Moslims zijn weer eens trots op hun oorlogsdaden in Europa.

[maddox]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door atmosphere

Erg hypocriet om dat alleen aan moslims toe te schrijven .

Waar schrijf ik dat toe aan "alleen" de moslims?
Ik dicht veel van die religieuze verlakkerij toe aan de Ahbramistische godsdiensten.

[Dixie]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door filosoof

De VN ging pas daartoe over na een leugencampagne van de VS betreffende de WMD en intensief lobbyen van de VS op basis daarvan.

fout leugens again

De Perzische Golfoorlog van 1990-1991 (aanvankelijk Tweede Golfoorlog geheten omdat men de oorlog tussen Iran (Perzië) en Irak als Eerste Golfoorlog beschouwde; later werd dit de Eerste Perzische Golfoorlog of de Koeweitoorlog genoemd) was een oorlog in 1990 en 1991 waarbij Irak aanvankelijk Koeweit binnentrok en veroverde, en later door een door de Verenigde Staten geleide internationale coalitie en met mandaat van de Verenigde Naties (VN) weer uit het land werd verdreven.
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golfoorlog_(1990-1991)

neen de VN ging ten aanval omdat koeweit was binnengevallen en sanctioneerde irak naderhand niet de VS

al de doden zijn op het conto van saddam en niet enkel zijn legers bedoel ik
wil je saddam niet met de vinger wijzen dan doe je dat aan de VN zij legden namelijk sancties op

Irak zou zich in de jaren 1991-2003 zoveel mogelijk aan de controle van de VN-wapeninspecteurs onttrekken. Irak misbruikte bovendien het Olie-voor-voedselprogramma. Dit programma stond beperkte handel in olie toe als uitzondering op het embargo tegen Irak, op voorwaarde dat van de opbrengst voedsel en medicijnen zouden worden gekocht voor de Iraakse bevolking. De opbrengst werd echter gebruikt door de partijtop voor de aanschaf van buitenlandse luxegoederen en wellicht zelfs (her)bewapening. Uiteindelijk zouden de VS het land in 2003 alsnog bezetten.

[artisjok]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Savatage

Zal wel.

Lees zelf.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...%80%93Iraq_war

[Dixie]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door artisjok

Lees zelf.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...%80%93Iraq_war

maar vooral dit dan ALLE landen die irak en iran steunden:

Iraq's army was primarily equipped with weaponry it had purchased from the Soviet Union and its satellites in the preceding decade. During the war, it purchased billions of dollars worth of advanced equipment from France, the People's Republic of China, Egypt, Germany, and other sources

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interna...%80%93Iraq_War

[artisjok]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Dixie

maar vooral dit dan ALLE landen die irak en iran steunden:

Iraq's army was primarily equipped with weaponry it had purchased from the Soviet Union and its satellites in the preceding decade. During the war, it purchased billions of dollars worth of advanced equipment from France, the People's Republic of China, Egypt, Germany, and other sources

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interna...%80%93Iraq_War

Vooral?
"Evengoed" vind ik een beter woord.
Daar staan nog niet alle landen.

Maar wat ik me dan afvraag is; waarom doen die landen dat, steun geven aan andere landen in oorlog? Is dat om levens te redden? Om de bevolking vooruit te helpen? Of hebben ze daar dan weer geen geld voor over.

[grimbergen]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Savatage

Is dat nu het meest geweldadige dat je hebt kunnen vinden in het NT? Wel proficiat, een mooie illustratie van hoe vreedzaam het christendom is in vergelijking met islamisme.

Hier wat minder zachtaardige verwijzingen. Ze komen dan ook niet uit het Nieuwe Testament:

Inderdaad. Het filosofisch maske zal rap een tandje moeten bijzetten.

[filosoof]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Dixie

een oorlog in 1990 en 1991 waarbij Irak aanvankelijk Koeweit binnentrok en veroverde, en later door een door de Verenigde Staten geleide internationale coalitie en met mandaat van de Verenigde Naties (VN) weer uit het land werd verdreven.

Wat betreft de inval van Saddam in Kuweit, de gesprekken tussen US-afgevaardigde April Glaspie en Saddam welke tot die inval leidden zijn ondertussen al lang gekend.
Hier is er een transcriptie:

TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW/EXCHANGE BETWEEN U.S. AMBASSADOR TO IRAQ APRIL GLASPIE AND SADDAM HUSSEIN JULY 25, 1990 (EIGHT DAYS BEFORE THE IRAQI INVASION OF KUWAIT)

SADDAM HUSSEIN: "As you know, for years now I have made every effort to reach a settlement on our dispute with Kuwait. There is to be a meeting in two days: I am prepared to give negotiations only this one more brief chance. When we [the Iraqis] meet [with the Kuwaitis] and we see that there is hope, then nothing will happen. But if we are unable to find a solution, then it will be natural that Iraq will not accept death."

GLASPIE: "What solutions would be acceptable?"

SADDAM HUSSEIN: "If we could keep the whole of the Shatt al Arab, our
strategic goal in our war with Iran, we will make concessions [to the
Kuwaitis]. But if we are forced to choose between keeping half of the Shatt
and the whole of Iraq [i.e. including Kuwait], then we will give up all of
the Shatt to defend our claims on Kuwait to keep the whole of Iraq in the
shape we wish it to be. What is the United States' opinion on this?"

GLASPIE (Pause, then she speaks very carefully): " We have no opinion on your Arab-Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait. Secretary [of State, James] Baker has directed me to emphasize this instruction, first given to Iraq in the 1960s, that the Kuwait issue is not associated with America."

SADDAM HUSSEIN: Smiles.
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/pipermail...ary/064232.htm

GLASPIE: I think I understand this. I have lived here for years. I admire your extraordinary efforts to rebuild your country. I know you need funds. We understand that and our opinion is that you should have the opportunity to rebuild your country. But we have no opinion on the Arab-Arab conflicts, like your border disagreement with Kuwait.
http://chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/glaspie.html

Twee links uit de academische wereld, niet van een obscure haatsite. En méér dan duidelijk.

