Re: Dutch language in Belgium.

"-={ P L M }=-" <[email protected]> schreef

> Septante and nonante are used in south Belgium, but also in Luxemburg,
> in some part of eastern France, in some part of the former Duchy of
> Savoie, in Switzerland, in Congo, in Rwanda...
>
> I told you, you better learn french before talking about it !
>


Ik ben nog aan het oefenen.
Frans spreek ik al perfect, maar de cultuur krijg ik niet zo onder de knie.
Vooral de arrogantie, die krijg ik niet aangeleerd.

--

Rudyard Kipling

On Sat, 27 Jan 2007 10:45:05 +0100, Fustigator <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Vitae forma vocatur Curieuzeneus <[email protected]>, die
>Fri, 26 Jan 2007 16:55:14 +0100, in littera
><[email protected]> in foro be.politics(et
>aliis) vere scripsit quod sequitur:
>
>>On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 16:37:17 +0100, "Hemingway" <[email protected]>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Curieuzeneus" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de
>>>news: [email protected]...
>>>> On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 21:52:13 GMT, "Dixit" <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Aksimian Minsskij" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
>>>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>>>> Hello.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I want to imigrate to Belgium soon (because my father is native
>>>>>> Belgian).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So I need to speak Vlaanderen taal.
>>>>>> Maybe it's good idea to study a bit BEFORE arriving to Belgium?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe there's places on the web where I can study not "Holland" but
>>>>>> "Belgium"
>>>>>> type of Dutch??? Since in Russia here I can only find sources to study
>>>>>> Nederlanden taal, but not a Vlaanderen one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A. M.
>>>>>
>>>>>As you might know, the official languages of Belgium are French, German
>>>>>and
>>>>>Dutch.
>>>>>You are better of learning French, as that is a world language, that will
>>>>>serve you better in many countries around the world.
>>>>>For questions about Belgian culture soc.culture.belgium may also be an
>>>>>interesting source.
>>>>>
>>>> If you come to live in the Dutch speaking part of Belgium, what use
>>>> would learning french have? By the way the french spoken in Belgium is
>>>> also a dialect, just look at the smiles on the French people when a
>>>> Walloon is speaking what he thinks is French.
>>>> The Dutch you can learn on the net is understood by the Flemish
>>>> people, some words have different prononciaton but it's not a real
>>>> problem.
>>>> For real information about Belgium and centrainly Flanders, it's
>>>> better to look on the net then reading a forum dominated by the french
>>>> speaking people in Belgium.
>>>>
>>>>>As you correctly pointed out, Flemish is a dialect of Dutch, which means
>>>>>that the Dutch and the Flemish even have troubles understanding each
>>>>>other:
>>>>>their television series are subtitled !
>>>>>So the actual region in which you can use Flemish is, very, very small,
>>>>>even
>>>>>smaller than you would think.
>>>>>
>>>I don't think "wasdana" could be understood by non flemish speakers! So I
>>>agree Flemish is a dialect, not a language. so it isn't possible to learn
>>>dutch in Flanders, as 99% of the flemish can't speak dutch
>>>
>>>Michel.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Septante is french?
>
>Yesss sssirrrr... but no longer used in France since 1789.

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/70_%28nombre%29

<mais par rapport �* l’usage courant en France, ils sont perçus comme
régionaux ou vieillis.>

Regionaux is dialect isn't it?

Bonjour ou bonsoir "Ghingis Khan" <[email protected]>,

Le Sat, 27 Jan 2007 09:33:50 GMT dernier, confondant clavier et VACMA,
tu écrivais 22 lignes �* propos de Re: Dutch language in Belgium. :


>Just like as when you speek french in the middle of China.

Not if you speek chinese, my little boy !
And, so far I know, septante and nonante are definitively part of the
french language !

Good try, mister taal-iban... but you failed !
Next time may be...

--
Meilleurs sentiments de la part de PLM
(Pour me joindre par e-mail, "philippe" suivit de @ et du nom de domaine ci dessous)
-={ Rail Savoie http://www.RailSavoie.fr }=-

On Sat, 27 Jan 2007 09:41:46 +0100, -={ P L M }=-
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Bonjour ou bonsoir Curieuzeneus <[email protected]>,
>
>Le Fri, 26 Jan 2007 11:09:52 +0100 dernier, confondant clavier et
>VACMA, tu écrivais 44 lignes �* propos de Re: Dutch language in
>Belgium. :
>
>
>>By the way the french spoken in Belgium is
>>also a dialect, just look at the smiles on the French people when a
>>Walloon is speaking what he thinks is French.
>
>I think you better start to learn french; just to know what language
>is really spoken in Wallonia !
>
>The french-magyar Belgian !
>
>(ik kan het ook in het nederlands als het moet; maar het zal
>natuurlijk in het ABN zijn, niet in je dialekt !)
>
>Doei !
>

Bof, septante, nonante sont perçus comme régionaux, certain mots
Flamands sont perçus régionaux, alors on parle tous une langue
régionaux.

