De Russische intocht is eindelijk begonnen - Pagina 23

Jan van den Berghe · 2 september 2014, 21:30

Citaat:

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Anselmo

Zij hebben zich verenigd in deze draad

http://forum.politics.be/showthread.php?t=206704

en schijnen onderling goed overeen te komen.
De is goed zo en de anderen hebben er geen "last" van.

Vooral zonbron schijnt nogal graag met zichzelf te praten. Hij beantwoordt zijn eigen berichten. Gewoonweg hilarisch!

Nietzsche · 2 september 2014, 21:31

Citaat:

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Jan van den Berghe

Vooral zonbron schijnt nogal graag met zichzelf te praten. Hij beantwoordt zijn eigen berichten. Gewoonweg hilarisch!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EEW-9NDM5k

Nr.10 · 2 september 2014, 22:12

Citaat:

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door E. Migrant

Als Rusland zo'n drastische maatregel neemt, lijkt het mij dat het hier weer gaat om een van de zovele door Soros gesponsorde subversieve vzw's, NGO's etc. die via 'democratisering' op termijn een 'regime change' moeten voorbereiden.

² Dergelijke smeercampagne NGO's worden uitvoerig van financiële middelen voorzien door de US/UK.
Ze zijn onderdeel van langdurige inspanningen om zich te mengen in de interne aangelegenheden van het land dat men wil destabiliseren om uiteindelijke te komen tot gewelddadige regime change.

Jan van den Berghe · 2 september 2014, 22:14

Citaat:

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Nr.10

² Dergelijke smeercampagne NGO's worden uitvoerig van financiële middelen voorzien door de US/UK.
Ze zijn onderdeel van langdurige inspanningen om zich te mengen in de interne aangelegenheden van het land dat men wil destabiliseren om uiteindelijke te komen tot gewelddadige regime change.

Grappig met welke complottheorieën jullie voortdurend afkomen. Als we het mogen geloven, is zowat alles de schuld van de VS. En de Joden ook natuurlijk.

Reverberation · 2 september 2014, 22:18

Citaat:

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Jan van den Berghe

Vooral zonbron schijnt nogal graag met zichzelf te praten. Hij beantwoordt zijn eigen berichten. Gewoonweg hilarisch!

Nee hoor, da gaat gewoon te snel voor u...

Jan van den Berghe · 2 september 2014, 22:21

Citaat:

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Reverberation

Nee hoor, da gaat gewoon te snel voor u...

Snel? Het zijn voortdurend dezelfde berichten met steeds dezelfde ingrediënten, CIA, VS, Joden, Israël, nazi's, e.d.

E. Migrant · 3 september 2014, 19:53

Porky zorgt ervoor dat er geen sancties tegen Putin komen?

Want de 2 zouden ineens dikke vrienden geworden zijn, en Porky vindt het ineens "barbaars" om onschuldige burgers te bombarderen. (VRT nieuws)

wtf ?

E. Migrant · 3 september 2014, 20:07

Een aardig opiniestukje:

Opinion: High price for ceasefire in eastern Ukraine

The Kremlin will have reached an interim goal if there is a ceasefire in eastern Ukraine. But it wouldn’t mean the end of the conflict, writes DW’s Ingo Mannteufel.
All signs point to a change of course in Ukraine. After a phone call with Russian President Vladimir Putin, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko mentioned an agreement of a ceasefire in eastern Ukraine. Details and the roadmap to a possible truce remain unclear for now, however. There are contradictory signals coming from Kyiv, Moscow and the regions controlled by separatists. It would be great news for the local population if the fighting did indeed stop. But a ceasefire would have fundamental political consequences for the months of conflict in Ukraine.