Het komt er dus op neer dat de VS Saddam een groen licht gaven voor die invasie (kijk naar de datum!) en die invasie dan later gebruikten als 'reden' voor hun militair optreden en alle slachtoffers die ze maakten.

(vermoedelijk was Saoedi-Arabië niet zo gelukkig met dat Amerikaans groen licht)

Google gerust wat op April Glaspie en Saddam, je zal ruim bevestiging vinden.
In de Washington Post bvb:
http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/p...il_saddam.html

[Dixie]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door filosoof

Wat betreft de inval van Saddam in Kuweit, de gesprekken tussen US-afgevaardigde April Glaspie en Saddam welke tot die inval leidden zijn ondertussen al lang gekend.
Hier is er een transcriptie:

TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW/EXCHANGE BETWEEN U.S. AMBASSADOR TO IRAQ APRIL GLASPIE AND SADDAM HUSSEIN JULY 25, 1990 (EIGHT DAYS BEFORE THE IRAQI INVASION OF KUWAIT)




Twee links uit de academische wereld, niet van een obscure haatsite. En méér dan duidelijk.

Het komt er dus op neer dat de VS Saddam een groen licht gaven voor die invasie (kijk naar de datum!) en die invasie dan later gebruikten als 'reden' voor hun militair optreden en alle slachtoffers die ze maakten.

(vermoedelijk was Saoedi-Arabië niet zo gelukkig met dat Amerikaans groen licht)

Google gerust wat op April Glaspie en Saddam, je zal ruim bevestiging vinden.
In de Washington Post bvb:
http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/p...il_saddam.html

dat staat er niet, leer engels wil je...
er staat dat de VS zich niet wensen te moeien in arab arab relaties...

[filosoof]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Dixie

dat staat er niet, leer engels wil je...
er staat dat de VS zich niet wensen te moeien in arab arab relaties...

Lees toch wat de vraag van Saddam was:

SADDAM HUSSEIN: "If we could keep the whole of the Shatt al Arab, our
strategic goal in our war with Iran, we will make concessions [to the
Kuwaitis]. But if we are forced to choose between keeping half of the Shatt
and the whole of Iraq [i.e. including Kuwait], then we will give up all of
the Shatt to defend our claims on Kuwait to keep the whole of Iraq in the
shape we wish it to be. What is the United States' opinion on this?"

Het antwoord was dat Amerika zich daar niet mee moeit:

we have no opinion on the Arab-Arab conflicts, like your border disagreement with Kuwait.

Ofwel een stommiteit , ofwel een valstrik voor Saddam om militair te kunnen ingrijpen in het M-O (en militaire basissen te verkrijgen in Saudi Arabië) en de controle te verwerven over de olievoorraden van Irak.


Lees ook eens de Asia Times hierover:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/FI17Ak01.html

[Dixie]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door filosoof

Lees wat de vraag van Saddam was:

Het antwoord was dat Amerika zich daar niet mee moeit:

ik vind die diplomaat zijn antwoord zelfs schitterend
wel jammer voor de VS bashers:

de VS moeit zich NIET in arab arab relaties

de VN daarintegen wel natuurlijk

[filosoof]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Dixie

ik vind die diplomaat zijn antwoord zelfs schitterend
wel jammer voor de VS bashers:

de VS moeit zich NIET in arab arab relaties

de VN daarintegen wel natuurlijk

De VN pas na intensief lobbyen vanwege de Amerikaanse regering.

IMHO duidelijk een val die voor Saddam opengezet werd en hij tuinde erin.

Zeg nu eens eerlijk, had je écht dat onderhoud tussen Glaspie en Saddam nog nooit gelezen? Het werd jaren vermeld op Wikipedia bvb (ik weet niet hoeveel er nog daar staat)

[Dixie]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door filosoof

De VN pas na intensief lobbyen vanwege de Amerikaanse regering.

IMHO duidelijk een val die voor Saddam opengezet werd en hij tuinde erin.

niets intensief lobbyen dezelfde dag van de inval...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...Resolution_660
niets val irak had enorme schulden tov koeweit en wou het zo even oplossen

[atmosphere]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Dixie

ik vind die diplomaat zijn antwoord zelfs schitterend
wel jammer voor de VS bashers:

de VS moeit zich NIET in arab arab relaties

Summer 1979: U.S. begins arming and organizing Islamic fundamentalist "Mujahideen" in Afghanistan. National Security Advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski writes, "This aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention," drawing the Soviets into an Afghan quagmire. Over the next decade the U.S. alone passed more than $3 billion in arms and aid to the Mujahideen, with another $3 billion provided by the U.S. ally Saudi Arabia.

November 4, 1979: Islamic militants, backed by the Khomeini regime, seize the U.S. embassy in Teheran and demand the U.S. return the Shah to Iran for trial. The Embassy and 52 U.S. personnel are held for 444 days; this international embarrassment prompts new U.S. actions against Iran--including an abortive rescue attempt.

December 1979: Soviet troops invade Afghanistan--which the U.S. rulers considered a "buffer state" between the Soviet Union to the north and the strategically important states of Iran and Pakistan to the south--overthrowing the Amin government and installing a more pro-Soviet regime.

1980: U.S. begins organizing a "Rapid Deployment Force," increasing its naval presence and pre-positioning military equipment and supplies. It also steps up aid to reactionary client states such as Turkey, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. On September 12, Turkey's military seizes power and unleashes a brutal clampdown on revolutionaries and Kurds struggling for liberation in order to "stabilize" the country as a key U.S. ally.

Summer 1980: As the Carter administration tries to bully Iran into surrendering the U.S. hostages, supporters of presidential candidate Ronald Reagan cut a secret deal with the Islamic Republic: promising that the Reagan administration will allow Israel to ship arms to Iran if Iran continues to hold the hostages during the coming presidential campaign to cripple Carter's campaign for re-election. (Gary Sick)

September 22, 1980: Iraq invades Iran with tacit U.S. support, starting a bloody eight-year war. The U.S. supports both sides in the war providing arms to Iran and money, intelligence and political support to Iraq in order to prolong the war and weaken both sides, while trying to draw both countries into the U.S. orbit.

