Rechten van de vrouw in de islam?????

[smiley]

Heel simpel. Het eerste recht van de vrouw in de islam is gehoorzaam te zijn aan de man. M.a.w. de vrouw heeft maar zoveel rechten als die die de man haar (wil) toestaan. En ze moet steeds klaar staan als hij eens goesting heeft. Dat is nl. zijn goddelijk recht (hij heeft er toch voor betaalt zeker). Indien zij ongehoorzaam is vallen er klappen.

Deze exmoslim legt het goed uit.

.. de positie van de vrouw die gewoon vernederend is; zij kan praktisch zonder formaliteit gescheiden worden.

... of uitgewisseld worden voor een andere vrouw (Koran 4:20. “En indien gij een vrouw in plaats van een andere wenst te nemen en gij hebt één harer een schat gegeven, neemt er niets van terug. Wilt gij het door laster en een klaarblijkelijk zondige manier nemen?”)

Vrouwen moeten hun man gehoorzamen en als de man vreest dat zij niet gaat gehoorzamen kunnen er klappen vallen (Koran 4:34. "Mannen zijn voogden over de vrouwen omdat Allah de enen boven de anderen heeft doen uitmunten en omdat zij van hun rijkdommen besteden. Deugdzame vrouwen zijn dus zij, die gehoorzaam zijn en heimelijk bewaren, hetgeen Allah onder haar hoede heeft gesteld. En degenen, van wie gij ongehoorzaamheid vreest, wijst haar terecht en laat haar in haar bedden alleen en tuchtigt haar. Als zij u dan daarna gehoorzamen, zoekt geen weg tegen haar. Waarlijk, Allah is Verheven, Groot."

Opmerking: waar in het arabisch "sla hen (vr.mv.)" staat, wordt dit in het Nederlands als "tuchtigt haar" vertaald omdat de vertaler zich gewoon schaamt.)

Een van de 4 scholen van de Islam, nl. de Shafi'i school stelt onomwonden dat de enige rol die een echtgenote heeft, het seksueel bevredigen van haar man is. En via de bruidschat krijgt zij hiervoor een eenmalige betaling. Dit doet mij denken aan het oudste beroep van de wereld. De geleerden van de Shafi'i school zijn geen achterlijke mensen. Zij halen dit gewoon uit de koran:

Koran 4:24. “... En geeft haar een huwelijksgift, tegenover de voordelen, die gij van haar hebt, dit is verplicht; ..."

Koran 4:20. “En indien gij een vrouw in plaats van een andere wenst te nemen en gij hebt één harer een schat gegeven, neemt er niets van terug. Wilt gij het door laster en een klaarblijkelijk zondige manier nemen?“

Koran 4:21. “En hoe kunt gij het nemen, wanneer de een uwer tot de andere is ingegaan [nota: dit betekent geslachtsgemeenschap] en zij een sterk verbond met u hebben gesloten?”

Dit wordt ook bevestigd door de authentieke overleveringen van de Profeet waaruit duidelijk blijkt dat de bruidschat enkel gekoppeld is aan seksuele betrekkingen met de man. Als hij haar, na eenmaal seksuele betrekkingen gehad te hebben, scheidt is hij zijn geld kwijt. (Bvb Muslim, Boek 9, nummer 3557.) http://www.exmoslim.org/getuigenisse...il%202008.html

women and Mohammad
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSEl6...9&feature=plcp

De moslimman kan daarenboven naast zijn 4 vrouwen ook nog talrijke sexslavinnen hebben. (daar staat geen getal op).

Rape in Islam
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o1FPkWWV2s

[JeeBee]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door roger verhiest

Toen ik in 1980 in Algerije werkzaam was, was dit land een "arabisch socialistisch" land (lees dictatuur) waar er een civiel recht heerste, maar een belangrijke fractie van de bevolking nogzal streng islamietisch was. De toestand is er na 1980 zeker niet radikaal op verbeterd qua invloed van de godsdienst : ze hebben er wel wat meer kapitalisme ingevoerd en trachten nu wat democratie "op te voeren".

In zo'n land moet men in de eerste plaats kijken naar de individuën en hun "normen en waarden". In het algemeen is er een soort "religieuze hypocrisie" er is een officiële moraal en de praktijk.

