someone says in English. Then something like “roll it up” and “lift it up” is heard. Passengers' relatives believe this sequence proves that the passengers did take control of the plane.

9:57 a.m.: Passengers Begin Attempt to Regain Control of Flight 93
One of the hijackers in the cockpit asks if anything is going on, apparently meaning outside the cockpit. “Fighting,” the other says. An analysis of the cockpit flight recording suggests that the passenger struggle actually starts in the front of the plane (where Mark Bingham and Tom Burnett are sitting) about a minute before a struggle in the back of the plane (where Todd Beamer is sitting). Officials later theorize that the Flight 93 passengers reach the cockpit using a food cart as a battering ram and a shield. They claim digital enhancement of the cockpit voice recorder reveals the sound of plates and glassware crashing around 9:57 a.m.

9:58 a.m.: Flight 93 Passengers Run to First Class
Sandy Bradshaw tells her husband, “Everyone's running to first class. I've got to go. Bye.” She had been speaking with him since 9:50 a.m.

9:58 a.m.: Todd Beamer Ends Call; He and Others in Rear of Plane Join Takeover Attempt
Todd Beamer ends his long phone call with a Verizon phone company representative saying that they plan “to jump” the hijacker in the back of the plane who has the bomb. In the background, the phone operator already could hear an “awful commotion” of people shouting, and women screaming, “Oh my God,” and “God help us.” He lets go of the phone but leaves it connected. His famous last words are said to nearby passengers: “Are you ready guys? Let's roll” (alternate version: “You ready? Okay. Let's roll”). Sounds of fighting in the back of the plane where Beamer is can be heard about a minute after such sounds in the front.

9:58 a.m.: CeeCee Lyles Cries they're Doing It; Strange Sounds Follow
CeeCee Lyles says to her husband, “Aah, it feels like the plane's going down.” Her husband Lorne says, “What's that?” She replies, “I think they're going to do it. they're forcing their way into the cockpit” (an alternate version says, “they're getting ready to force their way into the cockpit”). A little later she screams, then says, “they're doing it! they're doing it! they're doing it!” Her husband hears more screaming in the background, then he hears a “whooshing sound, a sound like wind,” then more screaming, and then the call breaks off.

10:00 a.m.: Hijackers Respond to Passenger Revolt
According to the 9/11 Commission, the hijacker pilot, presumably Ziad Jarrah, has been rolling the plane sharply to the left and right in an attempt to prevent passengers from reaching the cockpit. At this time, he stabilizes the plane and asks another hijacker, “Is that it? Shall we finish it off?” Another voice answers, “No. Not yet. When they all come, we finish it off.” The pilot starts pitching the nose of the airplane up and down. A few seconds later a passenger's voice can be heard saying, “In the cockpit. If we don't we'll die!” Another voice says, “Roll it!” which some speculate could be a reference to pushing a foot cart into the cockpit door. By 10:01, the pilot stops the pitching and says, “Allah o akbar! Allah o akbar!” (“God is great”), then asks, “Is that it? I mean, shall we put it down?” Another hijacker responds, “Yes, put it in it, and pull it down.”

(10:00 a.m.): Elizabeth Wainio Says they're Rushing the Cockpit
Flight 93 passenger Elizabeth Wainio says to her stepmother, “Mom, they're rushing the cockpit. I've got to go. Bye,” then hangs up. This may have been a delayed reaction to events, since her stepmother says that in their 10-minute call, Elizabeth was in a trancelike state, appeared to have resigned herself to death, was breathing in a strange manner, and even said she felt she was leaving her body. The timing for this call is also approximate, and variously reported as taking place just before or just after 10:00 a.m.

(10:03-10:10 a.m.): Flight 93 Crashes; Seven-Minute Discrepancy on Exact Timing of Crash

[PetSel]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door democratsteve

En dan nog vooral van WIE deze opmerkingen komen.
Je moet op andere draden eens kijken naar het niveau van de posts van die lombas en petsel.
Vooral die petsel. Heb eens snel z'n laatste 20 posts bekeken.
D'r is denk ik één post bij die meer dan één regel beslaat.