1981: U.S. holds military maneuvers off the coast of Libya to bully the Qaddafi government. When a Libyan plane fires a missile at U.S. planes penetrating Libyan airspace, two Libyan planes are shot down.

1981: The Reagan administration secretly encourages Israel and other allies, such as South Korea and Turkey, to ship hundreds of millions of U.S.-made arms to Iran despite a ban on the shipment of U.S.-made weapons.

From the fall of 1981 through the winter of 1982, forces led by the Union of Iranian Communists, Sarbederan, mount an historic resistance to the Islamic Republic; the uprising at Amol at the end of January 1982 is brutally crushed by the forces of the Islamic Republic.

1982: After receiving a "green light" from the U.S., Israel invades Lebanon to crush Palestinian and other anti-U.S. and anti-Israeli forces. Over 20,000 Lebanese and Palestinians are killed, and Israel seizes southern Lebanon, holding it until 2000.

September 14, 1982: Lebanon's pro-U.S. President-elect, Bashir al-Jumayyil, is assassinated. The following day, Israeli forces occupy West Beirut, and from 16 to 18 September, the Phalangist militia, with the support of Israel's military under now-Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, move into the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps and barbarically massacre over 1,000 unarmed Palestinian men, women, and children.

1983: U.S. sends troops to Lebanon, supposedly as part of a multinational "peace-keeping" operation but in reality to protect U.S. interests, including Israel's occupation forces. U.S. troops are withdrawn after a suicide bomber destroys a U.S. Marine barracks.

1983: CIA helps murder Gen. Ahmed Dlimi, a prominent Moroccan Army commander who seeks to overthrow the pro-U.S. Moroccan monarchy.

Spring 1983: The U.S. provides the Islamic Republic of Iran with a list of Soviet agents.

1984: U.S. shoots down two Iranian jets over Persian Gulf.

1985-1986: The U.S. secretly ships weapons to Iran, including 1,000 TOW anti-tank missiles, Hawk missile parts, and Hawk radars. The weapons are exchanged for U.S. hostages in Lebanon, and in hopes of increased U.S. leverage in Iran. The secret plot collapses when it is publicly revealed on November 3, 1986, by the Lebanese magazine, Al-Shiraa. (The Chronology)

1985: U.S. attempts to assassinate Sheikh Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah, a Lebanese Shiite leader. 80 people are killed in the unsuccessful attempt. (Blum)

1986: When a bomb goes off in a Berlin nightclub and kills two Americans, the U.S. blames Libya's Qaddafi. U.S. bombers strike Libyan military facilities, residential areas of Tripoli and Benghazi, and Qaddafi's house, killing 101 people, including Qaddafi's adopted daughter.

1987: The U.S. Navy is dispatched to the Persian Gulf to prevent Iran from cutting off Iraq's oil shipments. During these patrols, a U.S. ship shoots down an Iranian civilian airliner, killing all 290 onboard.

1988: The Iraqi regime launches mass poison-gas attacks on Kurds, killing thousands and bulldozing many villages. The U.S. responds by increasing its support for the Iraqi regime.

July 1988: A cease-fire ends the Iran-Iraq war with neither side victorious. Over 1 million Iranians and Iraqis are killed during the 8-year war.

1989: The last Soviet troops leave Afghanistan. The war, fueled by U.S.-Soviet rivalry, has torn Afghanistan apart, killing more than one million Afghans and forcing one-third of the population to flee into refugee camps. More than 15,000 Soviet soldiers die in the war.

July 1990: April Glaspie, U.S. Ambassador to Iraq, meets with Saddam Hussein, who threatens military action against Kuwait for overproducing its oil quota, slant drilling for oil in Iraqi territory, and encroaching on Iraqi territory--seriously harming war weakened Iraq. Glaspie replies, "We have no opinion on the Arab- Arab conflicts, like your border disagreement with Kuwait."

August 1990: Iraq invades Kuwait. The U.S. seizes the moment to assert its hegemony in the post-Soviet world and strengthen its grip on the Persian Gulf: the U.S. condemns Iraq, rejects a diplomatic settlement, imposes sanctions, and prepares for an all-out military assault on Iraq.

January 16, 1991: After a 6-month military buildup, the U.S.-led coalition launches "Operation Desert Storm." For the next 42 days, U.S. and allied planes pound Iraq, dropping 88,000 tons of bombs, systematically targeting and largely destroying its electrical and water systems. On February 22, 1991, the U.S. coalition begins its 100-hour ground war. Heavily armed U.S. units drive deep into southern Iraq. Overall, 100,000 to 200,000 Iraqis are killed during the war.

Spring 1991: Shi'ites in the south and Kurds in the north rise up against Hussein's regime in Iraq. The U.S., after encouraging these uprisings during the war, now fears turmoil and instability in the region and refuses to support the rebels. The U.S. denies the rebels access to captured Iraqi weapons and allows Iraqi helicopters to attack them.

1991: Iraq withdraws from Kuwait and agrees to a UN-brokered cease-fire, but the U.S. and Britain insist that devastating sanctions be maintained. The U.S. declares large parts of north and south Iraq "no-fly" zones for Iraqi aircraft.

1991-present: U.S. military deployments continue after the war, with 17,000 to 24,000 U.S. troops in the Persian Gulf region at any given time. (CSM)

1992: U.S. Marines land near Mogadishu, Somalia, supposedly to ensure humanitarian relief and "restore order." But the U.S. also plans to remove the dominant warlord, Mohammed Aidid, and install a more pro-U.S. regime. In June 1983, after numerous gun battles with Aidid forces, U.S. helicopters strafe Aidid supporters, killing scores. In October, when U.S. forces attempt to kidnap two Aidid lieutenants, a fierce gunbattle breaks out. Five U.S. helicopters are shot down, 18 U.S. soldiers killed and 73 wounded, while 500 to 1000 Somalians are killed and many more injured.

