Russische vlag op het parlement van de Krim - Pagina 810

tomm · 25 februari 2022, 07:13

Citaat:

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Karel Martel B

De beste manier om dat te bekomen is gedwongen assimilatie, niet de multi-cultuur.

Multi-cultuur is wat ze in Libanon hebben.

Het is totale onzin om enerzijds op alle vlakken "anders" te willen zijn, en dan te klagen dat je als "anders" wordt behandeld.

Zoiets heet logica, niet racisme.

Mensen mogen wel nog hun religie behouden he, dat is een basisrecht.
Maar de partij is ook de enige die ik ken met relatief veel gemengde koppels, en niet "de Begische vrouw die zich bekeert en begint een sluier te dragen" Zulke figuren zijn, zoals ik al zei, niet echt welkom. Meer iets voor de echte multicul partijen Groen en ecolo.
in de workshops zie je soms gesluierde vrouwen die het hebben over homoseksualiteit of feminisme. Wie in zijn eigen fanatieke wereld wil blijven leven, heeft niets te zoeken bij de PVDA. Gewoon een kleurtje en een exotische naam is niet genoeg, bij bvb. PS of Ecolo wel, als ze maar stemmen opleveren.

Karel Martel B · 25 februari 2022, 07:14

Citaat:

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door tomm

De PVDA is ook tegen ghetto s. Maar als je die mensen nooit uitnodigt en geen werkgelegenheid wil bieden moet je niet veel verwachten.

Er is heel wat werkgelegenheid in de bouw.

tomm · 25 februari 2022, 07:17

Citaat:

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Der Wanderer

Wat dat laatste betreft, onderscheiden ze zich inderdaad positief van de Nederlandse SP. Maar op het vlak van migratie ben ik toch niet overtuigd (het Global Compact goedkeuren, zich verzetten tegen woonstbetredingen, geen invraagstelling van het Verdrag van Genève etc.). Ook op immaterieel gebied ben ik terughoudend (belangrijk lijkt me het herstel van de onderwijskwaliteit, het terugdraaien van de 'pedagogie'). Niettemin heb ik op sociaal-economisch vlak wel sympathie (en doordat ze het 'menen'), al zal daar de focus op taxering uiteindelijk niet volstaan (maar ik neem aan dat die focus deels strategisch is): om daadwerkelijk het tij van de oligarchie te keren, waarbij 'belastingen' steeds meer beheerskosten zijn voor een organisatie (de staat) die haar belangen behartigt, zullen ook gerichte onteigeningen aan de orde zijn, net als beperkingen op verrijking door bezit van onroerend goed.

Dat laatste zeggen ze nog niet met zoveel woorden, maar vroeg of laat zal dat wel moeten gebeuren. De PVDA pleit wel al voor een veel grotere publieke banksector.

tomm · 25 februari 2022, 07:19

Citaat:

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Karel Martel B

Er is heel wat werkgelegenheid in de bouw.

Daar werken tegenwoordig vooral Bulgaren, etc. en meer en meer Oekraieners, Brazilianen, etc die via allerlei louche onderaannemers hier belanden.Idem dito in de transport sector. Daar is de PVDA sterk tegen gekant, net als tegen de "Uberisering" van het werknemersstatuut.

tomm · 25 februari 2022, 07:31

Citaat:

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door tomm

About 20km (12 miles) from the Donetsk breakaway republic, in eastern Ukraine, I got a glimpse of clashing views about Russia’s invasion as people did some early morning shopping on Thursday.

"Just bear in mind that the Donbas is pleased things turned out like this," one white-haired woman said, when I told her I was a journalist from the BBC.

"Because how much can they bomb Donetsk?" she went on. "Or don’t you realise that they are bombing?"

She was telling me that the Ukrainian military had been bombing Donetsk - a Ukrainian city that was seized by Russian-backed rebels in 2014 - and saying the people of the wider region, the Donbas, supported the latest Russian action.

