De grote 9/11 topic

[Dixie]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Micele

Toch nog wat, sorry, "natrappen" van mij, maar wel uit nieuwsgierigheid wegens je laatste post.

In onze zeer korte discussie "molten steel" wacht ik nog altijd op jouw bewijs dat gesmolten aluminium (zilverkleur) - wel hoog uit de WTC torens stromend, zoals op onderstaande foto - ook een oranjekleur kan hebben.
(met jouw link-foto van molten steel ben je door de mand gevallen... namelijk deze: http://forum.politics.be/showpost.ph...ostcount=16085 )

The presence of molten steel at the WTC site is a well established fact. Molten steel was seen flowing from the tower even before the collapse:




Die "molten steel was seen flowing from the tower even before the collapse" heeft wel plaatsgevonden...

Na zeker op een 20-tal vragen van jou geantwoord te hebben, durf je dan nog zoiets te posten. Of moet ik al mijn antwoorden op jouw vragen eens citeren ?

Duidelijk eenrichtsverkeer hier betreft gemeende en degelijke antwoorden.
Maar de bedoeling achter uw vragenspelletjes weet ik wel.

heel simpel een mix van alluminium en andere stoffen gaven deze kleur...

[Micele]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Dixie

heel simpel een mix van alluminium en andere stoffen gaven deze kleur...

Ik wil het wetenschappelijk bewijs Dixie, geen fantasietjes.

Stelling vooraf : hoe kunnen vaste aluminium panelen of vaste aluminium vliegtuigonderdelen zich mixen met andere vaste stoffen die hetzelfde smeltpunt hebben (dus tegelijkertijd smelten). Dus bvb. verf op een aluminium panel of vliegtuigdeel gaat veel eerder verschroeien, ook andere stoffen die veel eerder verbranden als te smelten.

Dus met deze onduidelijke However... tapijten-houten-kunststof-blödsinn "debunking" hoef je ook niet af te komen:

"NIST concluded that the source of the molten material was aluminum alloys from the aircraft, since these are known to melt between 475 degrees Celsius and 640 degrees Celsius (depending on the particular alloy), well below the expected temperatures (about 1,000 degrees Celsius) in the vicinity of the fires. Aluminum is not expected to ignite at normal fire temperatures and there is no visual indication that the material flowing from the tower was burning.

Pure liquid aluminum would be expected to appear silvery. However, the molten metal was very likely mixed with large amounts of hot, partially burned, solid organic materials (e.g., furniture, carpets, partitions and computers) which can display an orange glow, much like logs burning in a fireplace. The apparent color also would have been affected by slag formation on the surface."

De debunkers-debunkers-reactie hierop is - met mijn technische achtergrond hierover - véél geloofwaardiger voor mij want ze refereren en leggen het wetenschappelijk uit. Het is de smeltkleur die de temperatuur bepaald!
Lees maar eens alles:

http://911debunkers.blogspot.com/200...flow-from.html
Thursday, February 12, 2009

Debunking Molten Aluminium Flow From South Tower

Debunkers such as RKOWENS and disinformationist Judy Wood have tried to discredit the truth movement with lies or misunderstandings on basic laws of physics...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhHzM...e=channel_page

I think we all can agree that the material flowing from the south tower has a orange-yellow appearance.

This indicates a temperature of 980C - 1050C leaning on the heavy side as it looks more yellow than orange.



This is due to two laws of physics

"Emissivity—This is a dimensionless constant, the ratio of the energy radiated by a material to the energy radiated by a black body at the same temperature. This is the total energy across the emission spectrum. Emissivity is a number less than or equal to 1."

"Planck’s Law gives the spectral radiance of electromagnetic radiation of a black body. This is a function of frequency (or, equivalently, wavelength) and temperature. This law embodies the concept that the radiated spectrum as a function of frequency at a given temperature is the same shape for all radiating materials. The only factor affecting the radiated spectrum that depends on the nature of the material is emissivity, a constant, independent of frequency."
Some claim that its possible for the material flowing from the south tower to be aluminium, they claim the aluminium is heated to 980c thus giving it a orange yellow colour.