March 1992: U.S. Defense Department drafts new, post-Soviet "Defense Planning Guidance" paper stating, "In the Middle East and Southwest Asia, our overall objective is to remain the predominant outside power in the region and preserve U.S. and Western access to the region's oil."

1993: U.S. brokers a "peace" agreement between Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization at Oslo, Norway. The agreement strengthens Israel and U.S. domination, while leaving Palestinians a small part of their historic homeland, broken up into isolated pieces surrounded by Israel. No provisions are made for the return of the four million Palestinian refugees living outside of Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza.

1993: U.S. launches missile attack on Iraq, claiming self-defense against an alleged assassination attempt on former president Bush two months earlier.

1995: The U.S. imposes oil and trade sanctions against Iran, reinforcing sanctions in effect since 1979, for alleged sponsorship of 'terrorism', seeking to acquire nuclear arms and hostility to the Middle East process. (BBC, CSM)

1995: With U.S. backing, Turkey launches a major military offensive, involving some 35,000 Turkish troops, against the Kurds in northern Iraq.

1998: Congress passes the "Iraq Liberation Act," giving nearly $100 million to groups attempting to overthrow the Hussein regime.

August 1998: Claiming retaliation for attacks on U.S. embassies in Tanzania and Kenya, President Clinton sends 75 cruise missiles pounding into rural Afghanistan --supposedly targeting Osama Bin Laden. The U.S. also destroys a factory producing half of Sudan's pharmaceutical supply, claiming the factory is involved in chemical warfare. The U.S. later acknowledges there is no evidence for the chemical warfare charge.

December 16-19, 1998: The U.S. and Britain launch "Operation Desert Fox," a bombing campaign supposedly aimed at destroying Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs. For most of the next year, U.S. and British planes strike Iraq every day with missiles. (BBC)

October 1999: The U.S. Department of Defense shifts command of its forces in Central Asia from the Pacific Command to the Central Command, underlining the heightened importance of the region, which includes vast oil reserves in and around the Caspian Sea.

January 2001: Tenth anniversary of the U.S. war on Iraq: sanctions are still in place and the UN estimates that 4,500 children are dying per month from disease and malnutrition as a result. The U.S. planes, which have flown over 280,000 sorties in Iraq over the past decade, continue to attack from the air. In the past two years, over 300 Iraqis have been killed in these bombings.

[atmosphere]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Dixie

maar vooral dit dan ALLE landen die irak en iran steunden:

Iraq's army was primarily equipped with weaponry it had purchased from the Soviet Union and its satellites in the preceding decade. During the war, it purchased billions of dollars worth of advanced equipment from France, the People's Republic of China, Egypt, Germany, and other sources

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interna...%80%93Iraq_War

Heerlijk hoe u de veel intensievere bemoeinis van de VS probeerd weg te schoffelen met u feitje over Russische wapens .

Geen enkel ander land heeft saddam zo intensief gesteund als de VS, steun die veel verder ging als wapenverkoop .

[filosoof]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door atmosphere

Summer 1979: U.S. begins arming and organizing Islamic fundamentalist "Mujahideen" in Afghanistan. National Security Advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski writes, "This aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention," drawing the Soviets into an Afghan quagmire. Over the next decade the U.S. alone passed more than $3 billion in arms and aid to the Mujahideen, with another $3 billion provided by the U.S. ally Saudi Arabia.

November 4, 1979: Islamic militants, backed by the Khomeini regime, seize the U.S. embassy in Teheran and demand the U.S. return the Shah to Iran for trial. The Embassy and 52 U.S. personnel are held for 444 days; this international embarrassment prompts new U.S. actions against Iran--including an abortive rescue attempt.

December 1979: Soviet troops invade Afghanistan--which the U.S. rulers considered a "buffer state" between the Soviet Union to the north and the strategically important states of Iran and Pakistan to the south--overthrowing the Amin government and installing a more pro-Soviet regime.

1980: U.S. begins organizing a "Rapid Deployment Force," increasing its naval presence and pre-positioning military equipment and supplies. It also steps up aid to reactionary client states such as Turkey, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. On September 12, Turkey's military seizes power and unleashes a brutal clampdown on revolutionaries and Kurds struggling for liberation in order to "stabilize" the country as a key U.S. ally.

Summer 1980: As the Carter administration tries to bully Iran into surrendering the U.S. hostages, supporters of presidential candidate Ronald Reagan cut a secret deal with the Islamic Republic: promising that the Reagan administration will allow Israel to ship arms to Iran if Iran continues to hold the hostages during the coming presidential campaign to cripple Carter's campaign for re-election. (Gary Sick)

September 22, 1980: Iraq invades Iran with tacit U.S. support, starting a bloody eight-year war. The U.S. supports both sides in the war providing arms to Iran and money, intelligence and political support to Iraq in order to prolong the war and weaken both sides, while trying to draw both countries into the U.S. orbit.

1981: U.S. holds military maneuvers off the coast of Libya to bully the Qaddafi government. When a Libyan plane fires a missile at U.S. planes penetrating Libyan airspace, two Libyan planes are shot down.

1981: The Reagan administration secretly encourages Israel and other allies, such as South Korea and Turkey, to ship hundreds of millions of U.S.-made arms to Iran despite a ban on the shipment of U.S.-made weapons.

From the fall of 1981 through the winter of 1982, forces led by the Union of Iranian Communists, Sarbederan, mount an historic resistance to the Islamic Republic; the uprising at Amol at the end of January 1982 is brutally crushed by the forces of the Islamic Republic.

1982: After receiving a "green light" from the U.S., Israel invades Lebanon to crush Palestinian and other anti-U.S. and anti-Israeli forces. Over 20,000 Lebanese and Palestinians are killed, and Israel seizes southern Lebanon, holding it until 2000.

September 14, 1982: Lebanon's pro-U.S. President-elect, Bashir al-Jumayyil, is assassinated. The following day, Israeli forces occupy West Beirut, and from 16 to 18 September, the Phalangist militia, with the support of Israel's military under now-Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, move into the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps and barbarically massacre over 1,000 unarmed Palestinian men, women, and children.