A new frozen conflict
A permanent end of fighting would mean victory in this conflict for the separatists who are supported by Russia. They would cement their power in the controlled areas and could increase it further. That's the goal in Putin's seven-point-plan on solving the conflict. That would turn the situation in eastern Ukraine into a new "frozen conflict," of which there have been several in the post-Soviet area for the past 25 years: in Transnistria, Abkhazia, South Ossetia, and Nagorno-Karabakh.
To Russian policymakers, those "frozen conflicts" are familiar territory and indeed ultimately very welcome. Russian interests can be defended in endless diplomatic negotiations via such proxy structures. And Russia can exert its influence on domestic policies in the concerned countries.
Tough power politics is what guides this strategy. Russia lost its most important political ally in Kyiv - Ukraine's President Yanukovich and the pro-Russian party of the regions - in the "Euromaidan" revolution which culminated in February. Since then, it has become clear that the Kremlin will use other means to influence Ukraine's political future. A ceasefire - which President Putin has called for repeatedly over recent weeks - would mean a secret victory for his Ukraine strategy.

Poroshenko, a loser
The fact that Ukraine's Poroshenko seems ready to accept a ceasefire is understandable after recent days' events: the losses of Ukrainian government forces and the land gains made by the separatists, who seem to be supported even by regular army units from Russia, appear to have made Poroshenko realize that the military solution to the conflict he has been aiming for since late June has failed. The additional front line opened by the separatists near Mariupol in the very south of the Donetsk region has increased pressure on Kyiv.
If there was a ceasefire, the bloodshed would end at last. But politically, Poroshenko and his government would take a high risk, just ahead of the parliamentary elections scheduled for October. Many Ukrainians would feel offended, resenting the ceasefire and the resulting de facto capitulation. That is particularly true for the many nationalist voluntary units who have seen big losses in their own ranks over recent days. It's hard to imagine that those forces, politically difficult to control, will follow the political logic of a ceasefire. Intense domestic tensions would be the result. In the elections, radical parties could make significant gains. A partisan war in eastern Ukraine can also not be excluded.

Another loser
The European Union, and above all Germany, have pushed for an end to the fighting for weeks, campaigning for a political solution. But if the situation turns into a frozen conflict there is a risk that parts of the Ukrainian society will turn their backs on Europe. For weeks, Ukrainians heard rumors of a deal between Berlin and Moscow, according to which Poroshenko would end the fighting, and virtually hand over Donetsk and Luhansk to the separatists. Many Ukrainians therefore feel betrayed by the EU and especially by Germany.
Several European countries share the impression that the EU's answer to Russian aggression against a neighboring country was not resolute enough. A frozen conflict in eastern Ukraine would cause long-lasting aftershocks in the European Union. Relations with Russia and with Ukraine are probably strained for years. Europe will not be able to return to the status quo before the conflict.

Date03.09.2014

http://m.dw.de/english/mobile.A-17897974-9097.html

Reverberation · 3 september 2014, 20:09

Citaat:

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door E. Migrant

Porky zorgt ervoor dat er geen sancties tegen Putin komen?

Want de 2 zouden ineens dikke vrienden geworden zijn, en Porky vindt het ineens "barbaars" om onschuldige burgers te bombarderen. (VRT nieuws)

wtf ?

Porky beseft dat het geld opraakt en dat zijn leger in de pan wordt gehakt.
Yatsidebiel heeft dit nog niet door.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-0...test-ceasefire

Reverberation · 3 september 2014, 20:18

Waarom vraagt de VRT Verhofstadt eens niet voor een reactie?

Reverberation · 3 september 2014, 20:18

Onze VRT vergeet natuurlijk weer de nuances...

Ukraine today geeft Russia today lik op stuk

http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/vi...OT-RussiaToday

En dan nu in context :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9pos-2H7cw

Objectieve berichtgeving weer van onze geliefde VRT...

zonbron · 3 september 2014, 20:29

Citaat:

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Jan van den Berghe

Vooral zonbron schijnt nogal graag met zichzelf te praten. Hij beantwoordt zijn eigen berichten. Gewoonweg hilarisch!