Aluminium melts at 660C at which temperature is looks silvery

The problem with concluding that the liquid flowing from the tower’s 82nd floor could have been aluminum is that the liquid in the tower was not confined in a container so that more heat could be applied to raise the temperature of the liquid above its melting point. Instead, as soon as the metal liquefied it flowed away from the heat source under the force of gravity. Therefore, the color of the liquid flowing from the 82nd floor was at approximately the melting point of the metal. And therefore, it was molten iron.

Here is a video example of aluminium being heated in a container to 980c or 1800 F...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30OVA...e=channel_page

As you can see the aluminium cools rapidly to a silvery colour, as metals are a great conductor of heat.

The molten material flowing from the south tower even remains orange yellow during its whole descent.

Ironically for debunkers NIST knows this and agrees that the molten material is not pure liquid aluminium, and have hypothesised a different scenario to make the aluminium orange yellow...

"11. Why do some photographs show a yellow stream of molten metal pouring down the side of WTC2 that NIST claims was aluminum from the crashed plane although aluminum burns with a white glow?
NIST reported (NCSTAR 1-5A) that just before 9:52 a.m., a bright spot appeared at the top of a window on the 80th floor of WTC 2, four windows removed from the east edge on the north face, followed by the flow of a glowing liquid. This flow lasted approximately four seconds before subsiding. Many such liquid flows were observed from near this location in the seven minutes leading up to the collapse of this tower. There is no evidence of similar molten liquid pouring out from another location in WTC 2 or from anywhere within WTC 1.
Photographs, and NIST simulations of the aircraft impact, show large piles of debris in the 80th and 81st floors of WTC 2 near the site where the glowing liquid eventually appeared. Much of this debris came from the aircraft itself and from the office furnishings that the aircraft pushed forward as it tunneled to this far end of the building. Large fires developed on these piles shortly after the aircraft impact and continued to burn in the area until the tower collapsed.
NIST concluded that the source of the molten material was aluminum alloys from the aircraft, since these are known to melt between 475 degrees Celsius and 640 degrees Celsius (depending on the particular alloy), well below the expected temperatures (about 1,000 degrees Celsius) in the vicinity of the fires. Aluminum is not expected to ignite at normal fire temperatures and there is no visual indication that the material flowing from the tower was burning.
Pure liquid aluminum would be expected to appear silvery. However, the molten metal was very likely mixed with large amounts of hot, partially burned, solid organic materials (e.g., furniture, carpets, partitions and computers) which can display an orange glow, much like logs burning in a fireplace. The apparent color also would have been affected by slag formation on the surface."


http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm

However as Dr. Jones demonstrated by experiment that organic material floats on the liquid aluminum and burns up (oxidizes). Further, the liquid aluminum in this experiment was never heated to the point where it no longer appeared silvery. This experiment gave the expected result. Organic material would not change the color vs temperature behavior of aluminum.
The conclusion of this analysis is inescapable. The liquid metal was molten iron...

If any debunkers can show how to make aluminium orange yellow while getting it to flow from a building. Then officially this will be debunked.

Its not to hard to find aluminium it can be readily bought in the form of soda cans.

Good luck to you debunkers!

[Dixie]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Micele

Ik wil het wetenschappelijk bewijs Dixie, geen fantasietjes.

waarom zit je dan op trutherssite's

The color means nothing. The color can be misleading, and because it can be misleading, it means nothing as evidence. This is not aluminum in a foundry which hasn't mixed with anything. This is a cocktail of whatever was on the plane and in the towers which happens to come together. It wouldn't be unreasonable to suspect Aluminum and some other properties has changed its color.

The material flowing out the window that was glowing wasn't necessarily due to black body radiation but could have been due to spectra generated by chemical reactions in various materials in the melt that may have interacted with each other. A third factor that affects color would be reflection of ambient light, which isn't black body radiation and isn't spectra due to chemical reactions.

http://outreach.atnf.csiro.au/educat...oscopyhow.html

[atmosphere]

Vergeten word dat er in vliegtuigen ook magnesium wordt verwerkt !

en precies daar waar de brand het hevigst was zie dat materiaal vallen ! toeval ? of heeft het vallende materiaal niets met de brand daar te maken?

overigens zouden druppels gesmolten staal ook snel afkoelen en niet meer opgloeien tijdens hun val . Er is duidelijk sprake van met elkaar reagerende( of met zuurstof uit lucht) stoffen.