1983: U.S. sends troops to Lebanon, supposedly as part of a multinational "peace-keeping" operation but in reality to protect U.S. interests, including Israel's occupation forces. U.S. troops are withdrawn after a suicide bomber destroys a U.S. Marine barracks.

1983: CIA helps murder Gen. Ahmed Dlimi, a prominent Moroccan Army commander who seeks to overthrow the pro-U.S. Moroccan monarchy.

Spring 1983: The U.S. provides the Islamic Republic of Iran with a list of Soviet agents.

1984: U.S. shoots down two Iranian jets over Persian Gulf.

1985-1986: The U.S. secretly ships weapons to Iran, including 1,000 TOW anti-tank missiles, Hawk missile parts, and Hawk radars. The weapons are exchanged for U.S. hostages in Lebanon, and in hopes of increased U.S. leverage in Iran. The secret plot collapses when it is publicly revealed on November 3, 1986, by the Lebanese magazine, Al-Shiraa. (The Chronology)

1985: U.S. attempts to assassinate Sheikh Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah, a Lebanese Shiite leader. 80 people are killed in the unsuccessful attempt. (Blum)

1986: When a bomb goes off in a Berlin nightclub and kills two Americans, the U.S. blames Libya's Qaddafi. U.S. bombers strike Libyan military facilities, residential areas of Tripoli and Benghazi, and Qaddafi's house, killing 101 people, including Qaddafi's adopted daughter.

1987: The U.S. Navy is dispatched to the Persian Gulf to prevent Iran from cutting off Iraq's oil shipments. During these patrols, a U.S. ship shoots down an Iranian civilian airliner, killing all 290 onboard.

1988: The Iraqi regime launches mass poison-gas attacks on Kurds, killing thousands and bulldozing many villages. The U.S. responds by increasing its support for the Iraqi regime.

July 1988: A cease-fire ends the Iran-Iraq war with neither side victorious. Over 1 million Iranians and Iraqis are killed during the 8-year war.

1989: The last Soviet troops leave Afghanistan. The war, fueled by U.S.-Soviet rivalry, has torn Afghanistan apart, killing more than one million Afghans and forcing one-third of the population to flee into refugee camps. More than 15,000 Soviet soldiers die in the war.

July 1990: April Glaspie, U.S. Ambassador to Iraq, meets with Saddam Hussein, who threatens military action against Kuwait for overproducing its oil quota, slant drilling for oil in Iraqi territory, and encroaching on Iraqi territory--seriously harming war weakened Iraq. Glaspie replies, "We have no opinion on the Arab- Arab conflicts, like your border disagreement with Kuwait."

August 1990: Iraq invades Kuwait. The U.S. seizes the moment to assert its hegemony in the post-Soviet world and strengthen its grip on the Persian Gulf: the U.S. condemns Iraq, rejects a diplomatic settlement, imposes sanctions, and prepares for an all-out military assault on Iraq.

January 16, 1991: After a 6-month military buildup, the U.S.-led coalition launches "Operation Desert Storm." For the next 42 days, U.S. and allied planes pound Iraq, dropping 88,000 tons of bombs, systematically targeting and largely destroying its electrical and water systems. On February 22, 1991, the U.S. coalition begins its 100-hour ground war. Heavily armed U.S. units drive deep into southern Iraq. Overall, 100,000 to 200,000 Iraqis are killed during the war.

Spring 1991: Shi'ites in the south and Kurds in the north rise up against Hussein's regime in Iraq. The U.S., after encouraging these uprisings during the war, now fears turmoil and instability in the region and refuses to support the rebels. The U.S. denies the rebels access to captured Iraqi weapons and allows Iraqi helicopters to attack them.

1991: Iraq withdraws from Kuwait and agrees to a UN-brokered cease-fire, but the U.S. and Britain insist that devastating sanctions be maintained. The U.S. declares large parts of north and south Iraq "no-fly" zones for Iraqi aircraft.

1991-present: U.S. military deployments continue after the war, with 17,000 to 24,000 U.S. troops in the Persian Gulf region at any given time. (CSM)

1992: U.S. Marines land near Mogadishu, Somalia, supposedly to ensure humanitarian relief and "restore order." But the U.S. also plans to remove the dominant warlord, Mohammed Aidid, and install a more pro-U.S. regime. In June 1983, after numerous gun battles with Aidid forces, U.S. helicopters strafe Aidid supporters, killing scores. In October, when U.S. forces attempt to kidnap two Aidid lieutenants, a fierce gunbattle breaks out. Five U.S. helicopters are shot down, 18 U.S. soldiers killed and 73 wounded, while 500 to 1000 Somalians are killed and many more injured.

March 1992: U.S. Defense Department drafts new, post-Soviet "Defense Planning Guidance" paper stating, "In the Middle East and Southwest Asia, our overall objective is to remain the predominant outside power in the region and preserve U.S. and Western access to the region's oil."

1993: U.S. brokers a "peace" agreement between Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization at Oslo, Norway. The agreement strengthens Israel and U.S. domination, while leaving Palestinians a small part of their historic homeland, broken up into isolated pieces surrounded by Israel. No provisions are made for the return of the four million Palestinian refugees living outside of Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza.

1993: U.S. launches missile attack on Iraq, claiming self-defense against an alleged assassination attempt on former president Bush two months earlier.

1995: The U.S. imposes oil and trade sanctions against Iran, reinforcing sanctions in effect since 1979, for alleged sponsorship of 'terrorism', seeking to acquire nuclear arms and hostility to the Middle East process. (BBC, CSM)

1995: With U.S. backing, Turkey launches a major military offensive, involving some 35,000 Turkish troops, against the Kurds in northern Iraq.

1998: Congress passes the "Iraq Liberation Act," giving nearly $100 million to groups attempting to overthrow the Hussein regime.