Wat de situatie van de vrouw betreft : in de praktijk was die "baas in huis", vooral als ze zelf uit werken ging. Plezant was wel "het overspel" ttz. dat was een verschijnsel waar men daar minder hipocriet over was dan hier. Maar vergis u niet om een tweede huwelijk af te sloten had men absoluut de toestemming van vrouw no. 1 nodig !

In het algemeen durf ik te stellen dat moslims zeer vrij met hun godsdienst omgaan:
het is een zaak tussezn henzelf en de Allah met buitensporig veel erbarmen; ten minste voor zover men braaf zijn gebeden opzegt, ramadan houdt enz.. (de 5 pijlers). Dat in tegenstelling met de indruk die men hier heeft van een zeer onderdrukkend systeem
gepropageerd door Salafisten e.d.

Menig Moslima meent hierdoor "vrij" te zijn dank zij de "bescherming" door de godsdienst : in feite een zeer tragische vergissing zoals velen tot hun schade moeten ondervinden.

Vooral de onderdrukking van de ongehuwde meisjes - gedwongen huwelijken zijn een smet op de moslimmaatschappij. In Annaba is er een hoge brug die bekend staat als plaats waar de meisjes zich vanaf werpen om aan deze dwang te kunnen ontsnappen.

Er zitten een aantal interessante aspecten in je verhaal.

Maar ik vrees dat - zoals je schrijft - kijken naar wat het individu doet niet genoeg is.

Gelukkig corrigeer je jezelf even later wanneer je schrijft: In het algemeen is er een soort "religieuze hypocrisie" er is een officiële moraal en de praktijk

Zo kom je naar de essentie.

Natuurlijk is de islam - als godsdienst - in de eerste plaats iets tussen 'god' en het individu. In die zin is zelfs de moskee geen plaats van gebed, maar is het vrijdaggebed eerder een officiële mededeling van de overheid. Er moet wel gezegd worden dat hier in het westen de moskee wel meer neigt naar een gebedsplaats.

Maar naast een godsdienst is de islam in de eerste plaats een systeem dat het ganse publieke leven regelt.

En zo komen we tot de hypocrisie waarvan je spreekt. Wat privaat gebeurt wordt niet bestraft, bijvoorbeeld alcohol drinken, overspel, gedrag in het buitenland maar wanneer dezelfde zaken publiek gebeuren dan volgt bestraffing. Men leeft voor een stuk in een soort van virtuele wereld, men doet of de shari'a bestaat maar die kan niet toegepast worden en is nog nooit toegepast, behalve in het familierecht.

En zo komt men tot een spanning tussen het persoonlijke en het publieke leven en een hypocrisie die daaruit voorkomt en die eigen is aan het systeem. De hoge brug in Annaba die je beschrijft staat daar ergens symbool voor.

Er moet wel worden bijgezegd dat oprecht wordt gestreefd naar een sociale rechtvaardigheid.

Althans, zo zie ik het.

[revoleto]

Thank you for the clarification

roger verhiest


no my dear brothers
-Truth be known though ...

Prophet Muhammad had a monogamous marriage before the passing of Khadijih for twenty four years which was unusual at the time ...

He was twenty five years old when He married Khadijih ... and He was around forty nine years old at the time of her passing.

Gibbon wrote:

During the twenty-four years of their marriage, her youthful husband abstained from the right of polygamy, and the pride or tenderness of the venerable matron was never insulted by the society of a rival. After her death he placed her in the rank of the four perfect women, with the sister of Moses, the mother of Jesus, and Fatima, the best beloved of his daughters.

Khadija bint Khuwaylid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The marriages after Khadijih were arranged for reasons of state and to cement alliances and yes they were allowed per revelation.



To the contrary, it was allowed to take care of Muslim widows and orphans.

Keep in mind that there is nothing in the Bible which restricts the number of wives a man can have (except for bishops and elders.) Christianity adopted monogamy early in its history largely because this was Roman law, not because it was biblical.

like Judaism? The only difference I can see is that while in Islam widows might be enslaved according to the Bible widows should be killed and only virgins enslaved.

"So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children." This is what you are to do, "they said." Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin . "Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan.