[Micele]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Dixie

waarom zit je dan op trutherssite's

The color means nothing. The color can be misleading, and because it can be misleading, it means nothing as evidence. This is not aluminum in a foundry which hasn't mixed with anything. This is a cocktail of whatever was on the plane and in the towers which happens to come together. It wouldn't be unreasonable to suspect Aluminum and some other properties has changed its color.

The material flowing out the window that was glowing wasn't necessarily due to black body radiation but could have been due to spectra generated by chemical reactions in various materials in the melt that may have interacted with each other. A third factor that affects color would be reflection of ambient light, which isn't black body radiation and isn't spectra due to chemical reactions.

http://outreach.atnf.csiro.au/educat...oscopyhow.html

Was je eerste link te voorbarig ?

En dank U voor de gedeeltelijke bevestiging van de "trutherssite", "door jou genoemd".

However as Dr. Jones demonstrated by experiment that organic material floats on the liquid aluminum and burns up (oxidizes).

Further, the liquid aluminum in this experiment was never heated to the point where it no longer appeared silvery. This experiment gave the expected result. Organic material would not change the color vs temperature behavior of aluminum.
The conclusion of this analysis is inescapable. The liquid metal was molten iron...

[atmosphere]

Raar dat Jones dan geen expirimenten heeft gedaan met gesmolten staal, terwijl hij juist beweert dat dit het was. Omgekeerde bewijsvoering is dit , zie je dat dan niet ?

Wanneer daar werkelijk themiet is afgegaan , waar is dan het helse felle witte licht van de thermiet reactie die bij de bron bovenin plaats had moeten vinden?

Als er iets goed zichtbaar is dan is het wel een thermiet reactie !!!!

Als je even verder denkt aan de uitvoerbaarheid van de CD theorie word heel snelk duidelijk dat het hier gaat om zeer vergezochte onmogelijke onzin.

[Micele]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door atmosphere

Vergeten word dat er in vliegtuigen ook magnesium wordt verwerkt !

En dan ? Welke kleur heeft gesmolten magnesium ?
Of welke kleur heeft een aluminium-magnesium legering ?

blijft WIT.

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Magnesium

[Dixie]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Micele

Was je eerste link te voorbarig ?

dit komt van dezelfde link...

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Micele

En dank U voor de gedeeltelijke bevestiging van de "trutherssite", "door jou genoemd".

niets bevestiging geen molten steel maar molten aluminium en andere stoffen...

[Micele]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Dixie

maar molten aluminium en andere stoffen...

Onzin.

[Dixie]

zoveel onzin dan die foto's waardat brandweermannen boven die poelen van molten steel staan volgens de truthers

[Micele]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Dixie

zoveel onzin dan die foto's waardat brandweermannen boven die poelen van molten steel staan volgens de truthers

Natuurlijk is het gesmolten staal, je bent toch niet zo stom te denken dat je met een grijper vloeibaar aluminium kunt omhoogtillen waarvan een deel nog vast is ?http://www.luogocomune.net/site/htmp.../therma3bo.jpg

En een hoop getuigen:

http://www.historycommons.org/contex...201moltenmetal

September 12, 2001-February 2002: Witnesses See Molten Metal in the Remains at Ground Zero



A chunk of hot metal being removed from the North Tower rubble about eight weeks after 9/11. [Source: Frank Silecchia]

In the weeks and months after 9/11, numerous individuals report seeing molten metal in the remains of the World Trade Center:

Ken Holden, who is involved with the organizing of demolition, excavation and debris removal operations at Ground Zero, later will tell the 9/11 Commission, “Underground, it was still so hot that molten metal dripped down the sides of the wall from [WTC] Building 6.” [9/11 Commission, 4/1/2003]

William Langewiesche, the only journalist to have unrestricted access to Ground Zero during the cleanup operation, describes, “in the early days, the streams of molten metal that leaked from the hot cores and flowed down broken walls inside the foundation hole.” [Langewiesche, 2002, pp. 32]