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-60517447

Hier en daar hebben Oekraiense soldaten in Donbas hun post verlaten en werd in dorpen en steden enthousiast de Russische driekleur gehesen, nog voor de komst van de Russen.
Ik heb dit van Oekraiense vrienden, maar jan kloppen zelfs op het journaal al beelden van gezien.

tomm · 25 februari 2022, 07:34

Dus alles bij elkaar een onverantwoorde gok met zware gevolgen, maar naast risico s biedt het ook mogelijkheden die er voorheen niet waren. Zoals bvb. de aansluiting van heel Zuid- en Oost-Oekraine bij Rusland.

Die in Lviv en West-Oekraine kunnen dan een rest-Oekraine vormen. Of Oekraine jan omgevormd worden tot een confederatie, zou ook een goede zaak zijn.
De stoere uiterst-rechtse milities hoor of zie je niet meer nu ze het tegen de Russen moeten opnemen.

Karel Martel B · 25 februari 2022, 07:36

Citaat:

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door tomm

Daar werken tegenwoordig vooral Bulgaren, etc. en meer en meer Oekraieners, Brazilianen, etc die via allerlei louche onderaannemers hier belanden.Idem dito in de transport sector. Daar is de PVDA sterk tegen gekant, net als tegen de "Uberisering" van het werknemersstatuut.

Wel, als al die mensen daar kunnen werken, waarom kunnen de noord-afrikanen daar niet werken?

Er is volk te kort. Veel volk zelfs.

Het enige dat ge moet doen is opdagen op tijd, niet achterlijk zijn en doen wat de ploegbaas zegt.

tomm · 25 februari 2022, 07:40

Citaat:

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Karel Martel B

Wel, als al die mensen daar kunnen werken, waarom kunnen de noord-afrikanen daar niet werken?

Er is volk te kort. Veel volk zelfs.

Het enige dat ge moet doen is opdagen op tijd, niet achterlijk zijn en doen wat de ploegbaas zegt.

De werkomstandigheden zijn daar meestal slecht (behalve voor gespecialiseerde beroepen) de lonen niet hoog voor het harde werk.Als die sectoren eens uitgemest worden zijn er mogelijkheden, nu nemen bedrijven liever buitenlanders aan die ze kunnen uitbuiten.

cato · 25 februari 2022, 07:47

Citaat:

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door tomm

Hier en daar hebben Oekraiense soldaten in Donbas hun post verlaten en werd in dorpen en steden enthousiast de Russische driekleur gehesen, nog voor de komst van de Russen.
Ik heb dit van Oekraiense vrienden, maar jan kloppen zelfs op het journaal al beelden van gezien.

Dat geldt alleen voor Donbas.
Deze oorlogen gaat een langdurige guerrilla oorlog worden en uiteindelijk
zullen de Russen dit oplossen met een coup tegen Poetin.

tomm · 25 februari 2022, 07:51

Citaat:

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Nr.10

Dat antagonisme vermelden in een parlement als het onze wordt gezien als vloeken in de kerk, onterecht. Parlementsleden zijn ook maar mensen. Ze hebben weinig ervaring met dit soort zaken, ze zien het niet.

Die vriend van mij heeft ook gesproken in het parlement, de gebruikelijke voorgekauwde nonsens.
We hebben het zo weinig mogelijk over politiek als we vrienden willen blijven. Zeker deze kwestie neem ik persoonlijk.

tomm · 25 februari 2022, 07:56

Citaat:

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Nr.10

Dat antagonisme vermelden in een parlement als het onze wordt gezien als vloeken in de kerk, onterecht. Parlementsleden zijn ook maar mensen. Ze hebben weinig ervaring met dit soort zaken, ze zien het niet.

Citaat:

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door cato

Dat geldt alleen voor Donbas.
Deze oorlogen gaat een langdurige guerrilla oorlog worden en uiteindelijk
zullen de Russen dit oplossen met een coup tegen Poetin.

Daar geloof ik niets van, het leger is net de grootste steunpilaar van het Poetin regime.

Ik weet ook niet exact wat de Russen van plan zijn, maar het maakt wel vanalles los.
Als er in bepaalde regio s teveel verzet komt zullen ze zich terugtrekken in de regio s waar ze wel steun genieten, zoals Odesa en Kharkov, minstens Donbas.

Minimalistisch enkel Donbas, maximalistisch heel Oekraine.

Nr.10 · 25 februari 2022, 08:00

_{Gisteren vroeg in de morgen.

