Het ware, vreedzame gezicht van de Islam. - Pagina 3

Esperanza · 17 februari 2005, 16:31

Citaat:

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Mosasaurus

daar had JIJ sowieso GEEN recht op

Gelukkig maar, ik was al bang van het tegenovergestelde.

Rene Artois · 23 februari 2005, 22:46

Citaat:

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door thePiano

Een belangrijk en veel geciteerde traditie van Mohammed (vzmh) is toen hij zijn metgezellen vertelde, op weg naar huis na een strijd: “We keren terug van een kleine jihad (de strijd) naar een grotere jihad”, de meest noodzakelijke en gewichtig taak van het uitroeien van verkeerde handelingen in iemands eigen gemeenschap en iemands eigen hart.

Ik wil er maar effe op wijzen dat deze "traditie" van de dubbele betekenis van jihad fel betwist wordt. De meerderheid van islamitische schriftgeleerden beschouwt de herkomst van deze uitspraak als twijfelachtig en onbetrouwbaar. Over de eerste vorm van jihad is wel degelijk iedereen het eens.

Michroscoop · 24 februari 2005, 13:52

Citaat:

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door ashrawi

Nochtans heeft abou jahjah zijn partij maar een 100-tal stemmen gehaald en heeft het VB er 1.000.000....

Het moet nu maar eens gedaan zijn met over Gematigde en Extreme Moslims te spreken. Hun godsdienst heeft extremisme en onderdrukking als fundament.
Het verschil zit tussen Jahjah en de "softe" Moslims zit m in de methode om de Godsstaat te vestigen. Eigenlijk zijn de "gematigde" en "geïntegreerde" Moslims nog gevaarlijker want een effectieve 5de colonne die dan nog regelmatig van nieuw bloed vanuit hun achterlijke thuislanden worden voorzien.

Raven · 24 februari 2005, 16:26

Karen heeft volledig gelijk. Islam is een religie van vrede en solidariteit (maar ie vergeet erbij te zeggen dat dat enkel voor moslims onderling van toepassing is

)

Voor Christenen & Joden werd er de dhimmitude bedacht. Over de rechten en vooral de plichten en beperkingen van dhimmies zwijgt de threadstarter en Karen Armstrong dan ook wijselijk.

Voor ketters & atheïsten bestaat dit "privilige" zelfs niet eens, en de noord-afrikaanse volkeren zullen het geweten hebben.

Wel mooi omschreven hoe het uitmoorden van hele stammen eigenlijk "het vrede brengen in een oorlog-verscheurd continent" wordt genoemd. Misschien dat Karen Armstrong of thePiano ons ook even kunnen zeggen waar zowat de hele 3de stam van één van de 3 joodse stammen van Medina naar toe zijn gegaan? ( A) Naar de hel B) In de grond C) de mannen&kinderen in de grond en de vrouwen, gedegradeerd tot slavinnen, naar een levende hel)

C uit W · 24 februari 2005, 17:28

Bet You Can't Find 'Jihad' in the Koran [naar index]
(Robert Spencer / Dr. Abu Ziyaad Human Events - 17-2)

Islamist Group Strong-Arms American Media

A prominent Islamic apologist named Jamal Badawi, renowned as a "moderate Muslim," has offered one million dollars to anyone who can find references in the Koran that condone "religious war, or jihad." He blames the media for giving people this idea.

Well, I want to be a millionaire. There are many verses in the Koran that enjoin believers to fight. While some may spiritualize them, their literal meaning is not hard to understand. This verse also makes clear the religious (and physical) character of the fight:

Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom. (47:4)

This one states the goal of the fighting in terms that also make clear that the war is religious:

And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah. (8:39)

And this one establishes that he warfare is against the People of the Book, that is, Jews and Christians:

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. (9:29)

There are many other such verses, but I don't have to speak with Dr. Badawi to know what he will say about this list: I am taking the verses out of context. I can only understand them properly in the original Arabic. I need to be well-versed in the science of Koranic interpretation, tafsir, to be able to understand them. Only an "Islamophobe" would take such verses at face value.