Leslie Robertson, one of the structural engineers responsible for the design of the WTC, describes fires still burning and molten steel still running 21 days after the attacks. [SEAU News, 10/2001 ]

Alison Geyh, who heads a team of scientists studying the potential health effects of 9/11, reports: “Fires are still actively burning and the smoke is very intense. In some pockets now being uncovered, they are finding molten steel.” [Johns Hopkins Public Health Magazine, 2001]

Ron Burger, a public health advisor who arrives at Ground Zero on September 12, says that “feeling the heat” and “seeing the molten steel” there reminds him of a volcano. [National Environmental Health Association, 9/2003, pp. 40 ]

Paramedic Lee Turner arrives at the World Trade Center site on September 12 as a member of a federal urban search and rescue squad. While at Ground Zero, he goes “down crumpled stairwells to the subway, five levels below ground.” There he reportedly sees, “in the darkness a distant, pinkish glow—molten metal dripping from a beam.” [US News and World Report, 9/12/2002]

According to a member of New York Air National Guard’s 109th Air Wing, who is at Ground Zero from September 22 to October 6: “One fireman told us that there was still molten steel at the heart of the towers’ remains. Firemen sprayed water to cool the debris down but the heat remained intense enough at the surface to melt their boots.” [National Guard Magazine, 12/2001]

New York firefighters recall “heat so intense they encountered rivers of molten steel.” [New York Post, 3/3/2004]

As late as five months after the attacks, in February 2002, firefighter Joe O’Toole sees a steel beam being lifted from deep underground at Ground Zero, which, he says, “was dripping from the molten steel.” [Knight Ridder, 5/29/2002]

Steven E. Jones, a physics professor from Utah, later will claim this molten metal is “direct evidence for the use of high-temperature explosives, such as thermite,” used to deliberately bring down the WTC towers. [MSNBC, 11/16/2005] He will say that without explosives, a falling building would have “insufficient directed energy to result in melting of large quantities of metal.” [Deseret Morning News, 11/10/2005] There is no mention whatsoever of the molten metal in the official reports by FEMA, NIST, or the 9/11 Commission. [Federal Emergency Management Agency, 5/1/2002; 9/11 Commission, 7/24/2004; National Institute of Standards and Technology, 9/2005 ] But Dr. Frank Gayle, who leads the steel forensics aspects of NIST’s investigation of the WTC collapses, is quoted as saying: “Your gut reaction would be the jet fuel is what made the fire so very intense, a lot of people figured that’s what melted the steel. Indeed it didn’t, the steel did not melt.” [ABC News 7 (New York), 2/7/2004] As well as the reports of molten metal, data collected by NASA in the days after 9/11 finds dozens of “hot spots” (some over 1,300 degrees) at Ground Zero (see September 16-23, 2001).
Entity Tags: Ken Holden, Frank Gayle, Lee Turner, Leslie Robertson, Ron Burger, Steven E. Jones, Alison Geyh, World Trade Center, William Langewiesche, Joe O’Toole
Timeline Tags: Complete 911 Timeline, 9/11 Timeline

[atmosphere]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Micele

En dan ? Welke kleur heeft gesmolten magnesium ?
Of welke kleur heeft een aluminium-magnesium legering ?

blijft WIT.

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Magnesium

Magnesium kan verbranden in gewone vlammen en blijft dan doorbranden , het kan hebben bijgedragen aan de reatie waar ik eerder over sprak .

Gesmolten staal is ook niet fel oranje geel wanneer je het in zonlicht ziet !!

[Micele]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door atmosphere

Magnesium kan verbranden in gewone vlammen en blijft dan doorbranden , het kan hebben bijgedragen aan de reatie waar ik eerder over sprak .

Gesmolten staal is ook niet fel oranje geel wanneer je het in zonlicht ziet !!

Hopeloos ...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...4740145858863#

Wetenschappelijk bewezen dat het staal is, door te experimenteren met aluminium met alle soorten bijgevoegde stoffen:
De video´s staan onderaan.