Wat zou mijn dialect dan wezen volgens jou?

Vitae forma vocatur Curieuzeneus
<[email protected]>, die Sat, 27 Jan 2007
11:28:49 +0100, in littera
<[email protected]> in foro be.politics(et
aliis) vere scripsit quod sequitur:

>On Sat, 27 Jan 2007 10:45:05 +0100, Fustigator <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>Vitae forma vocatur Curieuzeneus <[email protected]>, die
>>Fri, 26 Jan 2007 16:55:14 +0100, in littera
>><[email protected]> in foro be.politics(et
>>aliis) vere scripsit quod sequitur:
>>
>>>On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 16:37:17 +0100, "Hemingway" <[email protected]>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Curieuzeneus" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de
>>>>news: [email protected]...
>>>>> On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 21:52:13 GMT, "Dixit" <[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Aksimian Minsskij" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
>>>>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>>>>> Hello.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I want to imigrate to Belgium soon (because my father is native
>>>>>>> Belgian).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So I need to speak Vlaanderen taal.
>>>>>>> Maybe it's good idea to study a bit BEFORE arriving to Belgium?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe there's places on the web where I can study not "Holland" but
>>>>>>> "Belgium"
>>>>>>> type of Dutch??? Since in Russia here I can only find sources to study
>>>>>>> Nederlanden taal, but not a Vlaanderen one.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A. M.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>As you might know, the official languages of Belgium are French, German
>>>>>>and
>>>>>>Dutch.
>>>>>>You are better of learning French, as that is a world language, that will
>>>>>>serve you better in many countries around the world.
>>>>>>For questions about Belgian culture soc.culture.belgium may also be an
>>>>>>interesting source.
>>>>>>
>>>>> If you come to live in the Dutch speaking part of Belgium, what use
>>>>> would learning french have? By the way the french spoken in Belgium is
>>>>> also a dialect, just look at the smiles on the French people when a
>>>>> Walloon is speaking what he thinks is French.
>>>>> The Dutch you can learn on the net is understood by the Flemish
>>>>> people, some words have different prononciaton but it's not a real
>>>>> problem.
>>>>> For real information about Belgium and centrainly Flanders, it's
>>>>> better to look on the net then reading a forum dominated by the french
>>>>> speaking people in Belgium.
>>>>>
>>>>>>As you correctly pointed out, Flemish is a dialect of Dutch, which means
>>>>>>that the Dutch and the Flemish even have troubles understanding each
>>>>>>other:
>>>>>>their television series are subtitled !
>>>>>>So the actual region in which you can use Flemish is, very, very small,
>>>>>>even
>>>>>>smaller than you would think.
>>>>>>
>>>>I don't think "wasdana" could be understood by non flemish speakers! So I
>>>>agree Flemish is a dialect, not a language. so it isn't possible to learn
>>>>dutch in Flanders, as 99% of the flemish can't speak dutch
>>>>
>>>>Michel.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Septante is french?
>>
>>Yesss sssirrrr... but no longer used in France since 1789.
>
>http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/70_%28nombre%29
>
><mais par rapport �* l’usage courant en France, ils sont perçus comme
>régionaux ou vieillis.>
>
>Regionaux is dialect isn't it?

Kan maar hoeft niet.
--
Fusti

Vitae forma vocatur "Rudyard Kipling" <[email protected]>, die Sat,
27 Jan 2007 18:30:12 +0800, in littera <[email protected]> in foro
soc.culture.belgium(et aliis) vere scripsit quod sequitur:

>"-={ P L M }=-" <[email protected]> schreef
>
>> Septante and nonante are used in south Belgium, but also in Luxemburg,
>> in some part of eastern France, in some part of the former Duchy of
>> Savoie, in Switzerland, in Congo, in Rwanda...
>>
>> I told you, you better learn french before talking about it !
>>
>
>
>Ik ben nog aan het oefenen.
>Frans spreek ik al perfect,

o ja?

Dat gaan we eens samen testen bij de volgende reünie, als je tyoyt
hoier ooit nog geraakt, vanuit Oeigoerië...

> maar de cultuur krijg ik niet zo onder de knie.