Over de gebeurtenissen in Donbas en de doelstellingen.

De geschreven transcript (en):}

Address by the President of the Russian Federation
_{24 feb 2022

6:00 uur

Het Kremlin

Moskou}

"Citizens of Russia, friends,

(...)

There are many examples of this. First a bloody military operation was waged against Belgrade, without the UN Security Council’s sanction but with combat aircraft and missiles used in the heart of Europe. The bombing of peaceful cities and vital infrastructure went on for several weeks. I have to recall these facts, because some Western colleagues prefer to forget them, and when we mentioned the event, they prefer to avoid speaking about international law, instead emphasising the circumstances which they interpret as they think necessary.

Then came the turn of Iraq, Libya and Syria. The illegal use of military power against Libya and the distortion of all the UN Security Council decisions on Libya ruined the state, created a huge seat of international terrorism, and pushed the country towards a humanitarian catastrophe, into the vortex of a civil war, which has continued there for years. The tragedy, which was created for hundreds of thousands and even millions of people not only in Libya but in the whole region, has led to a large-scale exodus from the Middle East and North Africa to Europe.

A similar fate was also prepared for Syria. The combat operations conducted by the Western coalition in that country without the Syrian government’s approval or UN Security Council’s sanction can only be defined as aggression and intervention.

But the example that stands apart from the above events is, of course, the invasion of Iraq without any legal grounds. They used the pretext of allegedly reliable information available in the United States about the presence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. To prove that allegation, the US Secretary of State held up a vial with white power, publicly, for the whole world to see, assuring the international community that it was a chemical warfare agent created in Iraq. It later turned out that all of that was a fake and a sham, and that Iraq did not have any chemical weapons. Incredible and shocking but true. We witnessed lies made at the highest state level and voiced from the high UN rostrum. As a result we see a tremendous loss in human life, damage, destruction, and a colossal upsurge of terrorism.

Overall, it appears that nearly everywhere, in many regions of the world where the United States brought its law and order, this created bloody, non-healing wounds and the curse of international terrorism and extremism. I have only mentioned the most glaring but far from only examples of disregard for international law.

This array includes promises not to expand NATO eastwards even by an inch. To reiterate: they have deceived us, or, to put it simply, they have played us. Sure, one often hears that politics is a dirty business. It could be, but it shouldn’t be as dirty as it is now, not to such an extent. This type of con-artist behaviour is contrary not only to the principles of international relations but also and above all to the generally accepted norms of morality and ethics. Where is justice and truth here? Just lies and hypocrisy all around.

Incidentally, US politicians, political scientists and journalists write and say that a veritable “empire of lies” has been created inside the United States in recent years. It is hard to disagree with this – it is really so. But one should not be modest about it: the United States is still a great country and a system-forming power. All its satellites not only humbly and obediently say yes to and parrot it at the slightest pretext but also imitate its behaviour and enthusiastically accept the rules it is offering them. Therefore, one can say with good reason and confidence that the whole so-called Western bloc formed by the United States in its own image and likeness is, in its entirety, the very same “empire of lies.”

As for our country, after the disintegration of the USSR, given the entire unprecedented openness of the new, modern Russia, its readiness to work honestly with the United States and other Western partners, and its practically unilateral disarmament, they immediately tried to put the final squeeze on us, finish us off, and utterly destroy us. This is how it was in the 1990s and the early 2000s, when the so-called collective West was actively supporting separatism and gangs of mercenaries in southern Russia. What victims, what losses we had to sustain and what trials we had to go through at that time before we broke the back of international terrorism in the Caucasus! We remember this and will never forget.

Properly speaking, the attempts to use us in their own interests never ceased until quite recently: they sought to destroy our traditional values and force on us their false values that would erode us, our people from within, the attitudes they have been aggressively imposing on their countries, attitudes that are directly leading to degradation and degeneration, because they are contrary to human nature. This is not going to happen. No one has ever succeeded in doing this, nor will they succeed now.

Despite all that, in December 2021, we made yet another attempt to reach agreement with the United States and its allies on the principles of European security and NATO’s non-expansion. Our efforts were in vain. The United States has not changed its position. It does not believe it necessary to agree with Russia on a matter that is critical for us. The United States is pursuing its own objectives, while neglecting our interests.