Very well. But what about Muslims take them at face value? The Ingushetian Shura Council in Chechyna has explained in a recent communiqué that Allah "permitted Jihad on His Straight Way, so that the Religion of Allah could be above all, so that all areas of life could be guided by Islam, and so that the Earth could be cleansed of unbelief." In support of this idea, the Council quoted Sura 8:39, as it appears above. Likewise, in a treatise entitled "The true meaning of Jihad" that was posted last year on several jihadists websites, one Sidik Aucbur charged that "the West" was trying to distort the meaning of jihad by teaching that "Jihad is only about struggling against our desires." He quotes the Koran copiously to establish that jihad means warfare against unbelievers, and declares: "there are over 120 verses of the Koran that use the Shari' [Islamic legal] meaning of Jihad to mean fighting and killing." Aucbur adds that all four major schools of Sunni Muslim jurisprudence agree on this point: "It has been agreed upon by the classical scholars that the Shari'ah meaning of Jihad is to fight and kill the kuffar [unbelievers]."

Aucbur is hardly eccentric in pointing out this sort of thing; such arguments are echoed by jihadists worldwide, who use passages of the Koran and Islamic law to recruit new jihad warriors and convince Muslims that theirs is the "true Islam." Is Badawi unaware of all this? Rather than throw his millions around with claims that the Koran contains nothing in the way of exhortations to religious warfare, wouldn't it be more honest of him to acknowledge that such passages exist and are used by jihadists, and to offer some cogent explanation of how their force can be blunted within the Islamic community -- if indeed it can?

This is one of the fundamental defects of the post-9/11 discourse in America: Muslim spokesmen again and again have insisted that Americans accept that Islam is a religion of peace, without offering a shred of evidence to this effect. Meanwhile, Muslims worldwide continue to commit violence in the name of Islam, and bland denials like Badawi's do nothing to stop them. As long as this goes on, nothing effective can or will be done to stop the ideology of jihad terrorism from proliferating in mosques and Islamic schools in the United States and around the world.

The Bergen (N.J.) Record noted that Badawi made his million-dollar offer "jokingly," although it did not occur to the reporter (again, typically) to question his assertion about the Koran. It's a good thing Badawi was joking: while I appreciate his kind offer, I don't know what I would do with a million dollars anyway.

Mr. Spencer is the director of Jihad Watch and the author of Onward Muslim Soldiers: How Jihad Still Threatens America and the West (Regnery Publishing -- a HUMAN EVENTS sister company) and Islam Unveiled: Disturbing Questions About the World's Fastest Growing Faith (Encounter Books).

ago · 28 februari 2005, 18:52

Islam

Het woord islam betekent 'zich onderwerpen' (aan de wil van Allah), dus niet 'vrede', zoals veel islam-apologeten ons willen laten geloven. De islam is een politiek-religieuze ideologie die in de zesde eeuw door Mohammed is gesticht.

24 februari 2005, 16:26	#44
Raven Perm. Vertegenwoordiger VN Geregistreerd: 31 maart 2004 Locatie: Nabij het Reigersnest Berichten: 10.447	Karen heeft volledig gelijk. Islam is een religie van vrede en solidariteit (maar ie vergeet erbij te zeggen dat dat enkel voor moslims onderling van toepassing is ) Voor Christenen & Joden werd er de dhimmitude bedacht. Over de rechten en vooral de plichten en beperkingen van dhimmies zwijgt de threadstarter en Karen Armstrong dan ook wijselijk. Voor ketters & atheïsten bestaat dit "privilige" zelfs niet eens, en de noord-afrikaanse volkeren zullen het geweten hebben. Wel mooi omschreven hoe het uitmoorden van hele stammen eigenlijk "het vrede brengen in een oorlog-verscheurd continent" wordt genoemd. Misschien dat Karen Armstrong of thePiano ons ook even kunnen zeggen waar zowat de hele 3de stam van één van de 3 joodse stammen van Medina naar toe zijn gegaan? ( A) Naar de hel B) In de grond C) de mannen&kinderen in de grond en de vrouwen, gedegradeerd tot slavinnen, naar een levende hel) __________________ NEE tegen assimilatie! NEE tegen racisme! Laatst gewijzigd door Raven : 24 februari 2005 om 16:33.