Beste meneer Jan van den Berghe, een forum bestaat om informatie en meningen te delen en deze te bespreken. Dus niet om te zanikken of off topic te trollen waardoor de informatie moeilijker terug te vinden wordt en de correcte communicatie verstoord wordt.

Hartelijk dank,

zb

non-conformist · 3 september 2014, 20:35

Die plank in da kot in de achtertuin is wss overgelopen en hij loopt een beetje gefrustreerd rond

Jan van den Berghe · 3 september 2014, 20:38

Citaat:

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door zonbron

Beste meneer Jan van den Berghe, een forum bestaat om informatie en meningen te delen en deze te bespreken. Dus niet om te zanikken of off topic te trollen waardoor de informatie moeilijker terug te vinden wordt en de correcte communicatie verstoord wordt.

Inderdaad, een plaats voor "informatie en meningen". 't Kan dus niet de bedoeling zijn een forum vol te gooien met de raarste complottheorieën.

Reverberation · 3 september 2014, 20:41

Citaat:

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Jan van den Berghe

Inderdaad, een plaats voor "informatie en meningen". 't Kan dus niet de bedoeling zijn een forum vol te gooien met de raarste complottheorieën.

zonbron · 3 september 2014, 20:58

Citaat:

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Jan van den Berghe

Inderdaad, een plaats voor "informatie en meningen". 't Kan dus niet de bedoeling zijn een forum vol te gooien met de raarste complottheorieën.

Geef daar dan maar eens een voorbeeld van, ben benieuwd hoor.

Allesstroomt · 7 september 2014, 05:16

De oost duitse kanselier van Duitsland heeft Poetin de Krim beloofd in ruil voor wat heisa om zo de Europese Unie samen te houden. Niets dat zo bindt als een externe vijand. En dat mag wat kosten.

E. Migrant · 7 september 2014, 11:19

Hier en daar roert zich een stem in het westers kamp:

Vladimir Putin’s 'unacceptable’ action in Ukraine was predictable and provoked
Nato leaders don’t know what to do about Mr Putin and the civil war in Ukraine, and have been misreading this crisis since it began

By Christopher Booker
5:03PM BST 06 Sep 2014

It is always revealing when politicians tell us that something is “unacceptable”. What they mean is that, although people might expect them to do something about it, they haven’t got a clue what it is they can do. That was why, as the Western leaders gathered for that Nato summit in Wales, several, including David Cameron, told us that President Putin’s intervention in Ukraine was “unacceptable”.
The real problem here is not just that our leaders don’t know what they can do about Mr Putin and that horrible civil war in Ukraine, which has already killed nearly 3,000 people and which the Russians seem to be winning hands down. It is that they and many others in the West have been misreading this crisis ever since it began at the start of the year.

It cannot be said often enough that what triggered the crisis was not Mr Putin’s desire to restore the boundaries of the Soviet Union, but the ludicrously misguided ambition of the West to see Ukraine absorbed into the EU and Nato. There was never any way that either Mr Putin or all those Russian speakers in eastern Ukraine and Crimea were going to take kindly to seeing the country which was the cradle of Russian identity become part of a Western power bloc. Russia would be even less happy to see the only warm-water ports for its navy taken over by a military alliance that had been set up to counter Russia in the first place.

When 96 per cent of Crimeans democratically voted in March to join Russia, this was not, as Western politicians now tell us, because Mr Putin wanted to “annexe” their country. It was because the 82 per cent of them who speak Russian as their main language wanted to rejoin a country Crimea had been part of for two centuries.
Yet, at the very same time, the democratically elected government of Ukraine was being toppled by mobs of demonstrators in the streets of Kiev, many of whom were being paid from Brussels funds to shout “Europe, Europe” at Baroness Ashton, as she urged them to sign that “association agreement” which was the last step but one to Ukraine becoming a full member state of the EU.