Of course, this situation begs a question: what next, what are we to expect? If history is any guide, we know that in 1940 and early 1941 the Soviet Union went to great lengths to prevent war or at least delay its outbreak. To this end, the USSR sought not to provoke the potential aggressor until the very end by refraining or postponing the most urgent and obvious preparations it had to make to defend itself from an imminent attack. When it finally acted, it was too late.

As a result, the country was not prepared to counter the invasion by Nazi Germany, which attacked our Motherland on June 22, 1941, without declaring war. The country stopped the enemy and went on to defeat it, but this came at a tremendous cost. The attempt to appease the aggressor ahead of the Great Patriotic War proved to be a mistake which came at a high cost for our people. In the first months after the hostilities broke out, we lost vast territories of strategic importance, as well as millions of lives. We will not make this mistake the second time. We have no right to do so.

Those who aspire to global dominance have publicly designated Russia as their enemy. They did so with impunity. Make no mistake, they had no reason to act this way. It is true that they have considerable financial, scientific, technological, and military capabilities. We are aware of this and have an objective view of the economic threats we have been hearing, just as our ability to counter this brash and never-ending blackmail. Let me reiterate that we have no illusions in this regard and are extremely realistic in our assessments.

As for military affairs, even after the dissolution of the USSR and losing a considerable part of its capabilities, today’s Russia remains one of the most powerful nuclear states. Moreover, it has a certain advantage in several cutting-edge weapons. In this context, there should be no doubt for anyone that any potential aggressor will face defeat and ominous consequences should it directly attack our country.

At the same time, technology, including in the defence sector, is changing rapidly. One day there is one leader, and tomorrow another, but a military presence in territories bordering on Russia, if we permit it to go ahead, will stay for decades to come or maybe forever, creating an ever mounting and totally unacceptable threat for Russia.

Even now, with NATO’s eastward expansion the situation for Russia has been becoming worse and more dangerous by the year. Moreover, these past days NATO leadership has been blunt in its statements that they need to accelerate and step up efforts to bring the alliance’s infrastructure closer to Russia’s borders. In other words, they have been toughening their position. We cannot stay idle and passively observe these developments. This would be an absolutely irresponsible thing to do for us.

Any further expansion of the North Atlantic alliance’s infrastructure or the ongoing efforts to gain a military foothold of the Ukrainian territory are unacceptable for us. Of course, the question is not about NATO itself. It merely serves as a tool of US foreign policy. The problem is that in territories adjacent to Russia, which I have to note is our historical land, a hostile “anti-Russia” is taking shape. Fully controlled from the outside, it is doing everything to attract NATO armed forces and obtain cutting-edge weapons.

For the United States and its allies, it is a policy of containing Russia, with obvious geopolitical dividends. For our country, it is a matter of life and death, a matter of our historical future as a nation. This is not an exaggeration; this is a fact. It is not only a very real threat to our interests but to the very existence of our state and to its sovereignty. It is the red line which we have spoken about on numerous occasions. They have crossed it.

This brings me to the situation in Donbass. We can see that the forces that staged the coup in Ukraine in 2014 have seized power, are keeping it with the help of ornamental election procedures and have abandoned the path of a peaceful conflict settlement. For eight years, for eight endless years we have been doing everything possible to settle the situation by peaceful political means. Everything was in vain.

As I said in my previous address, you cannot look without compassion at what is happening there. It became impossible to tolerate it. We had to stop that atrocity, that genocide of the millions of people who live there and who pinned their hopes on Russia, on all of us. It is their aspirations, the feelings and pain of these people that were the main motivating force behind our decision to recognise the independence of the Donbass people’s republics.

I would like to additionally emphasise the following. Focused on their own goals, the leading NATO countries are supporting the far-right nationalists and neo-Nazis in Ukraine, those who will never forgive the people of Crimea and Sevastopol for freely making a choice to reunite with Russia.

They will undoubtedly try to bring war to Crimea just as they have done in Donbass, to kill innocent people just as members of the punitive units of Ukrainian nationalists and Hitler’s accomplices did during the Great Patriotic War. They have also openly laid claim to several other Russian regions.