The Israelite assembly sent a peace delegation to the little remnant of Benjamin who were living at the rock of Rimmon. Then the men of Benjamin returned to their homes, and the four hundred women of Jabesh-gilead who were spared were given to them as wives. "(Judges 21:10-24 NLT)

"They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings - Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba - died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.

Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves. "
(Numbers 31:7-18)

"As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you. " (Deut. 20:1014)

-Of the main conditions in the legal marriage
Continuation of marital life between the two parties affection and compassion to the end of life
As well as inheritance


- Women take care of children and look after the affairs of the house and her husband in the first place
In her spare time doing useful work for it or to others

- The husband helps his wife in the house and work outside the home
This from the actions of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him, with his wife
Sewing clothes and help in the work of the house
So the Muslim must apply the correct Sauna
will feel happiness
I do not agree with you in the second part to the end
1 - Holy Qur'an and the Hadith is for all time and place
Without shortages or increased
God says in the Holy Qur'an
(3) This day those who disbelieve have despaired of [defeating] your religion; so fear them not, but fear Me. This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion.

2 - polygamy is essential today
You see the ongoing war in Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan, Chechnya, Syria
We can not ignore
Orphans and widows there
3 - polygamy solution to the problem of infertility
Modern methods do not work in every case
So I live with a close community
I see many cases a result of the successful marriage of a second wife

4 - Men's sexual desires
You see in recent years
Opening up the world between countries, the Internet and stirring instincts constantly in the media

So instead of the direction of the Adultery on a daily basis such as the West
There is a solution in Islam, a legal marriage between them, provided of Justice
Either two or three or four

5 - revelation ended
After the death of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him
Anyone who can not be changed or replaced

Do you want to increase to Islam or shortages of it?
This is heresy

God says in the Holy Qur'an

(44) Indeed, We sent down the Torah, in which was guidance and light. The prophets who submitted [to Allah] judged by it for the Jews, as did the rabbis and scholars by that with which they were entrusted of the Scripture of Allah, and they were witnesses thereto. So do not fear the people but fear Me, and do not exchange My verses for a small price. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed – then it is those who are the disbelievers.

(45) And We ordained for them therein a life for a life, an eye for an eye, a nose for a nose, an ear for an ear, a tooth for a tooth, and for wounds is legal retribution. But whoever gives [up his right as] charity, it is an expiation for him. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed – then it is those who are the wrongdoers.


(36) It is not for a believing man or a believing woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decided a matter, that they should [thereafter] have any choice about their affair. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger has certainly strayed into clear error

تركت فيكم ما إن تمسكتم به لن تضلوا بعدي أبدا كتاب الله وسنتي



-Islam respect women
And Muslim women
Comes first
In the life of a Muslim man
Unlike women in the West
Is a cheap commodity
Recognition
Women of the West


- Says Glenda Jackson carrier Oscars awarded by the Queen of Britain and the medal of the highest state medals, which was awarded the British Academy Award, Festival Montreal World says: (The instinct made man is the most powerful and dominant building on to his reasons for the force to make it in the first place, including summed up by the power of God move in life, and extract its resources, it is self-serve when the man that qualify automatically to face the burdens of life, development, and sustained in the areas of life).
B - the U.S. women's leader (Fleche Hlavi) called on women to the need for attention to the husband and children before the job of interest, and must be the husband is the head of the family and the commander of rudderless.
C - In the recent book about the life of English writer famous (Agatha Christie) it is stated as saying: (The women of modern joint-stock; because their position in society is getting worse day by day; we women act act a fool; because we have made the effort over the years; for the right to work and equality in working with men.
And men are not stupid; Hjona has it that advertisers do not mind at all that the working wife and the husband's income has doubled.
It is sad to find that after we proved we women fairer sex weak that we get back in the day to equate effort and sweat, which was awarded to men and alone).
D - says an American psychologist: (Any woman who said: I am sure myself, and went out without censor or kill herself it Haseeb and chastity).

God has guided you to Islam

[Supe®Staaf]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door revoleto

God has guided you to Islam

Oh, no, he hasn't.