That is why the EU, with America’s backing, has been led by its own vainglorious delusions into the mess we see today. The Nato leaders know there is little they can usefully do about it. For months they have been talking about those “sanctions”, while being only too uncomfortably aware that the EU depends on Russia for 30 per cent of the gas it needs to keep its cookers working and its lights on. Even when President Hollande of France was urging David Cameron all those months ago to slam the doors of the City of London on the Russian bankers and oligarchs who have £27 billion invested in the UK, we knew that Britain had £46 billion invested in Russia.

So our leaders sat round the table in that ghastly concrete hotel in Wales, prattling about ever more sanctions. They send their little “battle groups” to march round in circles in Poland. They huff and they puff about what is “unacceptable”. But they know they dare not risk trying to blow the house down.
Meanwhile, Mr Putin and the Russians of Ukraine’s industrial heartland do exactly what could have been predicted, as they fight to establish a semi-autonomous “buffer state” between Russia and the West.

Our leaders have been caught out by a crisis that anyone of intelligence should have seen coming, from the moment they so recklessly and unnecessarily set it on its way.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-provoked.html

Geert C · 7 september 2014, 12:26

Christopher Booker? Echt? Vijf minuutjes opzoekingswerk leert dat die man de evolutieleer ontkent, de opwarming van de aarde, de link tussen passief roken en longkanker en nu dus ook de Russische agressie tegen Oekraïne. Met andere woorden, als die man iets beweert dan is de kans groot dat het tegendeel waar is.

E. Migrant · 7 september 2014, 14:11

Citaat:

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Geert C

Christopher Booker? Echt? Vijf minuutjes opzoekingswerk leert dat die man de evolutieleer ontkent, de opwarming van de aarde, de link tussen passief roken en longkanker en nu dus ook de Russische agressie tegen Oekraïne. Met andere woorden, als die man iets beweert dan is de kans groot dat het tegendeel waar is.

Lijkt mij eerder iemand die niet alles wat gecanoniseerd is tot waarheid verheft, maar kritisch durft te zijn.

3 september 2014, 20:18	#450
Reverberation Minister Geregistreerd: 26 maart 2013 Berichten: 3.929	Waarom vraagt de VRT Verhofstadt eens niet voor een reactie? __________________ "They sell their debt, their privately made paper&ink, push the countries, the world into debt and what they want back are real, tangeble assets, and they won't stop till they own the whole thing. They don't want the debt paid off, just the interest, they want to keep this balanced till they have what they want, all of it." Central Banks

3 september 2014, 20:18	#451
Reverberation Minister Geregistreerd: 26 maart 2013 Berichten: 3.929	Onze VRT vergeet natuurlijk weer de nuances... Ukraine today geeft Russia today lik op stuk http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/vi...OT-RussiaToday En dan nu in context : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9pos-2H7cw *Objectieve* berichtgeving weer van onze geliefde VRT... __________________ "They sell their debt, their privately made paper&ink, push the countries, the world into debt and what they want back are real, tangeble assets, and they won't stop till they own the whole thing. They don't want the debt paid off, just the interest, they want to keep this balanced till they have what they want, all of it." Central Banks Laatst gewijzigd door Reverberation : 3 september 2014 om 20:35.

7 september 2014, 05:16	#457
Allesstroomt Gouverneur Geregistreerd: 18 augustus 2014 Berichten: 1.121	De oost duitse kanselier van Duitsland heeft Poetin de Krim beloofd in ruil voor wat heisa om zo de Europese Unie samen te houden. Niets dat zo bindt als een externe vijand. En dat mag wat kosten. __________________ It's important not too confuse opposition against central planning with a dogmatic laissez faire attitude. The liberal argument is in favor of making the best possible use of the forces of competition as a means of coordinating human efforts, not an argument for leaving things just as they are. F.A.Hayek "De besten missen elke overtuiging, terwijl de slechtsten overlopen van hartstochtelijke intensiteit" Yeats.