Wat scheelt daar aan?

>Vooral de arrogantie, die krijg ik niet aangeleerd.

Ga op school bij Yves Desmet en Pol Vandendriessche, dat zijn allebei
duchtige Vlamingen.
--
Fusti

Bonjour ou bonsoir Curieuzeneus
<[email protected]>,

Le Sat, 27 Jan 2007 11:21:27 +0100 dernier, confondant clavier et
VACMA, tu écrivais 16 lignes �* propos de Re: Dutch language in
Belgium. :

>>Just like as when you speek dutch (or vlaams) in the middle of France
>>!
>Then you deserve to be looked at like something from outer space.

What ? Nothing else but this silly answer ?

Tsssss, poor boy....

--
Meilleurs sentiments de la part de PLM
(Pour me joindre par e-mail, "philippe" suivit de @ et du nom de domaine ci dessous)
-={ Rail Savoie http://www.RailSavoie.fr }=-

Bonjour ou bonsoir Curieuzeneus
<[email protected]>,

Le Sat, 27 Jan 2007 11:27:00 +0100 dernier, confondant clavier et
VACMA, tu écrivais 32 lignes �* propos de Re: Dutch language in
Belgium. :

>If Flemish is a dialect and not Dutch,
>why should the language spoken
>outside of France be considered as French and not as a dialect?

For the same reason that the spanish spoken in Mexico is not
considered as a dialect; for the same reason that the english spoken
in the USA is not considered as a dialect etc...

Anything else ?


>http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/70_%28nombre%29
><mais par rapport �* l’usage courant en France, ils sont perçus comme
>régionaux ou vieillis.>
>Merci pour le lien.

Pas de quoi !

--
Meilleurs sentiments de la part de PLM
(Pour me joindre par e-mail, "philippe" suivit de @ et du nom de domaine ci dessous)
-={ Rail Savoie http://www.RailSavoie.fr }=-

Bonjour ou bonsoir "Rudyard Kipling" <[email protected]>,

Le Sat, 27 Jan 2007 18:30:12 +0800 dernier, confondant clavier et
VACMA, tu écrivais 17 lignes �* propos de Re: Dutch language in
Belgium. :

>> I told you, you better learn french before talking about it !
>
>Ik ben nog aan het oefenen.
>Frans spreek ik al perfect, maar de cultuur krijg ik niet zo onder de knie.
>Vooral de arrogantie, die krijg ik niet aangeleerd.

Sinds dat ik soms geconfronteerd ben aan sommige arrogante Vlamingen
heb ik ook, hier en daar, taal problemen... maar nooit met
intelligente Vlamingen !

PLM: 50% Franse, 50% Magyar, vandaag 100% Belg...

Durf jij dat ook ?

--
Meilleurs sentiments de la part de PLM
(Pour me joindre par e-mail, "philippe" suivit de @ et du nom de domaine ci dessous)
-={ Rail Savoie http://www.RailSavoie.fr }=-

Bonjour ou bonsoir Curieuzeneus
<[email protected]>,

Le Sat, 27 Jan 2007 11:28:49 +0100 dernier, confondant clavier et
VACMA, tu écrivais 80 lignes �* propos de Re: Dutch language in
Belgium. :

>http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/70_%28nombre%29
>
><mais par rapport �* l’usage courant en France, ils sont perçus comme
>régionaux ou vieillis.>
>
>Regionaux is dialect isn't it?

No ! It just mean that they speaks the same language, but some
expressions may differ, the way to pronounce may look different; but
it is definitively the same language !

I speak the same way french in Belgium, in Luxemburg, in Switzerland
and even in my home land: France; and guess... everybody understands
me.

When I look at a french, swiss or even luxembourgish serie in french
on TV, they aren't any subtitles. I was astonished to see that dutch
serie shows dutch/vlaams subtiles while on VRT or VTM...

But I'm sure there is an explonation to this...

Any idea what it could be ?
--
Meilleurs sentiments de la part de PLM
(Pour me joindre par e-mail, "philippe" suivit de @ et du nom de domaine ci dessous)
-={ Rail Savoie http://www.RailSavoie.fr }=-

Bonjour ou bonsoir Curieuzeneus
<[email protected]>,

Le Sat, 27 Jan 2007 11:38:37 +0100 dernier, confondant clavier et
VACMA, tu écrivais 30 lignes �* propos de Re: Dutch language in
Belgium. :

>Bof, septante, nonante sont perçus comme régionaux, certain mots
>Flamands sont perçus régionaux, alors on parle tous une langue
>régionaux.