If we look at the sequence of events and the incoming reports, the showdown between Russia and these forces cannot be avoided. It is only a matter of time. They are getting ready and waiting for the right moment. Moreover, they went as far as aspire to acquire nuclear weapons. We will not let this happen.

I have already said that Russia accepted the new geopolitical reality after the dissolution of the USSR. We have been treating all new post-Soviet states with respect and will continue to act this way. We respect and will respect their sovereignty, as proven by the assistance we provided to Kazakhstan when it faced tragic events and a challenge in terms of its statehood and integrity. However, Russia cannot feel safe, develop, and exist while facing a permanent threat from the territory of today’s Ukraine.

Let me remind you that in 2000–2005 we used our military to push back against terrorists in the Caucasus and stood up for the integrity of our state. We preserved Russia. In 2014, we supported the people of Crimea and Sevastopol. In 2015, we used our Armed Forces to create a reliable shield that prevented terrorists from Syria from penetrating Russia. This was a matter of defending ourselves. We had no other choice.

The same is happening today. They did not leave us any other option for defending Russia and our people, other than the one we are forced to use today. In these circumstances, we have to take bold and immediate action. The people’s republics of Donbass have asked Russia for help.

In this context, in accordance with Article 51 (Chapter VII) of the UN Charter, with permission of Russia’s Federation Council, and in execution of the treaties of friendship and mutual assistance with the Donetsk People’s Republic and the Lugansk People’s Republic, ratified by the Federal Assembly on February 22, I made a decision to carry out a special military operation.

The purpose of this operation is to protect people who, for eight years now, have been facing humiliation and genocide perpetrated by the Kiev regime. To this end, we will seek to demilitarise and denazify Ukraine, as well as bring to trial those who perpetrated numerous bloody crimes against civilians, including against citizens of the Russian Federation.

It is not our plan to occupy the Ukrainian territory. We do not intend to impose anything on anyone by force. At the same time, we have been hearing an increasing number of statements coming from the West that there is no need any more to abide by the documents setting forth the outcomes of World War II, as signed by the totalitarian Soviet regime. How can we respond to that?

The outcomes of World War II and the sacrifices our people had to make to defeat Nazism are sacred. This does not contradict the high values of human rights and freedoms in the reality that emerged over the post-war decades. This does not mean that nations cannot enjoy the right to self-determination, which is enshrined in Article 1 of the UN Charter.

Let me remind you that the people living in territories which are part of today’s Ukraine were not asked how they want to build their lives when the USSR was created or after World War II. Freedom guides our policy, the freedom to choose independently our future and the future of our children. We believe that all the peoples living in today’s Ukraine, anyone who want to do this, must be able to enjoy this right to make a free choice.

In this context I would like to address the citizens of Ukraine. In 2014, Russia was obliged to protect the people of Crimea and Sevastopol from those who you yourself call “nats.” The people of Crimea and Sevastopol made their choice in favour of being with their historical homeland, Russia, and we supported their choice. As I said, we could not act otherwise.

The current events have nothing to do with a desire to infringe on the interests of Ukraine and the Ukrainian people. They are connected with the defending Russia from those who have taken Ukraine hostage and are trying to use it against our country and our people.

I reiterate: we are acting to defend ourselves from the threats created for us and from a worse peril than what is happening now. I am asking you, however hard this may be, to understand this and to work together with us so as to turn this tragic page as soon as possible and to move forward together, without allowing anyone to interfere in our affairs and our relations but developing them independently, so as to create favourable conditions for overcoming all these problems and to strengthen us from within as a single whole, despite the existence of state borders. I believe in this, in our common future.

I would also like to address the military personnel of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

Comrade officers,

Your fathers, grandfathers and great-grandfathers did not fight the Nazi occupiers and did not defend our common Motherland to allow today’s neo-Nazis to seize power in Ukraine. You swore the oath of allegiance to the Ukrainian people and not to the junta, the people’s adversary which is plundering Ukraine and humiliating the Ukrainian people.

I urge you to refuse to carry out their criminal orders. I urge you to immediately lay down arms and go home. I will explain what this means: the military personnel of the Ukrainian army who do this will be able to freely leave the zone of hostilities and return to their families.