3 september 2014, 19:53	#447
E. Migrant Banneling Geregistreerd: 4 oktober 2011 Berichten: 1.745	Porky zorgt ervoor dat er geen sancties tegen Putin komen? Want de 2 zouden ineens dikke vrienden geworden zijn, en Porky vindt het ineens "barbaars" om onschuldige burgers te bombarderen. (VRT nieuws) wtf ?

3 september 2014, 20:07	#448
E. Migrant Banneling Geregistreerd: 4 oktober 2011 Berichten: 1.745	Een aardig opiniestukje: Opinion: High price for ceasefire in eastern Ukraine The Kremlin will have reached an interim goal if there is a ceasefire in eastern Ukraine. But it wouldn’t mean the end of the conflict, writes DW’s Ingo Mannteufel. All signs point to a change of course in Ukraine. After a phone call with Russian President Vladimir Putin, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko mentioned an agreement of a ceasefire in eastern Ukraine. Details and the roadmap to a possible truce remain unclear for now, however. There are contradictory signals coming from Kyiv, Moscow and the regions controlled by separatists. It would be great news for the local population if the fighting did indeed stop. But a ceasefire would have fundamental political consequences for the months of conflict in Ukraine. A new frozen conflict A permanent end of fighting would mean victory in this conflict for the separatists who are supported by Russia. They would cement their power in the controlled areas and could increase it further. That's the goal in Putin's seven-point-plan on solving the conflict. That would turn the situation in eastern Ukraine into a new "frozen conflict," of which there have been several in the post-Soviet area for the past 25 years: in Transnistria, Abkhazia, South Ossetia, and Nagorno-Karabakh. To Russian policymakers, those "frozen conflicts" are familiar territory and indeed ultimately very welcome. Russian interests can be defended in endless diplomatic negotiations via such proxy structures. And Russia can exert its influence on domestic policies in the concerned countries. Tough power politics is what guides this strategy. Russia lost its most important political ally in Kyiv - Ukraine's President Yanukovich and the pro-Russian party of the regions - in the "Euromaidan" revolution which culminated in February. Since then, it has become clear that the Kremlin will use other means to influence Ukraine's political future. A ceasefire - which President Putin has called for repeatedly over recent weeks - would mean a secret victory for his Ukraine strategy. Poroshenko, a loser The fact that Ukraine's Poroshenko seems ready to accept a ceasefire is understandable after recent days' events: the losses of Ukrainian government forces and the land gains made by the separatists, who seem to be supported even by regular army units from Russia, appear to have made Poroshenko realize that the military solution to the conflict he has been aiming for since late June has failed. The additional front line opened by the separatists near Mariupol in the very south of the Donetsk region has increased pressure on Kyiv. If there was a ceasefire, the bloodshed would end at last. But politically, Poroshenko and his government would take a high risk, just ahead of the parliamentary elections scheduled for October. Many Ukrainians would feel offended, resenting the ceasefire and the resulting de facto capitulation. That is particularly true for the many nationalist voluntary units who have seen big losses in their own ranks over recent days. It's hard to imagine that those forces, politically difficult to control, will follow the political logic of a ceasefire. Intense domestic tensions would be the result. In the elections, radical parties could make significant gains. A partisan war in eastern Ukraine can also not be excluded. Another loser The European Union, and above all Germany, have pushed for an end to the fighting for weeks, campaigning for a political solution. But if the situation turns into a frozen conflict there is a risk that parts of the Ukrainian society will turn their backs on Europe. For weeks, Ukrainians heard rumors of a deal between Berlin and Moscow, according to which Poroshenko would end the fighting, and virtually hand over Donetsk and Luhansk to the separatists. Many Ukrainians therefore feel betrayed by the EU and especially by Germany. Several European countries share the impression that the EU's answer to Russian aggression against a neighboring country was not resolute enough. A frozen conflict in eastern Ukraine would cause long-lasting aftershocks in the European Union. Relations with Russia and with Ukraine are probably strained for years. Europe will not be able to return to the status quo before the conflict. Date03.09.2014 http://m.dw.de/english/mobile.A-17897974-9097.html

