De andere kant - Israel - Gaza

[ShoshannaKimberley]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Rr00ttt

Belgian media is very much biased against Israel.

Very true, RrOOttt. And Belgium much more than the Netherlands.

[Breezertrut]

Netanyahu was right
All the prime minister's predictions have come true. He always said the whole world was against us - now he is right.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition...right-1.293886

[Israëlisch]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Cdude

Just to refreshen your memory (Credit to Jean-Pierre)

I didn't even open the link, you must be talking about the Goldstien report
That was a good one.
Lets take a look on some of the Perls from this report:
1) The report was something around 600 pages, only 30 were about the Hamas (This is what called a FAIR examination)
2) the committee did not investigated the reason for the war
3) the hamas shoot 8000 rockets on Israeli cities before the war! (and then came the best part, he claimed that he was actually aiming on the army but the rockets are not good and they hit the cities) 8000 rockets!!!
4) The committee was of the human rights body of the UN, A body that is controlled by ""enlightened"" and ""advanced"" countries regarding human rights like China, Egypt, Cuba, Pakistan and the list goes on...

And if we are already talking about the UN human rights body, Can you explain why is it obsessively discuss Israel? Are people do not get killed in Africa by the tens of thousands on a daily bases? this is it? the only places that there are atrocities are Israel and Palestine? Have you asked your self Why????

Have you ever were in a combat situation? Do you know what is it like? I guess not.
Well. to fight in such dense place and get only 1600 people dead is a miracle! How many people die when America attacked Baghdad???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJ2nYZyNpcU

[Kaal]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Israëlisch

OK, Lets think a bit,
Do you think that if they went in with a machine gun there would be only 9 dead????

No, they would have torpedoed the boats just like the North Koreans did a few weeks ago. But don't expect those people to be reasonable. They will always beleive the worst about Israel, no matter what you say.

[Cdude]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Israëlisch

I didn't even open the link, you must be talking about the Goldstien report
That was a good one.
Lets take a look on some of the Perls from this report:
1) The report was something around 600 pages, only 30 were about the Hamas (This is what called a FAIR examination)
2) the committee did not investigated the reason for the war
3) the hamas shoot 8000 rockets on Israeli cities before the war! (and then came the best part, he claimed that he was actually aiming on the army but the rockets are not good and they hit the cities) 8000 rockets!!!
4) The committee was of the human rights body of the UN, A body that is controlled by ""enlightened"" and ""advanced"" countries regarding human rights like China, Egypt, Cuba, Pakistan and the list goes on...

And if we are already talking about the UN human rights body, Can you explain why is it obsessively discuss Israel? Are people do not get killed in Africa by the tens of thousands on a daily bases? this is it? the only places that there are atrocities are Israel and Palestine? Have you asked your self Why????

Have you ever were in a combat situation? Do you know what is it like? I guess not.
Well. to fight in such dense place and get only 1600 people dead is a miracle! How many people die when America attacked Baghdad???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJ2nYZyNpcU

The Israelis evidently calculate that an offensive in Gaza can isolate Hamas from the bulk of Palestinians, who will blame its leaders for the bombardment. But nothing is ever that simple. The air attacks and a possible ground offensive will act as a recruiting sergeant for Hamas and widen the rift with Mahmoud Abbas, the democratically elected Fatah leader whose writ no longer runs in Gaza. The Israelis seem to have decided on an all-out offensive against Hamas, because while the Iranian-backed militia holds sway in Gaza there is no hope of progress. They may be right, though a similar attempt to extirpate Hizbollah in Lebanon was an ignominious failure. This should not stop those with influence in the region trying to broker some sort of rapprochement, however unlikely. Otherwise, there will many more poignant pictures of bewildered families before this tragedy runs its course, if it ever does.

[Israëlisch]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Breezertrut

Netanyahu was right
All the prime minister's predictions have come true. He always said the whole world was against us - now he is right.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition...right-1.293886

Hi Breezertrut,

Well, I don't know if you know but the guy that wrote this article is a very left wing writer, and is a great example of the freedom of speech we have here in Israel.

I think that most people have the notion that Israel is a third world country with no rights what so ever.