August 1998: Claiming retaliation for attacks on U.S. embassies in Tanzania and Kenya, President Clinton sends 75 cruise missiles pounding into rural Afghanistan --supposedly targeting Osama Bin Laden. The U.S. also destroys a factory producing half of Sudan's pharmaceutical supply, claiming the factory is involved in chemical warfare. The U.S. later acknowledges there is no evidence for the chemical warfare charge.

December 16-19, 1998: The U.S. and Britain launch "Operation Desert Fox," a bombing campaign supposedly aimed at destroying Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs. For most of the next year, U.S. and British planes strike Iraq every day with missiles. (BBC)

October 1999: The U.S. Department of Defense shifts command of its forces in Central Asia from the Pacific Command to the Central Command, underlining the heightened importance of the region, which includes vast oil reserves in and around the Caspian Sea.

January 2001: Tenth anniversary of the U.S. war on Iraq: sanctions are still in place and the UN estimates that 4,500 children are dying per month from disease and malnutrition as a result. The U.S. planes, which have flown over 280,000 sorties in Iraq over the past decade, continue to attack from the air. In the past two years, over 300 Iraqis have been killed in these bombings.

Zéér interessant overzicht


En zo ging het voort en het duurt nog altijd maar

de VS moeit zich NIET in Arab Arab relaties

tenzij er natuurlijk 'iets' tussenkomt.

Wat?

Iets als dit bvb:

Hier op CNN, in 2003 al:

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door CNN

Iraq has 112.5 billion barrels in proven reserves, the second-largest in the world, and possibly 200 billion barrels more in unexplored regions, according to some estimates.

And Iraq's oil also is more easily accessible than in some regions of the world.
http://money.cnn.com/2003/04/16/news...imer/index.htm

CRS Report for Congress
Updated April 13, 2005
Iraq Oil: Reserves, Production, and
Potential Revenues
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RS21626.pdf

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Safehaven.com

Iraq Oil Output to Rival Saudi Arabia
Iraq - behind Saudi Arabia and Iran - has the world's third largest proven oil reserves, with potentially more remaining to be found.

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door The Times

May 20, 2008
Iraq could have largest oil reserves in the world
Playing for Iraq's jackpot
Nation sits on a virtual ocean of black gold

Iraq dramatically increased the official size of its oil reserves yesterday after new data suggested that they could exceed Saudi Arabia’s and be the largest in the world.

The Iraqi Deputy Prime Minister told The Times that new exploration showed that his country has the world’s largest proven oil reserves, with as much as 350 billion barrels. The figure is triple the country’s present proven reserves and exceeds that of Saudi Arabia’s estimated 264 billion barrels of oil.
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle3964957.ece

Indien CNN het grote nieuws over Irak had in 2003 en het Congress kreeg het maar in 2005, wanneer wisten de oliemaatschappijen en de CIA het dan?


D�*n worden Arab-Arab relations plots wél een Amerikaans probleem, zeker indien die ¤¤¤ Saddam dan nog bereid is, euros te aanvaarden ipv US$

D�*n moet die CIA-pion maar opgeofferd worden en met hem 1.500.000 Irakezen.

Wat een idee toch ook, al die olie onder zulk land te steken? Straks kopen de Chinezen die nog.


En Afghanistan?

Daarvan is 't al lang geweten dat die op een massa zitten:

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Time Magazine in 1937

Afghanistan suddenly disclosed "probably the greatest untapped oil reserves in the world," as the Associated Press reported from London,
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...7287-1,00.html

Dat werd wel bijgesteld in 2002:

Afghanistan: The Route to Riches
The U.S. government believes that total oil reserves could be 270 billion barrels. Total gas reserves could be 576 trillion cubic feet.
...
http://www.rethinkingschools.org/spe.../rich162.shtml

D�*n moeten we dat land toch beschaving brengen, zeg nu zelf.

terloops,
Nine Eleven, daar wist men +NIETS van in Afghanistan:

KABUL | Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:36am EST

KABUL (Reuters) - Afghans in two crucial southern provinces are almost completely unaware of the September 11 attacks on the United States and don't know they precipitated the foreign intervention now in its 10th year, a new report showed on Friday.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20101119/...anistan_report
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6AI2U720101119
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40273302/
http://www.aolnews.com/surge-desk/ar...tacks/19725726
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/t/stud...390799873.html
http://911blogger.com/news/2010-11-1...ever-heard-911

Het zal je maar gebeuren, ongeletterd, in één van de achterlijkste landen ter wereld en dan gebombardeerd worden met F-16's en drones uit alle landen van de NAVO, zonder zelfs te weten waarom.

"Voor je eigen goed" zal Dixie denken, de US regeringen vertelden ons dat toch en waarom zouden die er nu over liegen?

Hoe heet deze thread nu ook weer?

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door grimbergen

Moslims zijn weer eens trots op hun oorlogsdaden in Europa

Terloops, onder Iran zit er ook een massa olie.
Onder de Venezolaanse en Cubaanse wateren ook.
En Brazilië ook hoorde ik recent.
Tip:
Aandelen in militaire industrie kopen: die hebben toekomst.

[Dixie]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Johan Bollen

Niet echt iets om trots op te zijn. Het 'westen' is veel dodelijker in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Irak. En als Israël beslist om nog eens wat Palestijnen uit te moorden zijn ze ook veel dodelijker. Tegenover de westerse gesofisticeerde wapens kunnen islamterroristen enkel wat zelfmoordcommandos zetten op dit moment. Nu ja, het is logisch dat iedereen vecht met de wapens die hij heeft. Beter zou natuurlijk zijn die conflicten eens te pogen op lossen.

totale leugens het westen kreeg reeds zelfmoord of bomaanslagen lang voor het zich ging mengen in afghanistan en irak (niet alleen het westen trouwens ook westerse doelen in bvb afrika) met als klap op de vuurpijl 9/11
het saddamregime doodde miljoenen mensen (oa door 2 oorlogen op buurlanden)
het talibanregime kwam aan de macht door jarenlange burgeroorlog en eens aan de macht zette het trainingskampen voor terroristen op en gaf refuse aan die zelfde terroristen
het aandeel van de VS in pakistan is helemaal lachwekkend, hier betreft het gevechten in het grens gebied met afghanistan en dus ook soms in pakistan zelf maar het merendeel van de gevechten zijn tussen het pakistaanse leger en de taliban

trouwens het grootste deel van de aanslagen de laatste tijd betreft de strijd tss soennieten en shiieten (een strijd die al honderden jaren duurt) ook de schuld van 'het westen' zeker (lees VS)

[maddox]

Mare, wat met Rambo III dan, daar waren de talibanezen de goeien nietwaar?

