Israël maakt zich klaar om Iran te bombarderen... vanaf december

[Francientje]

Ik weet niet precies meer waarom de Amerikanen dat regime weg wilden en ik vind dat ze de zaak bar slecht aangepakt hebben maa ik weet dus wel waarom ik dat regime
weg wilde:het vergassen van hele volkstammen was een van mijn redenen.

[ministe van agitatie]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Francientje

Ik weet niet precies meer waarom de Amerikanen dat regime weg wilden en ik vind dat ze de zaak bar slecht aangepakt hebben maa ik weet dus wel waarom ik dat regime
weg wilde:het vergassen van hele volkstammen was een van mijn redenen.

Dat was nochtans juist het moment waarop de VS en Saddam goeie maatjes waren. Hier zie je (uit die periode) hoe Donald Rumsfeld Saddam vriendelijk de hand drukt.

[Antoon]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door ministe van agitatie

Dat was nochtans juist het moment waarop de VS en Saddam goeie maatjes waren. Hier zie je (uit die periode) hoe Donald Rumsfeld Saddam vriendelijk de hand drukt.

Dit is een leugen. Uw foto dateert van jaren eerder.

[Pelgrim]

feit blijft dat Saddam en de VS dikke vriendjes waren. Degasaanval op Koerden was ook helemaal niet de reden voor de inval, de oorlog met Koeweit was de reden.

[ministe van agitatie]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Antoon

Dit is een leugen. Uw foto dateert van jaren eerder.

De ondertitel bij de foto is:

Rumsfeld, Ronald Reagan's then-special envoy to the Middle East, meeting with Saddam Hussein during a visit to Baghdad, Iraq in December 1983, during the Iran–Iraq War.

Meer informatie over de relaties, lees je bijvoorbeeld in The Guardian:

The Reagan administration and its special Middle East envoy, Donald Rumsfeld, did little to stop Iraq developing weapons of mass destruction in the 1980s, even though they knew Saddam Hussein was using chemical weapons "almost daily" against Iran, it was reported yesterday.

US support for Baghdad during the Iran-Iraq war as a bulwark against Shi'ite militancy has been well known for some time, but using declassified government documents, the Washington Post provided new details yesterday about Mr Rumsfeld's role, and about the extent of the Reagan administration's knowledge of the use of chemical weapons.

The details will embarrass Mr Rumsfeld, who as defence secretary in the Bush administration is one of the leading hawks on Iraq, frequently denouncing it for its past use of such weapons.

The US provided less conventional military equipment than British or German companies but it did allow the export of biological agents, including anthrax; vital ingredients for chemical weapons; and cluster bombs sold by a CIA front organisation in Chile, the report says.

Intelligence on Iranian troop movements was provided, despite detailed knowledge of Iraq's use of nerve gas.

Dus hoewel de foto iets ouder is dan de gasaanvallen op Halabja, illustreert ze perfect de goede verstandhouding tussen het regime van Saddam Hoessein en de VS-regeringen van Reagan en Bush Sr. And that's the point.

[Dixie]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door atmosphere

En waarom wilden de Amerikanen dat regime weg hebben ?

is reeds meermaals geplaatst

[ministe van agitatie]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Dixie

is reeds meermaals geplaatst

Atmosphere wil graag uw visie en argumenten zodat hij ze kan ontkrachten. Wat niet zo moeilijk zal zijn.

[Dixie]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door ministe van agitatie

Dus hoewel de foto iets ouder is dan de gasaanvallen op Halabja, illustreert ze perfect de goede verstandhouding tussen het regime van Saddam Hoessein en de VS-regeringen van Reagan en Bush Sr. And that's the point.

dikke BS de verstandhouding tss irak en de us stond zelfs voor de irak - iran oorlog op een zeer laag pitje! Aangezien de problemen tss iran en de us was duidelijk wie de us zou steunen. Die steun kreeg irak trouwens van nog vele anderen zoals de ussr,italie,groot brittanie,frankrijk en de golfstaten en nog meer dan de us steun (maar dat past waarschijnlijk niet in je us gebash)

[Dixie]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door ministe van agitatie

Atmosphere wil graag uw visie en argumenten zodat hij ze kan ontkrachten. Wat niet zo moeilijk zal zijn.

en die heeft hij reeds meermaals gekregen ook...