Although I do not agree with this guy always he make Israelis see the other side also, The Palestinian side! he make us look at the mirror on a daily bases and I believe it is good!
He is very criticizing of Israel and its policy, and he talks a lot about the little stories and all the wrongs that people make to people in this area (He say that there are so many people covering the Israeli side so he will cover the wrongs made by Israelis to Palestinians)
I recommend to read this guy but.... with a perspective that this is not the same neighborhood like you guys have in Europe.

Cheers.

[Cdude]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Kaal

No, they would have torpedoed the boats just like the North Koreans did a few weeks ago. But don't expect those people to be reasonable. They will always beleive the worst about Israel, no matter what you say.

So, because the Koreans torpedoed a boat the Israelis can attack a Turkish boat in international waters?
Is that how it works? Is that what you're saying Kaal?


Some people would call that an act of war but hey, who am I to decide?

[Israëlisch]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Kaal

No, they would have torpedoed the boats just like the North Koreans did a few weeks ago. But don't expect those people to be reasonable. They will always beleive the worst about Israel, no matter what you say.

Hi Kaal!

Does not matter I will still try although one might say this is a lost battle, I do not believe so.

[Cdude]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Israëlisch

Hi Breezertrut,

Well, I don't know if you know but the guy that wrote this article is a very left wing writer, and is a great example of the freedom of speech we have here in Israel.

Are u really the smartest Israel has to offer?
[quote]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Cdude

Where are the IDF images from DURING THE SHOOTINGS? Did they run out of tape?
Why is there, EVEN ON JEWISH PRESS, an information stop, dictated by the IDF?
Who is trying to hide what?

Israeli gagging order on ex-soldier case condemned

Anat Kam, 23, is said to be under investigation for various security offences, including leaking classified military information.
Ms Kam is alleged to have obtained documents concerning apparently extra-judicial killings of Palestinian militants.

Democracy u said? Freedom of press u said?

MY ASS, is what I say !!!

[Breezertrut]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Israëlisch

Hi Kaal!

Does not matter I will still try although one might say this is a lost battle, I do not believe so.

It is a lost battle, whatever u try. That might change when the occupation ends. When we see a more human face of Israel.

[Israëlisch]

Hi Cdude!

Great quote!!!

As a matter of fact, the blockade on Gaza started after Hamas sized the Gaza bank from Muhammad Abbas in a brutal overthrow(I am sure you will be able to find description of what I am talking about, People from the Fatah were assassinated by Hamas, People were thrown of the roofs etc'
http://www.haaretz.com/news/hamas-ta...ashes-1.223003 )
And now when every one is talking about Gaza, Why does no one talks about the West bank, Check the economy, It has been booming, less road blocks more attempts to open the markets, to let people live.

What I am trying to say that there is an other way, it does not have to be with rockets, there are sides here (In israel and in Palestine) that are trying to make peace!!!

But by letting the Hamas (a a recognized terrorist organization by the US and the EU) you are actually making it harder to show an alternative.

Hamas Is not a peace and love organizations, they send booms to cities to buses and to schools!

[Israëlisch]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Breezertrut

It is a lost battle, whatever u try. That might change when the occupation ends. When we see a more human face of Israel.

I can say only one thing for that:

Agreed!!!

It does not matter if we are right or wrong, peace is the only possible outcome and I believe we are trying to get there.
Just like I believe that till then I need to show people that we are have more sides other then jumping boats on high seas

[1207]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Israëlisch

Hamas Is not a peace and love organizations, they send booms to cities to buses and to schools!

Sorry maar ik ben te arrogant om braaf in het engels te antwoorden.

klein detail
Israel heeft de mensen met het foute geloof ca 60j geleden in de open gevangenis genaamd gaza gegooid en Hamas is nog maar een 20tal jaar oud.
beweren dat hamas de reden zou zijn voor de Israelische behandeling vd vrouwen en kinderen in gaza is wel een hele perverse verdraaiing vd feiten.
Moest Israel vanaf het begin een seculiere democratische rechtsstaat geweest zijn dan hadden ze mensen met het foute geloof niet hebben moeten buiten gooien.
een democratische rechtsstaat gestoeld op internationaal recht gebruikt geen valse paspoorten voor moordeskaders en vermoord geen burgers in internationale wateren.
het getuigt wel van een perverse geest om deze aanval en moordraid nu als zelfverdediging uit te gaan leggen. het getuigt van nog een perverse geest dat er zoveel mensen mee in deze logica stappen alsof dat hulpskonvooi er zelf om gevraagd zou hebben.