[Dixie]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door atmosphere

Summer 1979: U.S. begins arming and organizing Islamic fundamentalist "Mujahideen" in Afghanistan. National Security Advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski writes, "This aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention," drawing the Soviets into an Afghan quagmire. Over the next decade the U.S. alone passed more than $3 billion in arms and aid to the Mujahideen, with another $3 billion provided by the U.S. ally Saudi Arabia.
December 1979: Soviet troops invade Afghanistan--which the U.S. rulers considered a "buffer state" between the Soviet Union to the north and the strategically important states of Iran and Pakistan to the south--overthrowing the Amin government and installing a more pro-Soviet regime.
1989: The last Soviet troops leave Afghanistan. The war, fueled by U.S.-Soviet rivalry, has torn Afghanistan apart, killing more than one million Afghans and forcing one-third of the population to flee into refugee camps. More than 15,000 Soviet soldiers die in the war.August 1998: Claiming retaliation for attacks on U.S. embassies in Tanzania and Kenya, President Clinton sends 75 cruise missiles pounding into rural Afghanistan --supposedly targeting Osama Bin Laden. The U.S. also destroys a factory producing half of Sudan's pharmaceutical supply, claiming the factory is involved in chemical warfare. The U.S. later acknowledges there is no evidence for the chemical warfare charge.

yep tuurlijk mag ieder ander land andere landen binnenvallen zolang het maar niet de VS is...het betreft hier ook geen arab vs arab confrontatie
de VS ondersteunden zowaar de EIGEN bevolking tegen een buitenlandse bezettingsmacht... men had beter de russen laten doen was er misschien nooit de taliban of AQ geweest dus volgens Atmos moesten de Afghanen van toen maar onder het juk blijven van de grote beer

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door atmosphere

November 4, 1979: Islamic militants, backed by the Khomeini regime, seize the U.S. embassy in Teheran and demand the U.S. return the Shah to Iran for trial. The Embassy and 52 U.S. personnel are held for 444 days; this international embarrassment prompts new U.S. actions against Iran--including an abortive rescue attempt.Summer 1980: As the Carter administration tries to bully Iran into surrendering the U.S. hostages, supporters of presidential candidate Ronald Reagan cut a secret deal with the Islamic Republic: promising that the Reagan administration will allow Israel to ship arms to Iran if Iran continues to hold the hostages during the coming presidential campaign to cripple Carter's campaign for re-election. (Gary Sick)
From the fall of 1981 through the winter of 1982, forces led by the Union of Iranian Communists, Sarbederan, mount an historic resistance to the Islamic Republic; the uprising at Amol at the end of January 1982 is brutally crushed by the forces of the Islamic Republic.

nope geen arab - arab inmenging wel een agressieve daad van de islamisten om mensen te gijzelen

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door atmosphere

1980: U.S. begins organizing a "Rapid Deployment Force," increasing its naval presence and pre-positioning military equipment and supplies. It also steps up aid to reactionary client states such as Turkey, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. On September 12, Turkey's military seizes power and unleashes a brutal clampdown on revolutionaries and Kurds struggling for liberation in order to "stabilize" the country as a key U.S. ally.1995: With U.S. backing, Turkey launches a major military offensive, involving some 35,000 Turkish troops, against the Kurds in northern Iraq.

weer geen arab vs arab inmenging enkel steun aan bevriende naties ... Alsof het turkse leger VS steun nodig had om de koerden aan te vallen

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door atmosphere

September 22, 1980: Iraq invades Iran with tacit U.S. support, starting a bloody eight-year war. The U.S. supports both sides in the war providing arms to Iran and money, intelligence and political support to Iraq in order to prolong the war and weaken both sides, while trying to draw both countries into the U.S. orbit. 1981: The Reagan administration secretly encourages Israel and other allies, such as South Korea and Turkey, to ship hundreds of millions of U.S.-made arms to Iran despite a ban on the shipment of U.S.-made weapons.Spring 1983: The U.S. provides the Islamic Republic of Iran with a list of Soviet agents.
1984: U.S. shoots down two Iranian jets over Persian Gulf.
1985-1986: The U.S. secretly ships weapons to Iran, including 1,000 TOW anti-tank missiles, Hawk missile parts, and Hawk radars. The weapons are exchanged for U.S. hostages in Lebanon, and in hopes of increased U.S. leverage in Iran. The secret plot collapses when it is publicly revealed on November 3, 1986, by the Lebanese magazine, Al-Shiraa. (The Chronology)
1987: The U.S. Navy is dispatched to the Persian Gulf to prevent Iran from cutting off Iraq's oil shipments. During these patrols, a U.S. ship shoots down an Iranian civilian airliner, killing all 290 onboard.

irak viel iran binnen toen was er nog een sprake van steun van de VS steun die in het niets verviel van de steun die irak van de SU,Frankrijk,SA en de andere golfstaten kreeg verder steunden nog tientallen andere landen 1 of beide partijen

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door atmosphere

1981: U.S. holds military maneuvers off the coast of Libya to bully the Qaddafi government. When a Libyan plane fires a missile at U.S. planes penetrating Libyan airspace, two Libyan planes are shot down.1986: When a bomb goes off in a Berlin nightclub and kills two Americans, the U.S. blames Libya's Qaddafi. U.S. bombers strike Libyan military facilities, residential areas of Tripoli and Benghazi, and Qaddafi's house, killing 101 people, including Qaddafi's adopted daughter.