Experiments to test NIST "orange glow" hypothesis...
by Steven E. Jones, August 31, 2006

What I did is an experiment today, with two colleagues here, to test the NIST proclamation:

"NIST concluded that the source of the molten material [observed flowing out of WTC2 before its collapse] was aluminum alloys from the aircraft, since these are known to melt between 475 degrees Celsius and 640 degrees Celsius (depending on the particular alloy), well below the expected temperatures (about 1,000 degrees Celsius) in the vicinity of the fires. Aluminum is not expected to ignite at normal fire temperatures and there is no visual indication that the material flowing from the tower was burning.

"Pure liquid aluminum would be expected to appear silvery. However, the molten metal was very likely mixed with large amounts of hot, partially burned, solid organic materials (e.g., furniture, carpets, partitions and computers) which can display an orange glow, much like logs burning in a fireplace. The apparent color also would have been affected by slag formation on the surface."

NIST says that flowing aluminum with partially burned organic materials mixed in, "can display an orange glow." But will it really do this? I decided to do an experiment to find out.

We melted aluminum in a steel pan using an oxy-acetylene torch.

Then we added plastic shavings -- which immediately burned with a dark smoke, as the plastic floated on top of the hot molten aluminum. Next, we added wood chips (pine, oak and compressed fiber board chips) to the liquid aluminum. Again, we had fire and smoke, and again, the hydrocarbons floated on top as they burned. We poured out the aluminum and all three of us observed that it appeared silvery, not orange! We took photos and videos, so we will have the recorded evidence as these are processed. (I have now attached two videos showing clearly the silvery appearance of the flowing aluminum.) Of course, we saw a few burning embers, but this did not alter the silvery appearance of the flowing, falling aluminum.

We decided to repeat the experiment, with the same aluminum re-melted. This time when we added fresh wood chips to the hot molten aluminum, we poured the aluminum-wood concoction out while the fire was still burning. And as before, the wood floated on top of the liquid aluminum. While we could see embers of burning wood, we observed the bulk of the flowing aluminum to be silvery as always, as it falls through the air.

This is a key to understanding why the aluminum does not "glow orange" due to partially-burned organics "mixed" in (per NIST theory) - because they do NOT mix in! My colleague noted that it is like oil and water - organics and molten aluminum do not mix. The hydrocarbons float to the top, and there burn - and embers glow, yes, but just in spots. The organics clearly do NOT impart to the hot liquid aluminum an "orange glow" when it falls, when you actually do the experiment! (Refer to attached videos of our experiments.)

In the videos of the molten metal falling from WTC2 just prior to its collapse, it appears consistently orange, not just orange in spots and certainly not silvery. We conclude that the falling metal which poured out of WTC2 is NOT aluminum. Not even aluminum "mixed" with organics as NIST theorizes.

What is it? I have a bold hypothesis which still stands all our experimental tests to date, as described in my paper Why Indeed Did the WTC Buildings Collapse?.

NIST should do experiments to test their "wild" theories about what happened on 9/11/2001, if they want to learn the truth about it.

http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/L...uminum_011.mpg
http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/L...uminum_012.mpg

[atmosphere]

Gemolten aluminium :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8oFA...eature=related

[Micele]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door atmosphere

Gemolten aluminium :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8oFA...eature=related

Met de oranjeroodgloeiende schijn van het stalen vat op het zilverkleurig gesmolten aluminium, dank U voor het voorbeeld van uw hopeloosheid.

Bekijk en lees liever het proefondervindelijk experiment van een wetenschapper hierboven.

Ik citeer:

NIST says that flowing aluminum with partially burned organic materials mixed in, "can display an orange glow." But will it really do this? I decided to do an experiment to find out.

We melted aluminum in a steel pan using an oxy-acetylene torch.

Then we added plastic shavings -- which immediately burned with a dark smoke, as the plastic floated on top of the hot molten aluminum. Next, we added wood chips (pine, oak and compressed fiber board chips) to the liquid aluminum. Again, we had fire and smoke, and again, the hydrocarbons floated on top as they burned. We poured out the aluminum and all three of us observed that it appeared silvery, not orange! We took photos and videos, so we will have the recorded evidence as these are processed. (I have now attached two videos showing clearly the silvery appearance of the flowing aluminum.) Of course, we saw a few burning embers, but this did not alter the silvery appearance of the flowing, falling aluminum.