versta je dit niet dan zal je vrouw wel voor de nodige vertaling zorgen

[Breezertrut]

Yes, Hamas is a terror organisation. I would have created Hamas myself if I lived there. Israel created Hamas in the first place. U can dismantle it with love, not with more violence. End the occupation.

[Kaal]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Breezertrut

Netanyahu was right
All the prime minister's predictions have come true. He always said the whole world was against us - now he is right.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition...right-1.293886

Not the whole world. I look at israël and I see a country with many faults, like my own. I then look at Hamas, Iran and Hezbollah and I see violent fanatics that love death and war. They hate not only the Jews, but also the Christians and beyond that, anyone who is not a muslim. If israël falls, the will turn their full attention on the West. If they have an atomic bomb, they will use it. You are right to fight them as long as they boast about destroying you.

[liberalist_NL]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Israëlisch

Dag allemaal!

Dit is mijn eerste post hier op uw forum, las ik het de hele ochtend. Het spijt me voor mijn Vlaamse, het is erg slecht, ben ik nog steeds moeite mee.
Ik ben een gewone Israëlische levens in Israël en getrouwd met een prachtig Vlaams meisje (er want ik ben hier posten).
Het hele verhaal in de laatste paar dagen met betrekking tot de Flottielje naar Gaza heeft mij actie te ondernemen en om dit forum te plaatsen.

Ik zal eerlijk zijn en zeggen: dit bericht is geschreven met Google Language Tool en zal ik de Engels versie van mijn bericht over de bodem (ik weet zeker dat het Vlaams is niet perfect post).

Dus ....

Het eerste wat ik zou willen zeggen is dat ik niet ben hier om mijn land te rechtvaardigen, zal ik de eerste persoon te komen en zeggen: "Dit is verkeerd '(en ik moet zeggen dat er veel mensen zoals ik hier.

Maar ...
Het feit dat Israël wordt duw om de hoek en wordt gedemoniseerd is niet eerlijk en niet alleen.
Net als anderen, we willen leven in vrede met de Palestijnen, en we proberen te doen sinds 1991 (vredesconferentie in Madrid, geleid door de rechtse partij Likod).
Maar net als andere landen proberen we ook alleen maar leven! en dat te doen in deze buurt moeten we om onszelf te beschermen door middel van geweld.

Nu, een feit over het Israëlische leger dat niet veel mensen weten:
In Israël gaat iedereen naar het leger, wanneer zij 18 (jongens meisjes 3 jaar 2), maar niet iedereen gaat naar gevechtseenheden. Nu weet ik dat in de meeste landen in de wereld mensen die naar het leger meestal afkomstig zijn uit de onderkant van de sociale demografische niveau van de samenleving en ook de mensen die gaan om gevechtseenheden.
In Israël is niet zo, We zijn erg trots op onze morele leger, Een deel van de reden is dat we onze beste kinderen te sturen naar de frontlinies, doen we niet daar stuur de mensen die hadden hard leven en komen uit gezinnen harde, sturen we er de middenklasse en hoger kids, de jongens die groeiden in normatieve opgeleide huizen, meer dan dit, De strijd om de meest gevechtseenheden zijn ook zodat we de beste mensen voor deze eenheden te kiezen. Wat iedereen nu gezien op youtube, de zegels van Israël zijn niet alleen spieren zijn zij de beste die we hebben - en ik spreek niet over de beste in het doden van mensen.

Ik heb ook gediend in het Israëlische leger en ik heb ook stud in blokken en reed ik ook bij "rondvliegende kogels" situaties. en ik ben hier om u te vertellen:

Israëlische soldaten NIET schieten om te doden, tenzij ze in een levensbedreigende situatie!