bron + was dit voor of na de terroristische aanslag van lockerbie

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door atmosphere

1982: After receiving a "green light" from the U.S., Israel invades Lebanon to crush Palestinian and other anti-U.S. and anti-Israeli forces. Over 20,000 Lebanese and Palestinians are killed, and Israel seizes southern Lebanon, holding it until 2000.
September 14, 1982: Lebanon's pro-U.S. President-elect, Bashir al-Jumayyil, is assassinated. The following day, Israeli forces occupy West Beirut, and from 16 to 18 September, the Phalangist militia, with the support of Israel's military under now-Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, move into the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps and barbarically massacre over 1,000 unarmed Palestinian men, women, and children.
1983: U.S. sends troops to Lebanon, supposedly as part of a multinational "peace-keeping" operation but in reality to protect U.S. interests, including Israel's occupation forces. U.S. troops are withdrawn after a suicide bomber destroys a U.S. Marine barracks.

geen arab vs arab inmenging

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door atmosphere

1983: CIA helps murder Gen. Ahmed Dlimi, a prominent Moroccan Army commander who seeks to overthrow the pro-U.S. Moroccan monarchy.

dat jij liever dictaturen aan de macht ziet ten koste van VS friendly word bij deze direct duidelijk

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door atmosphere

1985: U.S. attempts to assassinate Sheikh Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah, a Lebanese Shiite leader. 80 people are killed in the unsuccessful attempt. (Blum)

spiritual mentor" of Hezbollah inderdaad spijtig van de onschuldigen, hoeveel onschuldigen heeft deze mentor op zijn conto?!

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door atmosphere

1988: The Iraqi regime launches mass poison-gas attacks on Kurds, killing thousands and bulldozing many villages. The U.S. responds by increasing its support for the Iraqi regime.
July 1988: A cease-fire ends the Iran-Iraq war with neither side victorious. Over 1 million Iranians and Iraqis are killed during the 8-year war.

de hulp werd verhoogd omdat irak niet zou verliezen maar na de gasaanvallen viel de steun voor saddam geheel weg

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door atmosphere

July 1990: April Glaspie, U.S. Ambassador to Iraq, meets with Saddam Hussein, who threatens military action against Kuwait for overproducing its oil quota, slant drilling for oil in Iraqi territory, and encroaching on Iraqi territory--seriously harming war weakened Iraq. Glaspie replies, "We have no opinion on the Arab- Arab conflicts, like your border disagreement with Kuwait."
August 1990: Iraq invades Kuwait. The U.S. seizes the moment to assert its hegemony in the post-Soviet world and strengthen its grip on the Persian Gulf: the U.S. condemns Iraq, rejects a diplomatic settlement, imposes sanctions, and prepares for an all-out military assault on Iraq.
January 16, 1991: After a 6-month military buildup, the U.S.-led coalition launches "Operation Desert Storm." For the next 42 days, U.S. and allied planes pound Iraq, dropping 88,000 tons of bombs, systematically targeting and largely destroying its electrical and water systems. On February 22, 1991, the U.S. coalition begins its 100-hour ground war. Heavily armed U.S. units drive deep into southern Iraq. Overall, 100,000 to 200,000 Iraqis are killed during the war.Spring 1991: Shi'ites in the south and Kurds in the north rise up against Hussein's regime in Iraq. The U.S., after encouraging these uprisings during the war, now fears turmoil and instability in the region and refuses to support the rebels. The U.S. denies the rebels access to captured Iraqi weapons and allows Iraqi helicopters to attack them.
1991: Iraq withdraws from Kuwait and agrees to a UN-brokered cease-fire, but the U.S. and Britain insist that devastating sanctions be maintained. The U.S. declares large parts of north and south Iraq "no-fly" zones for Iraqi aircraft.
1991-present: U.S. military deployments continue after the war, with 17,000 to 24,000 U.S. troops in the Persian Gulf region at any given time. (CSM)

normaals Saddam viel weer een buurland aan ditmaal gecounterd door de VN
en inderdaad de VN had toen korte metten met Saddam moeten maken

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door atmosphere

1992: U.S. Marines land near Mogadishu, Somalia, supposedly to ensure humanitarian relief and "restore order." But the U.S. also plans to remove the dominant warlord, Mohammed Aidid, and install a more pro-U.S. regime. In June 1983, after numerous gun battles with Aidid forces, U.S. helicopters strafe Aidid supporters, killing scores. In October, when U.S. forces attempt to kidnap two Aidid lieutenants, a fierce gunbattle breaks out. Five U.S. helicopters are shot down, 18 U.S. soldiers killed and 73 wounded, while 500 to 1000 Somalians are killed and many more injured.

jij weet je regimes die je steunt wel te kiezen
best is deze regimes gewoon te laten doen dwz dan ook geen economische hulp natuurlijk spijtig voor de bevolking maar zij 'kiezen' hun leiders

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door atmosphere

1998: Congress passes the "Iraq Liberation Act," giving nearly $100 million to groups attempting to overthrow the Hussein regime.

weer niet goed steun men de oppositie van een dictator

[Dixie]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door atmosphere

Heerlijk hoe u de veel intensievere bemoeinis van de VS probeerd weg te schoffelen met u feitje over Russische wapens .

Geen enkel ander land heeft saddam zo intensief gesteund als de VS, steun die veel verder ging als wapenverkoop .

je VS gebash is hilarisch nu probeer je de geschiedenis nog wat te twisten ook
FACTS de SU en Frankrijk stuurden meer wapens dan de VS
FACTS de Golfstaten stuurden meer geld dan de VS
FACTS buiten deze landen steunden nog tientallen andere landen irak en/of iran

[filosoof]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Dixie

je VS gebash is hilarisch nu probeer je de geschiedenis nog wat te twisten ook
FACTS de SU en Frankrijk stuurden meer wapens dan de VS
FACTS de Golfstaten stuurden meer geld dan de VS
FACTS buiten deze landen steunden nog tientallen andere landen irak en/of iran

FACTS, de VS waren en zijn op één ding uit: eigenbelang: controle over de oliekranen van de wereld en kijken niet hoeveel burgers dan het slachtoffer worden.