[ministe van agitatie]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Francientje

Ik weet niet precies meer waarom de Amerikanen dat regime weg wilden en ik vind dat ze de zaak bar slecht aangepakt hebben maa ik weet dus wel waarom ik dat regime
weg wilde:het vergassen van hele volkstammen was een van mijn redenen.

Nog een woordje uitleg (peciaal voor Francientje en haar 'we'-gezelschap) over hasbara en de desinformatie-campagne van Israël:

Web warfare team unveiled

By Jonathan Cook in Nazareth

22 July 2009, re-posted 06/06/2010

Jonathan Cook reports that Israel is setting up a special internet undercover team of paid workers posing as ordinary surfers to spread positive news about Israel on the web, with the BBC News website and Arabic websites high on its target list.

The passionate support for Israel expressed on talkback sections of websites, internet chat forums, blogs, Twitter and Facebook may not be all that it seems.

Israel’s Foreign Ministry is reported to be establishing a special undercover team of paid workers whose job it will be to surf the internet 24 hours a day spreading positive news about Israel.

Internet-savvy Israeli youngsters, mainly recent graduates and demobilized soldiers with language skills, are being recruited to pose as ordinary surfers while they provide the government’s line on the Middle East conflict.

“To all intents and purposes the internet is a theatre in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and we must be active in that theatre, otherwise we will lose,” said Ilan Shturman, who is responsible for the project.

The existence of an “internet warfare team” came to light when it was included in this year’s Foreign Ministry budget. About 150,000 US dollars have been set aside for the first stage of development, with increased funding expected next year.

The team will fall under the authority of a large department already dealing with what Israelis term hasbara, officially translated as “public explanation” but more usually meaning propaganda. That includes not only government public relations work but more secretive dealings the ministry has with a battery of private organizations and initiatives that promote Israel’s image in print, on TV and online.

In an interview this month with the Calcalist, an Israeli business newspaper, Mr Shturman, the deputy director of the ministry’s hasbara department, admitted his team would be working undercover.

“Our people will not say: ‘Hello, I am from the hasbara department of the Israeli Foreign Ministry and I want to tell you the following.’ Nor will they necessarily identify themselves as Israelis,” he said. “They will speak as net-surfers and as citizens, and will write responses that will look personal but will be based on a prepared list of messages that the Foreign Ministry developed.”

Rona Kuperboim, a columnist for Ynet, Israel’s most popular news website, denounced the initiative, saying it indicated that Israel had become a “thought-police state”.

She added that “good PR cannot make the reality in the occupied territories prettier. Children are being killed, homes are being bombed, and families are starved.”

Her column was greeted by several talkbackers asking how they could apply for a job with the Foreign Ministry’s team.

The project is a formalization of public relations practices the ministry developed specifically for Israel’s assault on Gaza in December and January.

“During Operation Cast Lead we appealed to Jewish communities abroad and with their help we recruited a few thousand volunteers, who were joined by Israeli volunteers,” Mr Shturman said.

“We gave them background material and hasbara material, and we sent them to represent the Israeli point of view on news websites and in polls on the internet.”

The Israeli army also had one of the most popular sites on the video-sharing site YouTube and regularly uploaded clips, although it was criticized by human rights groups for misleading viewers about what was shown in its footage.

Mr Shturman said that during the war the ministry had concentrated its activities on European websites where audiences were more hostile to Israeli policy. High on its list of target sites for the new project would be the BBC News website and Arabic websites, he added.