We zullen maar zwijgen over u
En zoals ik al eerder vermeld heb, ga ik hier niet verder op in gaan en het klein kind gaan uithangen.

[PetSel]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Lex Blanca

HIer komt het dan...

Dus omdat jij 30% van de posts (op de NWO draad) van 1 van de posters! op de deze draad! (Pindar) als spam ziet moet de draad verplaatst worden naar K&K....
Geef toe:"Zielige zagevent" zou een understatement zijn om jou en je posts op deze en vorige p. te omvatten.
Zelfkennis is de basis van...
Je eigen fouten inzien getuigt van...

Dude, heb ik gezegd dat deze topic naar K&K moest? Ik begreep Lombas zijn standpunt betreft sommige "spam"posts hier in deze topic.
BTW, als jij mensen nog niet kan onderscheiden, wat ga je dan discussieren over het NWO?

[puud]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door democratsteve

Hier kan trouwens opgeworpen worden hoé het in hemelsnaam mogelijk is dat nooit een correcte passagierlijst is gepubliceerd door één van de grote nieuwszenders?
Het is verplicht voor luchtvaartmaatschappijen (verzekering en shit) om van elke vlucht een correcte passagierslijst te hebben.
Het is dan ook volstrekt onbegrijpelijk dat er "fouten" zijn opgetreden op de lijsten die AP en CNN hebben gepubliceerd.
Hoe komt het dat geen enkele van het aantal genoemde passagiers overeenkomt met het aantal namen op de lijst?
Hoe komt het dat de namen van die kapers daar niet op staan?
Bij elke vliegtuigramp in de geschiedenis zijn het aantal doden en hun identiteit zonder één fout naar buiten gebracht.
Nooit is er verwarring geweest over het aantal, noch de identiteit van de slachtoffers.
Op 11 september crashen vier vliegtuigen en voor het eerst blijkt niemand te weten hoeveel passagiers er nu juist in elk van die vliegtuigen zaten.
Tja. Zal wel weer allemaal "toeval" zijn, zekers?

Zie http://www.rense.com/general21/pass.htm

Een zekere Ron de Wit komt toch tot een iets juister berekening.
In het kort

United Airlines en American Airlines maken volgende gegevens bekend
- Vlucht 11: 81 passagiers, 9 bemanningsleden, 2 piloten TOTAAL 92 personen
- Vlucht 175: 56 passagiers, 7 bemanningsleden, 2 piloten TOTAAL 65 personen
- Vlucht 77: 58 passagiers, 4 bemanningsleden, 2 piloten TOTAAL 64 personen
- Vlucht 93: 37 passagiers, 5 bemanningsleden, 2 piloten TOTAAL 44 personen

Deze getallen zijn later nooit betwist, ook niet door de FAA of de FBI, dus mogen we aannemen dat ze juist zijn.

De FBI geeft de namen van 19 kapers, 5 aan boord van vlucht 11, 5 aan boord van vlucht 175, 5 aan boord van vlucht 77 en 4 aan boord van vlucht 93

Die namen zijn op geen enkele gepubliceerde passagierslijst terug te vinden. Natuurlijk moeten ze wel terug te vinden zijn op de originele lijsten, zoals de FBI wel weet

Als we al de namen tellen die op de gepubliceerde passagierslijsten staan en we voegen de namen van de kapers erbij dan komen we tot het aantal werkelijke personen aan boord.

Hoe Ron de Wit die passagierslijsten heeft samengesteld moet ge maar nalezen op zijn site.

Het resultaat
- Vlucht 93: 40 personen en 4 kapers is in totaal 44: correct
- Vlucht 77: 59 personen en 5 kapers is in totaal 64: correct
- Vlucht 175: 58 personen en 5 kapers is in totaal 63: fout, zou 65 moeten zijn
- Vlucht 11: 89 personen en 5 kapers is in totaal 94: fout, zou 92 moeten zijn

Zijn besluit (die ik geheel voor zijn rekening laat)
- Op vlucht 175 waren er 7 kapers
- Op vlucht 11 waren er 3 kapers

Volgens mij kan men dat verschil ook anders verklaren (voor het ogenblik weet ik ook niet hoe)

Met een beetje slechte wil kan men ook zeggen dat dit van geen belang is aangezien het algemeen totaal wel klopt.