We decided to repeat the experiment, with the same aluminum re-melted. This time when we added fresh wood chips to the hot molten aluminum, we poured the aluminum-wood concoction out while the fire was still burning. And as before, the wood floated on top of the liquid aluminum. While we could see embers of burning wood, we observed the bulk of the flowing aluminum to be silvery as always, as it falls through the air.

This is a key to understanding why the aluminum does not "glow orange" due to partially-burned organics "mixed" in (per NIST theory) - because they do NOT mix in! My colleague noted that it is like oil and water - organics and molten aluminum do not mix. The hydrocarbons float to the top, and there burn - and embers glow, yes, but just in spots. The organics clearly do NOT impart to the hot liquid aluminum an "orange glow" when it falls, when you actually do the experiment! (Refer to attached videos of our experiments.)

In the videos of the molten metal falling from WTC2 just prior to its collapse, it appears consistently orange, not just orange in spots and certainly not silvery. We conclude that the falling metal which poured out of WTC2 is NOT aluminum. Not even aluminum "mixed" with organics as NIST theorizes.

What is it? I have a bold hypothesis which still stands all our experimental tests to date, as described in my paper Why Indeed Did the WTC Buildings Collapse?.

NIST should do experiments to test their "wild" theories about what happened on 9/11/2001, if they want to learn the truth about it.

[Micele]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door atmosphere

Gesmolten staal is ook niet fel oranje geel wanneer je het in zonlicht ziet !!

Die is voor in te kaderen.

Aangezien meer licht of zonlicht de kleuren verbleekt zou het gesmolten staal -dat neerdwarrelt langs de tower - in werkelijkheid nog meer orange zijn.


En zoals Dr Jones zegt was het ook niet gedeeltelijk oranje, maar constant oranje:
In the videos of the molten metal falling from WTC2 just prior to its collapse, it appears consistently orange, not just orange in spots and certainly not silvery.

Aluminium -of legering- zou tijdens het vallen veel sneller stollen en natuurlijk eentonig zilverkleurig zijn.

Anders, vandaag toch een spannende bergrit in de Tour gezien.

[Dixie]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Micele

Natuurlijk is het gesmolten staal, je bent toch niet zo stom te denken dat je met een grijper vloeibaar aluminium kunt omhoogtillen waarvan een deel nog vast is ?http://www.luogocomune.net/site/htmp.../therma3bo.jpg

hoe dom kan je zijn, ten eerste heb ik het niet over deze foto aangezien hier geen poel of molten (steel) aluminium of brandweerlieden te zien zijn
en ten tweede tuurlijk is het steel maar niet vloeibaar aangezien je het dan niet kunt omhoogtillen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhHzMttUKO0

hier de uitleg zodat een klein kind het kan begrijpen

[atmosphere]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Micele

Die is voor in te kaderen.

Aangezien meer licht of zonlicht de kleuren verbleekt zou het gesmolten staal -dat neerdwarrelt langs de tower - in werkelijkheid nog meer orange zijn.

Zeer zeker niet !! Zo wordt ook een vlam in zonlicht slecht zichtbaar of bijna onzichtbaar !! en niet nog meer oranje !

En zoals Dr Jones zegt was het ook niet gedeeltelijk oranje, maar constant oranje:

Dat ben ik met hem eens, en precies daarom is het geen gesmolten staal.
Aluminium -of legering- zou tijdens het vallen veel sneller stollen en natuurlijk eentonig zilverkleurig zijn.
+
Uw getuigen konden helemaal niet zien of het staal of aluminium was !

Ik ga hier niet eens meer op in zo lang u het verband met de controlled demolition op 9/11 zelf niet eens kunt onderbouwen !
Nutteloos gezever over iets wat maanden later plaatsvond en totaal geen verband heeft met het instorten van de torens.

Dr Jones heeft al een paar stevige misleidende foto's en filmpjes geproduceerd , dat zal zelfs u moeten gaan toegeven.

[Dixie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YXzj...eature=related

dr jones de leugenaar!

[atmosphere]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Dixie

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YXzj...eature=related

dr jones de leugenaar!

Precies, vanaf 1 minuut 45 begint het

En zo loog hij ook over de afgesneden kolommen.