[Eigenzinnig]

-The west respects women
And western women
come first..
in the life of western women..
Unlike women in the Islam
Is a (s)cheap commodity

[revoleto]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Eigenzinnig

-The west respects women
And western women
come first..
in the life of western women..
Unlike women in the Islam
Is a (s)cheap commodity

This is not true
Adultery, sex, obscene
Happens on a daily basis on the streets of the West
Honesty with yourself first

[Schelfie]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door revoleto

This is not true
Adultery, sex, obscene
Happens on a daily basis on the streets of the West
Honesty with yourself first

Hij IS eerlijk. Vrouwen hebben hier gelijke rechten en staan op dezelfde hoogte als mannen. Daar kunnen jou geloofsbroeders nog serieus wat van leren.

[alice]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door revoleto

This is not true
Adultery, sex, obscene
Happens on a daily basis on the streets of the West
Honesty with yourself first

Zolang er nog kinderen worden uitgehuwelijkt binnen Islamitische huwelijken, zolang moslima's niet met een niet moslim mogen trouwen, zolang vrouwen toestemming nodig hebben van mannen om te mogen werken, zolang vrouwen onderwijs ontzegd wordt, zolang zij enkel buiten mogen met een magram, zolang vrouwen wordt wijsgemaakt dat het een verplichting is hoofddoeken te dragen, omdat zij verantwoordelijk zijn voor seksueel gedrag van mannen, zolang er " tijdelijke " huwelijken bestaan, zolang vrouwen niet lesbisch mogen zijn, geen zelfbeschikkingsrecht hebben,hun mannen meerdere vrouwen mogen hebben kunt u uw dawa achterwege laten, daar dient dit forum niet voor!

Eerlijkheid? Nu laat u me lachen, bedankt!
Geen enkele vrouw met verstand zal zich onderwerpen aan uw islam.

[cookie monster]

vrouw = levend individu
man = levend individu

Het eeen kaniet zonder de ander , dus ....

[revoleto]

the great Islam gave the woman her honorable value, all the Laws of in the world will not reach this high level

prophet Mohammad said:

1 - Women are the twin halves of men.
2 - The world and all things in it are valuable; but the most valuable thing in the world is a virtuous woman.
3 - The best women are the virtuous; they are the most affectionate to infants, and the most careful of their husband's property.
4 - When a woman performeth the five times of prayer, and fasteth the month of Ramadan, and is chaste, and is not disobedient to her husband, then tell her to enter Paradise by whichever door she liketh.
5 - Verily a great number of women are assembled near my family, complaining of their hubands; and those men who ill-treat their wives do not behave well. He is not of my way who teacheth a woman to stray.
6 - Asma, daughter of Yazid, said, "Victuals were brought to Muhammad, and he put them before some of us women who were present, and said, 'Eat ye.' But notwithstanding we were hungry we said, 'We have no inclination.' Muhammad said, 'O woman! Do not mix hunger with lies.' "
7 - Whoever doeth good to girls, it will be a curtain to him from hell-fire.
8 - Whoever befriendeth two girls till they come of age, will be in the next world along with me, like my two fingers joining each other.
9 - Whoever befriendeth three daughters, or three sisters, and teacheth them manners, and is affectionate to them, till they come of age, may God apportion Paradise for him.
10 - Whoever hath a daughter, and doth not bury her alive or scold her, or prefer his male children to her, may God bring him into Paradise.
11 - Shall I not point out to you the best of virtues? It is your doing good to your daughter when she is returned to you having been divorced by her husband.
12 - God enjoins you to treat women well, for they are your mothers, daughters, aunts.
13 - Do not prevent your women from coming to the mosque.
14 - The believers who show the most perfect faith are those who have the best disposition and the best of you are those who are best to their wives

Also the holy Quran announced her rights:

[And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable;]
[On the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity]
[But bestow on them (a suitable gift), the wealthy according to his means, and the poor according to his means; a gift of a reasonable amount is due from those who wish to do the right thing. ]
[Let the women live (in 'iddat,) in the same style as ye live, according to your means: annoy them not, so as to restrict them]
[From what is left by parents and those nearest related there is a share for men and a share for women, whether the property be small or large, a determinate share]
[And to women what they earn:]
[Permitted to you, on the night of the fasts, is the approach to your wives. They are your garments and ye are their garments]
[O ye who believe! ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may take away part of the dower ye have given them,]
[A divorce is only permissible twice: after that, the parties should either hold together on equitable terms, or separate with kindness. It is not lawful for you, (men), to take back any of your gifts (from your wives),]

the woman in the western world is only commodity in the hands of men ...