I want to emphasise again that all responsibility for the possible bloodshed will lie fully and wholly with the ruling Ukrainian regime.

I would now like to say something very important for those who may be tempted to interfere in these developments from the outside. No matter who tries to stand in our way or all the more so create threats for our country and our people, they must know that Russia will respond immediately, and the consequences will be such as you have never seen in your entire history. No matter how the events unfold, we are ready. All the necessary decisions in this regard have been taken. I hope that my words will be heard.

Citizens of Russia,

The culture and values, experience and traditions of our ancestors invariably provided a powerful underpinning for the wellbeing and the very existence of entire states and nations, their success and viability. Of course, this directly depends on the ability to quickly adapt to constant change, maintain social cohesion, and readiness to consolidate and summon all the available forces in order to move forward.

We always need to be strong, but this strength can take on different forms. The “empire of lies,” which I mentioned in the beginning of my speech, proceeds in its policy primarily from rough, direct force. This is when our saying on being “all brawn and no brains” applies.

We all know that having justice and truth on our side is what makes us truly strong. If this is the case, it would be hard to disagree with the fact that it is our strength and our readiness to fight that are the bedrock of independence and sovereignty and provide the necessary foundation for building a reliable future for your home, your family, and your Motherland.

Dear compatriots,

I am certain that devoted soldiers and officers of Russia’s Armed Forces will perform their duty with professionalism and courage. I have no doubt that the government institutions at all levels and specialists will work effectively to guarantee the stability of our economy, financial system and social wellbeing, and the same applies to corporate executives and the entire business community. I hope that all parliamentary parties and civil society take a consolidated, patriotic position.

At the end of the day, the future of Russia is in the hands of its multi-ethnic people, as has always been the case in our history. This means that the decisions that I made will be executed, that we will achieve the goals we have set, and reliably guarantee the security of our Motherland.

I believe in your support and the invincible force rooted in the love for our Fatherland."

alpina · 25 februari 2022, 08:06

Citaat:

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Nr.10

Gisteren vroeg in de morgen.
Over de gebeurtenissen in Donbas

Beste nr10: uw copy pastes van hele artikelen zijn een beetje vervelend. Een link naar het artikel en uw persoonlijke visie erop zijn wel relevant.

Nr.10 · 25 februari 2022, 08:18

Citaat:

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door alpina

Beste nr10: uw copy pastes van hele artikelen zijn een beetje vervelend. Een link naar het artikel en uw persoonlijke visie erop zijn wel relevant.

Het is veel werk om alles grondig te lezen. Daarom werd deze keer de commentaar beperkt via het aanbrengen van kleur, om een aantal elementen in de verf te zetten.

De Rode Willem · 25 februari 2022, 08:20

Citaat:

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door alpina

Beste nr10: uw copy pastes van hele artikelen zijn een beetje vervelend. Een link naar het artikel en uw persoonlijke visie erop zijn wel relevant.

2!

Nr.10 · 25 februari 2022, 08:22

Citaat:

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door tomm

Daar geloof ik niets van, het leger is net de grootste steunpilaar van het Poetin regime.

Ik weet ook niet exact wat de Russen van plan zijn, maar het maakt wel vanalles los.
Als er in bepaalde regio s teveel verzet komt zullen ze zich terugtrekken in de regio s waar ze wel steun genieten, zoals Odesa en Kharkov, minstens Donbas.

Minimalistisch enkel Donbas, maximalistisch heel Oekraine.

Hier komt zeker vanalles los. Een beer poken is een gevaarlijk spel.

(fig.)

Nr.10 · 25 februari 2022, 08:24

Citaat:

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door De Rode Willem

2!

Ik ben het ermee eens.

De sociale media verminderen de concentratiespanne van de geesten van de bevolking jaar na jaar.

Een langdurige inspanning kunnen de mensen minder en minder aan.

tomm · 25 februari 2022, 08:41

Misschien wordt het wel een storm in een glas water: Poetin en Zelensky zeggen beiden dat ze bereid zijn te praten over neutraliteit voor Oekraine.
https://www.rt.com/russia/550546-zel...ne-neutrality/

Vraag rest dan nog, wat zal er gebeuren met Donbas?

tomm · 25 februari 2022, 08:43

Citaat:

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Nr.10

Hier komt zeker vanalles los. Een beer poken is een gevaarlijk spel.