Ik denk dat iedereen hier al de beelden gezien van het flottielje al en ook de soldaten aangevallen te krijgen zodat u kunt de situatie waarin ze Stud inch begrijpen

Nu kan ik gaan en schrijf hier de hele dag lang over Israël, maar ik zal hier stoppen. Ik denk dat ik reacties op dit bericht en ik zal proberen om deel te nemen als ik kan.

Mijn doel is om tonen ook de andere kant, de Israëlische zijde.

Een van de redenen waarom ik graag dit forum is omdat ik gezien dat er zijn hier veel discussies. en ik denk dat ik kan doneren aan het zo goed en voeg een kant die waarschijnlijk wordt hier niet getoond.

Ik verontschuldig me voor mijn Vlaamse, Het is niet goed genoeg en dit is de reden voeg ik de Engels versie van het.

Bij voorbaat dank.

De Israelisch

Het is goed dat men in Israël merkt hoe eenzijdig onze media met dit soort conflicten omgaan. Israël is geen boeman en heeft al meermaals geprobeerd een vrede met de Palestijnen te verwezenlijken; maar voor hen is het alles of niets! En zo lang de eis van de opheffing van Israël zal bestaan, zal er geen vrede komen.

[Cdude]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Kaal

Not the whole world. I look at israël and I see a country with many faults, like my own. I then look at Hamas, Iran and Hezbollah and I see violent fanatics that love death and war. They hate not only the Jews, but also the Christians and beyond that, anyone who is not a muslim. If israël falls, the will turn their full attention on the West. If they have an atomic bomb, they will use it. You are right to fight them as long as they boast about destroying you.

U forgot ...." ignoring the fact that killing hudreds of innocent people in the process only will act as a recruiting sergeant for Hamas and widen the rift with Mahmoud Abbas,

Not very smart, don't u think Mr Kaal?
Mensen toekomst geven = oplossing
Collectieve straffen, onschuldige vermoorden, blokkades = voedingsbodem creeren.

MAAR ....let's ask ourselves the question : WHO IS GAINING (monye and powerwise) from the WAR?

[Israëlisch]

[quote=Cdude;4789514]Are u really the smartest Israel has to offer?

Democracy u said? Freedom of press u said?

MY ASS, is what I say !!!

I don't know about your ass but I do know that this girl is in house arrest for committing crimes. People who break the law are to be punished,
Or you do not believe in laws?
Do you?
If someone perform a crime in Belgium does he goes free because you agree with what he did.

And for Anat Kam there will be an open trail (for the not classified issues) and she will have the chance to defend here self.

More then this:
The fact that you read about it, this is the proof for the freedom of speech, if there were not why should you read about it? why should there be a court? the fact that you get all this information is a solid proof that we are not that bad ha?
What do you think?

It seems that you do not take the time to answer all the questions I have asked you? you always run to other subjects? Is there a problem for you to address my points?

PS
One more thing about the open press in Israel, According to what you say Israel is not an open press country, so then you must think that our neighboring countries are totally democracies because there you never read about corruption or problems, make me want to live in Saudi Arabia Pure and free country....

[Israëlisch]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Cdude

U forgot ...." ignoring the fact that killing hudreds of innocent people in the process only will act as a recruiting sergeant for Hamas and widen the rift with Mahmoud Abbas,

Not very smart, don't u think Mr Kaal?
Mensen toekomst geven = oplossing
Collectieve straffen, onschuldige vermoorden, blokkades = voedingsbodem creeren.

MAAR ....let's ask ourselves the question : WHO IS GAINING (monye and powerwise) from the WAR?

What? do you think Israel is gaining from it? do you know how much cost an army? we are only losing from this state of war.

[Cdude]

[quote=Israëlisch;4789576]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Cdude

Are u really the smartest Israel has to offer?


I don't know about your ass but I do know that this girl is in house arrest for committing crimes. People who break the law are to be punished,
Or you do not believe in laws?
Do you?
If someone perform a crime in Belgium does he goes free because you agree with what he did.

U clearly don't know what a "gagging order" entails so I'll stop waisting my time.
Look it up. I can tell you it's NOT "house arrest".

My private life is, excuse my French , non of yr f*** business.
The murder of innocent people is.