[Schelfie]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door revoleto

the great Islam gave the woman her honorable value, all the Laws of in the world will not reach this high level

the woman in the western world is only commodity in the hands of men ...

Mop van de dag...

[circe]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Schelfie

Mop van de dag...

idd. mijn kanarievogeltje krijgt ook eten en drinken.

[BonBon]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door revoleto

the great Islam gave the woman her honorable value, all the Laws of in the world will not reach this high level

prophet Mohammad said:

...

the woman in the western world is only commodity in the hands of men ...

Like i said before, what mohammad said is worthless because you can prove the one or the other out of these texts, it all depends on what and how you read it.

Mohammad said to not worship him as a god, but yet his words are considered infallible, a God-like characteristic impossible for a mere mortal.

[revoleto]

yes my dear brother

Prophet Muhammad does not speak on his own

Narrated by Abu-Huraira: One day while the Prophet was sitting in the company of some people, (The angel) Gabriel came and asked, "What is faith?" Allah's Apostle replied, ' Faith is to believe in Allah, His angels, (the) meeting with Him, His Apostles, and to believe in Resurrection ." Then he further asked, "What is Islam?" Allah's Apostle replied, " To worship Allah Alone and none else, to offer prayers perfectly to pay the compulsory charity (Zakat) and to observe fasts during the month of Ramadan ." Then he further asked, "What is Ihsan (perfection)?" Allah's Apostle replied, " To worship Allah as if you see Him, and if you cannot achieve this state of devotion then you must consider that He is looking at you ." Then he further asked, "When will the Hour be established?" Allah's Apostle replied, " The answerer has no better knowledge than the questioner. But I will inform you about its portents. −1. When a slave (lady) gives birth to her master. −2. When the shepherds of black camels start boasting and competing with others in the construction of higher buildings. And the Hour is one of five things which nobody knows except Allah . The Prophet then recited: " Verily, with Allah (Alone) is the knowledge of the Hour−− ." (31. 34) Then that man (Gabriel) left and the Prophet asked his companions to call him back, but they could not see him. Then the Prophet said, " That was Gabriel who came to teach the people their religion ." Abu `Abdullah said: He (the Prophet) considered all that as a part of faith.

Sahih al-Bukhary, The Book of Faith, Hadith Number:50, Narrated by: Abu-Huraira


(1) By the star when it descends
(2) Your companion [Muhammad] has not strayed, nor has he erred
(3) Nor does he speak from [his own] inclination
(4) It is not but a revelation revealed
(5) Taught to him by one intense in strength
(6) One of soundness. And he rose to [his] true for
(7) While he was in the higher [part of the] horizon
(8) Then he approached and descende
(9) And was at a distance of two bow lengths or nearer
(10) And he revealed to His Servant what he revealed
(11) The heart did not lie [about] what it saw
(12) So will you dispute with him over what he saw
(13) And he certainly saw him in another descen
(14) At the Lote Tree of the Utmost Boundary
(15) Near it is the Garden of Refuge

allah guided you to islam

[BonBon]

Hm, ok. Lets look at this logically.

- "To worship Allah as if you see Him, and if you cannot achieve this state of devotion then you must consider that He is looking at you." Does this imply that a believer doesn't need to devote allah to the extreme? That considering that 'he is looking at you' is enough to be a believer?

- so there was a man with mohammed and some people and he said some nice things about believing and then disappeared outside, according to the profit it surly had to be the angel gabriel. Who els could that man be, the men could not bring him back? Maybe just a man? I'm sure he didn't float in with a bulb of light, it was only the angel gabriel because mohammed said so.

- "1. When a slave (lady) gives birth to her master." So do not fuck your slave or servants because then her kids would become her masters? This happens all the time in arabia with foreign slave-servants.
- "2. When the shepherds of black camels start boasting and competing with others in the construction of higher buildings." The worlds biggest buildings are located in muslim land, is judgment day near?

[cookie monster]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door revoleto

the great Islam gave the woman her honorable value, all the Laws of in the world will not reach this high level

bewijs , aub ????

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door revoleto

the woman in the western world is only commodity in the hands of men ...

bewijs , aub ????

---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door circe

idd. mijn kanarievogeltje krijgt ook eten en drinken.

tjiep tjiep