Aaah, je préfère entendre cela !

>Wat zou mijn dialect dan wezen volgens jou?

Niets zolang dat je het verschil maakt tussen een dialect en een taal
!
En natuurlijk, zolang dat je begrijpt dat septante en nonante franse
woorden zijn.

Eindelijk, iets dat je moet ook nooit vergeten: de feit dat de beste
"grammairien" in het franse taal ... belg zijn ! (Maurice Grévisse,
Marc Wilmet, André Goosse)

Hier een link naar een canadese site:
http://www.uqtr.ca/~bougaief/Grevisse/accueil.htm




--
Meilleurs sentiments de la part de PLM
(Pour me joindre par e-mail, "philippe" suivit de @ et du nom de domaine ci dessous)
-={ Rail Savoie http://www.RailSavoie.fr }=-

Fustigator schreef:
>> Septante is french?
>
> Yesss sssirrrr... but no longer used in France since 1789.

Welke schlemiel hanteert anno 2007 nog het middeleeuwse twintigdelige
getalstelsel?

Ik stel volgende voor:

dix
vingt
trente
quarante
cinquante
soixante
septante
huitante
nonante
cent

Welkom in de 21e eeuw

Vitae forma vocatur -={ P L M }=- <[email protected]>, die
Sat, 27 Jan 2007 14:30:17 +0100, in littera
<[email protected]> in foro
soc.culture.belgium(et aliis) vere scripsit quod sequitur:

>Bonjour ou bonsoir "Rudyard Kipling" <[email protected]>,
>
>Le Sat, 27 Jan 2007 18:30:12 +0800 dernier, confondant clavier et
>VACMA, tu écrivais 17 lignes �* propos de Re: Dutch language in
>Belgium. :
>
>>> I told you, you better learn french before talking about it !
>>
>>Ik ben nog aan het oefenen.
>>Frans spreek ik al perfect, maar de cultuur krijg ik niet zo onder de knie.
>>Vooral de arrogantie, die krijg ik niet aangeleerd.
>
>Sinds dat ik soms geconfronteerd ben aan sommige arrogante Vlamingen
>heb ik ook, hier en daar, taal problemen... maar nooit met
>intelligente Vlamingen !

Die bestaan gelukkig nog.

>
>PLM: 50% Franse, 50% Magyar, vandaag 100% Belg...

Fusti: lim. 100% echte Vlaming(een Ier in de 18e eeuw in de stamboom),
maar waarschijnlijk oudere resten van DNA van Spanjaarden , Romeinen
en Kelten

>Durf jij dat ook ?

Dat zou ik wel eens willen zien...
--
Fusti

Vitae forma vocatur "Leo B." <[email protected]>, die Sat, 27 Jan 2007
17:27:22 GMT, in littera
<[email protected]> in foro
be.politics(et aliis) vere scripsit quod sequitur:

>Fustigator schreef:
>>> Septante is french?
>>
>> Yesss sssirrrr... but no longer used in France since 1789.
>
>Welke schlemiel hanteert anno 2007 nog het middeleeuwse twintigdelige
>getalstelsel?
>
>Ik stel volgende voor:
>
>dix
>vingt
>trente
>quarante
>cinquante
>soixante
>septante
>huitante
>nonante
>cent
>
>Welkom in de 21e eeuw

Octante kan ook.
--
Fusti

On Sat, 27 Jan 2007 14:38:42 +0100, -={ P L M }=-
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Bonjour ou bonsoir Curieuzeneus
><[email protected]>,
>
>Le Sat, 27 Jan 2007 11:28:49 +0100 dernier, confondant clavier et
>VACMA, tu écrivais 80 lignes �* propos de Re: Dutch language in
>Belgium. :
>
>>http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/70_%28nombre%29
>>
>><mais par rapport �* l’usage courant en France, ils sont perçus comme
>>régionaux ou vieillis.>
>>
>>Regionaux is dialect isn't it?
>
>No ! It just mean that they speaks the same language, but some
>expressions may differ, the way to pronounce may look different; but
>it is definitively the same language !
>
>I speak the same way french in Belgium, in Luxemburg, in Switzerland
>and even in my home land: France; and guess... everybody understands
>me.
>
>When I look at a french, swiss or even luxembourgish serie in french
>on TV, they aren't any subtitles. I was astonished to see that dutch
>serie shows dutch/vlaams subtiles while on VRT or VTM...
>
>But I'm sure there is an explonation to this...
>
>Any idea what it could be ?

You should ask the people that decided to put those subtitles there.
Maybe for the people from the region Oostende and Kortijk?