3 september 2014, 20:35	#453
non-conformist Europees Commissaris Geregistreerd: 8 september 2013 Berichten: 6.210	Die plank in da kot in de achtertuin is wss overgelopen en hij loopt een beetje gefrustreerd rond

7 september 2014, 11:19	#458
E. Migrant Banneling Geregistreerd: 4 oktober 2011 Berichten: 1.745	Hier en daar roert zich een stem in het westers kamp: Vladimir Putin’s 'unacceptable’ action in Ukraine was predictable and provoked Nato leaders don’t know what to do about Mr Putin and the civil war in Ukraine, and have been misreading this crisis since it began By Christopher Booker 5:03PM BST 06 Sep 2014 It is always revealing when politicians tell us that something is “unacceptable”. What they mean is that, although people might expect them to do something about it, they haven’t got a clue what it is they can do. That was why, as the Western leaders gathered for that Nato summit in Wales, several, including David Cameron, told us that President Putin’s intervention in Ukraine was “unacceptable”. The real problem here is not just that our leaders don’t know what they can do about Mr Putin and that horrible civil war in Ukraine, which has already killed nearly 3,000 people and which the Russians seem to be winning hands down. It is that they and many others in the West have been misreading this crisis ever since it began at the start of the year. It cannot be said often enough that what triggered the crisis was not Mr Putin’s desire to restore the boundaries of the Soviet Union, but the ludicrously misguided ambition of the West to see Ukraine absorbed into the EU and Nato. There was never any way that either Mr Putin or all those Russian speakers in eastern Ukraine and Crimea were going to take kindly to seeing the country which was the cradle of Russian identity become part of a Western power bloc. Russia would be even less happy to see the only warm-water ports for its navy taken over by a military alliance that had been set up to counter Russia in the first place. When 96 per cent of Crimeans democratically voted in March to join Russia, this was not, as Western politicians now tell us, because Mr Putin wanted to “annexe” their country. It was because the 82 per cent of them who speak Russian as their main language wanted to rejoin a country Crimea had been part of for two centuries. Yet, at the very same time, the democratically elected government of Ukraine was being toppled by mobs of demonstrators in the streets of Kiev, many of whom were being paid from Brussels funds to shout “Europe, Europe” at Baroness Ashton, as she urged them to sign that “association agreement” which was the last step but one to Ukraine becoming a full member state of the EU. That is why the EU, with America’s backing, has been led by its own vainglorious delusions into the mess we see today. The Nato leaders know there is little they can usefully do about it. For months they have been talking about those “sanctions”, while being only too uncomfortably aware that the EU depends on Russia for 30 per cent of the gas it needs to keep its cookers working and its lights on. Even when President Hollande of France was urging David Cameron all those months ago to slam the doors of the City of London on the Russian bankers and oligarchs who have £27 billion invested in the UK, we knew that Britain had £46 billion invested in Russia. So our leaders sat round the table in that ghastly concrete hotel in Wales, prattling about ever more sanctions. They send their little “battle groups” to march round in circles in Poland. They huff and they puff about what is “unacceptable”. But they know they dare not risk trying to blow the house down. Meanwhile, Mr Putin and the Russians of Ukraine’s industrial heartland do exactly what could have been predicted, as they fight to establish a semi-autonomous “buffer state” between Russia and the West. Our leaders have been caught out by a crisis that anyone of intelligence should have seen coming, from the moment they so recklessly and unnecessarily set it on its way. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-provoked.html

7 september 2014, 12:26	#459
Geert C Perm. Vertegenwoordiger VN Geregistreerd: 29 november 2007 Berichten: 15.670	Christopher Booker? Echt? Vijf minuutjes opzoekingswerk leert dat die man de evolutieleer ontkent, de opwarming van de aarde, de link tussen passief roken en longkanker en nu dus ook de Russische agressie tegen Oekraïne. Met andere woorden, als die man iets beweert dan is de kans groot dat het tegendeel waar is.