24 februari 2005, 17:28	#45
C uit W Perm. Vertegenwoordiger VN Geregistreerd: 11 januari 2003 Locatie: Vlaanderen Berichten: 12.249	Bet You Can't Find 'Jihad' in the Koran [naar index] (Robert Spencer / Dr. Abu Ziyaad Human Events - 17-2) Islamist Group Strong-Arms American Media A prominent Islamic apologist named Jamal Badawi, renowned as a "moderate Muslim," has offered one million dollars to anyone who can find references in the Koran that condone "religious war, or jihad." He blames the media for giving people this idea. Well, I want to be a millionaire. There are many verses in the Koran that enjoin believers to fight. While some may spiritualize them, their literal meaning is not hard to understand. This verse also makes clear the religious (and physical) character of the fight: Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom. (47:4) This one states the goal of the fighting in terms that also make clear that the war is religious: And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah. (8:39) And this one establishes that he warfare is against the People of the Book, that is, Jews and Christians: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. (9:29) There are many other such verses, but I don't have to speak with Dr. Badawi to know what he will say about this list: I am taking the verses out of context. I can only understand them properly in the original Arabic. I need to be well-versed in the science of Koranic interpretation, tafsir, to be able to understand them. Only an "Islamophobe" would take such verses at face value. Very well. But what about Muslims take them at face value? The Ingushetian Shura Council in Chechyna has explained in a recent communiqué that Allah "permitted Jihad on His Straight Way, so that the Religion of Allah could be above all, so that all areas of life could be guided by Islam, and so that the Earth could be cleansed of unbelief." In support of this idea, the Council quoted Sura 8:39, as it appears above. Likewise, in a treatise entitled "The true meaning of Jihad" that was posted last year on several jihadists websites, one Sidik Aucbur charged that "the West" was trying to distort the meaning of jihad by teaching that "Jihad is only about struggling against our desires." He quotes the Koran copiously to establish that jihad means warfare against unbelievers, and declares: "there are over 120 verses of the Koran that use the Shari' [Islamic legal] meaning of Jihad to mean fighting and killing." Aucbur adds that all four major schools of Sunni Muslim jurisprudence agree on this point: "It has been agreed upon by the classical scholars that the Shari'ah meaning of Jihad is to fight and kill the kuffar [unbelievers]." Aucbur is hardly eccentric in pointing out this sort of thing; such arguments are echoed by jihadists worldwide, who use passages of the Koran and Islamic law to recruit new jihad warriors and convince Muslims that theirs is the "true Islam." Is Badawi unaware of all this? Rather than throw his millions around with claims that the Koran contains nothing in the way of exhortations to religious warfare, wouldn't it be more honest of him to acknowledge that such passages exist and are used by jihadists, and to offer some cogent explanation of how their force can be blunted within the Islamic community -- if indeed it can? This is one of the fundamental defects of the post-9/11 discourse in America: Muslim spokesmen again and again have insisted that Americans accept that Islam is a religion of peace, without offering a shred of evidence to this effect. Meanwhile, Muslims worldwide continue to commit violence in the name of Islam, and bland denials like Badawi's do nothing to stop them. As long as this goes on, nothing effective can or will be done to stop the ideology of jihad terrorism from proliferating in mosques and Islamic schools in the United States and around the world. The Bergen (N.J.) Record noted that Badawi made his million-dollar offer "jokingly," although it did not occur to the reporter (again, typically) to question his assertion about the Koran. It's a good thing Badawi was joking: while I appreciate his kind offer, I don't know what I would do with a million dollars anyway. Mr. Spencer is the director of Jihad Watch and the author of Onward Muslim Soldiers: How Jihad Still Threatens America and the West (Regnery Publishing -- a HUMAN EVENTS sister company) and Islam Unveiled: Disturbing Questions About the World's Fastest Growing Faith (Encounter Books). __________________ "Denken ist schwer, darum urteilen die meisten."

28 februari 2005, 18:52	#46
ago Burgemeester Geregistreerd: 23 januari 2005 Berichten: 507	Islam Het woord islam betekent 'zich onderwerpen' (aan de wil van Allah), dus niet 'vrede', zoals veel islam-apologeten ons willen laten geloven. De islam is een politiek-religieuze ideologie die in de zesde eeuw door Mohammed is gesticht.