Elon Gilad, who heads the internet team, told Calcalist that many people had contacted the ministry offering their services during the Gaza attack. “People just asked for information, and afterwards we saw that the information was distributed all over the internet.”

He suggested that there had been widespread government cooperation, with the ministry of absorption handing over contact details for hundreds of recent immigrants to Israel, who wrote pro-Israel material for websites in their native languages.

The new team is expected to increase the ministry’s close coordination with a private advocacy group, giyus.org (Give Israel Your United Support). About 50,000 activists are reported to have downloaded a programme called Megaphone that sends an alert to their computers when an article critical of Israel is published. They are then supposed to bombard the site with comments supporting Israel.

Nasser Rego of Ilam, a group based in Nazareth that monitors the Israeli media, said Arab organizations in Israel were among those regularly targeted by hasbara groups for “character assassination”. He was concerned the new team would try to make such work appear more professional and convincing.

“If these people are misrepresenting who they are, we can guess they won’t worry too much about misrepresenting the groups and individuals they write about. Their aim, it’s clear, will be to discredit those who stand for human rights and justice for the Palestinians.”

When The National called the Foreign Ministry, Yigal Palmor, a spokesman, denied the existence of the internet team, though he admitted officials were stepping up exploitation of new media.

He declined to say which comments by Mr Shturman or Mr Gilad had been misrepresented by the Hebrew-language media, and said the ministry would not be taking any action over the reports.

Israel has developed an increasingly sophisticated approach to new media since it launched a “Brand Israel” campaign in 2005.

Market research persuaded officials that Israel should play up good news about business success, and scientific and medical breakthroughs involving Israelis.

Mr Shturman said his staff would seek to use websites to improve “Israel’s image as a developed state that contributes to the quality of the environment and to humanity”.

David Saranga, head of public relations at Israel’s consulate-general in New York, which has been leading the push for more upbeat messages about Israel, argued last week that Israel was at a disadvantage against pro-Palestinian advocacy.

“Unlike the Muslim world, which has hundreds of millions of supporters who have adopted the Palestinian narrative in order to slam Israel, the Jewish world numbers only 13 million,” he wrote in Ynet.

Israel has become particularly concerned that support is ebbing among the younger generations in Europe and the United States.

In 2007 it emerged that the Foreign Ministry was behind a photo-shoot published in Maxim, a popular US men’s magazine, in which female Israeli soldiers posed in swimsuits.

Jonathan Cook is a writer and journalist based in Nazareth, Israel. His latest books are “Israel and the Clash of Civilisations: Iraq, Iran and the Plan to Remake the Middle East” (Pluto Press) and “Disappearing Palestine: Israel's Experiments in Human Despair” (Zed Books). His website is www.jkcook.net.

[Francientje]

Lol. Cook loopt achter. Véél achter.
Israel heeft altijd, overal ter wereld, over ONBETAALDE vrijwiligers beschikt. En dat is
dus geen staatsgeheim.

[ministe van agitatie]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Francientje

Lol. Cook loopt achter. Véél achter.
Israel heeft altijd, overal ter wereld, over ONBETAALDE vrijwiligers beschikt. En dat is
dus geen staatsgeheim.

Nee, dat is algemeen bekend, die zionistische samenzwering kenden we al.

Maar dat men nu zoveel aan steun inboet dat men beroep moet doen op betaalde bloggers, dat is natuurijk wel nieuws. Zoals het artiel zegt:

Israel has become particularly concerned that support is ebbing among the younger generations in Europe and the United States.

Het is overigens allemaal nogal dom van Israël (zoals elke doorzichtige vorm van propaganda) want wat critici nu alleen nog maar moeten doen is dit en gelijkaardige artikels aanhalen om aan te tonen waarom de beate bewonderaars van Israël ongeloofwaardig zijn. Ze doen gewoon hun betaalde job bij de Propaganda Abteilung.

[Francientje]

Ja kijk, ik vrees dat Cook zijn wensen voor werkelijkheid aanziet.