[Firestone]

Misschien aan het uitmuntend werk van puud toevoegen dat het verslag van de onderzoekscommissie uitdrukkelijk verwijst naar de "flight manifests" die ze van American Airlines en United Airlines hebben ontvangen (en waarop volgens het verslag de kapers voorkomen).

Nu mag men voor mijn part aannemen dat American Airlines, United Airlines, de luchthavens, de FAA, de FBI, de onderzoekscommissie allen in het complot zitten.
Doet men dat niet, dan staat vast dat de 19 kapers op de passagierslijsten voorkomen.

Misschien ook nog eens herhalen dat Al Jazeera beelden heeft getoond van vijf kapers die de aanslagen voorbereiden, en dat OBL Mohammed Atta als één van de kapers genoemd heeft. Maar misschien zit Al Jazeera ook in het complot.

Bon, over and out wat mij betreft. Ik heb weer van mijn H&M aan mijn voeten gekregen dat ik mij inlaat met de believers, en nog reageer op de leugens van democratsteve. En ik haat het wanneer mijn H&M nog gelijk heeft ook.

En for the record: ik ben geen snol.

[parcifal]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Firestone

En for the record: ik ben geen snol.

Wie zegt dat jij een snol bent?
De mensen hebben geen manieren meer.

En uw H&M (Husband & Macho ? 8) ) heeft inderdaad gelijk :
discussieren met "believers" is zinloos.
Dat is zoals discussieren met een blinde over de kleur van een zonnebloem.

Een mooie inspanning van Puud maar het zal niet helpen. Feiten
betekenen immers niets voor mensen die al overtuigd zijn van hun
gelijk.

[Firestone]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door parcifal

En uw H&M (Husband & Macho ? 8) )

(Nog) niet husband (probeer jij hem eens te overtuigen ...) en zeker geen macho, integendeel.

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door parcifal

heeft inderdaad gelijk :

bedankt om dat nog eens te benadrukken.

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door parcifal

discussieren met "believers" is zinloos.
Dat is zoals discussieren met een blinde over de kleur van een zonnebloem.

Een mooie inspanning van Puud maar het zal niet helpen. Feiten
betekenen immers niets voor mensen die al overtuigd zijn van hun
gelijk.

Inderdaad.

[exodus]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Firestone

Nu mag men voor mijn part aannemen dat American Airlines, United Airlines, de luchthavens, de FAA, de FBI, de onderzoekscommissie allen in het complot zitten.
Doet men dat niet, dan staat vast dat de 19 kapers op de passagierslijsten voorkomen.

Dat is jouw interpretatie. Wie zegt er dat zij in het complot moet zitten? Wie zegt er dat deze organisaties in het geheel in het complot moeten zitten zoals jij het voorstelt. Die veralgemeningen die je maakt trekken echt op niets.

[Firestone]

***zucht***

Als de kapers niet op de flight manifests staan, terwijl de FBI en de onderzoekscommissie beweren van wel, dan zijn er meer dan genoeg mensen bij American Airlines, United Airlines, de FAA, het grondpersoneel van de luchthavens, ... die WETEN dat er flagrant gelogen wordt.

Niks interpretatie, gewoon logica.

[exodus]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Firestone

***zucht***

Als de kapers niet op de flight manifests staan, terwijl de FBI en de onderzoekscommissie beweren van wel, dan zijn er meer dan genoeg mensen bij American Airlines, United Airlines, de FAA, het grondpersoneel van de luchthavens, ... die WETEN dat er flagrant gelogen wordt.

Niks interpretatie, gewoon logica.

Wat is meer dan genoeg? Er bestaat ook zoiets als bureaucratie.

[Lincoln]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...kull+and+bones

[exodus]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door lincoln

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...kull+and+bones

Niet echt mijn genre maar wel goeie clip met een grappige noot.