[AAA]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Kallikles

En wat doen we met een Zionist als jij?

Mij liefst tot president benoemen.

[ministe van agitatie]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door AAA

Mij liefst tot president benoemen.

Een President wordt doorgaans gekozen. De kans dat u dat te beurt valt is nihil. Gelukkig.

[atmosphere]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Pelgrim

feit blijft dat Saddam en de VS dikke vriendjes waren. Degasaanval op Koerden was ook helemaal niet de reden voor de inval, de oorlog met Koeweit was de reden.

De reden voor de huidige oorlog ?
Dat denk ik zeker niet, het is hooguit een klein deel van de reden.
Ze deden het in ieder geval niet met het idee er zelf niets aan te hebben.

[ministe van agitatie]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Francientje

Lol. Cook loopt achter.

Ik denk dat gij achter loopt. Kijk en luister eens naar Shlomo Sand. Zéér interessante visie, goed beargumenteerd, onderbouwd met feiten. Kijk eens en laat me weten waar je met hem van visie verschilt en waarom.

[westerhagen]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door ministe van agitatie

Dat was nochtans juist het moment waarop de VS en Saddam goeie maatjes waren. Hier zie je (uit die periode) hoe Donald Rumsfeld Saddam vriendelijk de hand drukt.

Flauw.Vrienden zijn ze nooit geweest.Kon ook niet gezien de houding van Saddam tegeneover Israel.

[Antoon]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door ministe van agitatie

Dus hoewel de foto iets ouder is dan de gasaanvallen op Halabja, illustreert ze perfect de goede verstandhouding tussen het regime van Saddam Hoessein en de VS-regeringen van Reagan en Bush Sr. And that's the point.

Iets ouder? Zes jaar eerder, en toen 5.000 Koerdische burgers werden vergasten waren de V.S al bezig met het aanhalen van het probleem Saddam.

De inval in Koeweit was de aanleiding voor de wereldgemeenschap om Irak binnen te vallen, niet de vergassing van de Koerden.

Daarom heeft westerhagen gelijk wanneer hij schrijft dat het tonen van een oude foto flauw is. Het is in ieder geval irrelevant.

[parcifal]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Antoon

Iets ouder? Zes jaar eerder, en toen 5.000 Koerdische burgers werden vergasten waren de V.S al bezig met het aanhalen van het probleem Saddam.

Officieel wel, officieus hielpen ze hem tot 1988/1989.

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/08/18/wo...se-of-gas.html

Though senior officials of the Reagan administration publicly condemned Iraq's employment of mustard gas, sarin, VX and other poisonous agents, the American military officers said President Reagan, Vice President George Bush and senior national security aides never withdrew their support for the highly classified program in which more than 60 officers of the Defense Intelligence Agency were secretly providing detailed information on Iranian deployments, tactical planning for battles, plans for airstrikes and bomb-damage assessments for Iraq.

...

''The use of gas on the battlefield by the Iraqis was not a matter of deep strategic concern,'' he said. What Mr. Reagan's aides were concerned about, he said, was that Iran not break through to the Fao Peninsula and spread the Islamic revolution to Kuwait and Saudi Arabia.

Colonel Lang asserted that the Defense Intelligence Agency ''would have never accepted the use of chemical weapons against civilians, but the use against military objectives was seen as inevitable in the Iraqi struggle for survival.'' Senior Reagan administration officials did nothing to interfere with the continuation of the program, a former participant in the program said.

Another former senior D.I.A. official who was an expert on the Iraqi military said the Reagan administration's treatment of the issue -- publicly condemning Iraq's use of gas while privately acquiescing in its employment on the battlefield -- was an example of the ''Realpolitik'' of American interests in the war.

The Pentagon ''wasn't so horrified by Iraq's use of gas,'' said one veteran of the program. ''It was just another way of killing people -- whether with a bullet or phosgene, it didn't make any difference,'' he said.