(fig.)

Misschien loopt het allemaal wel met een sisser af.

https://www.rt.com/russia/550546-zel...ne-neutrality/

Nietzsche · 25 februari 2022, 08:44

Citaat:

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door tomm

Misschien wordt het wel een storm in een glas water: Poetin en Zelensky zeggen beiden dat ze bereid zijn te praten over neutraliteit voor Oekraine.
https://www.rt.com/russia/550546-zel...ne-neutrality/

Fantastische bron ook.

25 februari 2022, 07:34	#16186
tomm Secretaris-Generaal VN Geregistreerd: 4 juli 2003 Locatie: Nederland Berichten: 43.603	Dus alles bij elkaar een onverantwoorde gok met zware gevolgen, maar naast risico s biedt het ook mogelijkheden die er voorheen niet waren. Zoals bvb. de aansluiting van heel Zuid- en Oost-Oekraine bij Rusland. Die in Lviv en West-Oekraine kunnen dan een rest-Oekraine vormen. Of Oekraine jan omgevormd worden tot een confederatie, zou ook een goede zaak zijn. De stoere uiterst-rechtse milities hoor of zie je niet meer nu ze het tegen de Russen moeten opnemen. Laatst gewijzigd door tomm : 25 februari 2022 om 07:37.

25 februari 2022, 08:00	#16192
Nr.10 Secretaris-Generaal VN Geregistreerd: 26 september 2003 Locatie: van Lissabon tot Vladivostok Berichten: 33.595	_{Gisteren vroeg in de morgen. Over de gebeurtenissen in Donbas en de doelstellingen. De geschreven transcript (en):} Address by the President of the Russian Federation _{24 feb 2022 6:00 uur Het Kremlin Moskou} "Citizens of Russia, friends, (...) There are many examples of this. First a bloody military operation was waged against Belgrade, without the UN Security Council’s sanction but with combat aircraft and missiles used in the heart of Europe. The bombing of peaceful cities and vital infrastructure went on for several weeks. I have to recall these facts, because some Western colleagues prefer to forget them, and when we mentioned the event, they prefer to avoid speaking about international law, instead emphasising the circumstances which they interpret as they think necessary. Then came the turn of Iraq, Libya and Syria. The illegal use of military power against Libya and the distortion of all the UN Security Council decisions on Libya ruined the state, created a huge seat of international terrorism, and pushed the country towards a humanitarian catastrophe, into the vortex of a civil war, which has continued there for years. The tragedy, which was created for hundreds of thousands and even millions of people not only in Libya but in the whole region, has led to a large-scale exodus from the Middle East and North Africa to Europe. A similar fate was also prepared for Syria. The combat operations conducted by the Western coalition in that country without the Syrian government’s approval or UN Security Council’s sanction can only be defined as aggression and intervention. But the example that stands apart from the above events is, of course, the invasion of Iraq without any legal grounds. They used the pretext of allegedly reliable information available in the United States about the presence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. To prove that allegation, the US Secretary of State held up a vial with white power, publicly, for the whole world to see, assuring the international community that it was a chemical warfare agent created in Iraq. It later turned out that all of that was a fake and a sham, and that Iraq did not have any chemical weapons. Incredible and shocking but true. We witnessed lies made at the highest state level and voiced from the high UN rostrum. As a result we see a tremendous loss in human life, damage, destruction, and a colossal upsurge of terrorism. Overall, it appears that nearly everywhere, in many regions of the world where the United States brought its law and order, this created bloody, non-healing wounds and the curse of international terrorism and extremism. I have only mentioned the most glaring but far from only examples of disregard for international law. This array includes promises not to expand NATO eastwards even by an inch. To reiterate: they have deceived us, or, to put it simply, they have played us. Sure, one often hears that politics is a dirty business. It could be, but it shouldn’t be as dirty as it is now, not to such an extent. This type of con-artist behaviour is contrary not only to the principles of international relations but also and above all to the generally accepted norms of morality and ethics. Where is justice and truth here? Just lies and hypocrisy all around. Incidentally, US politicians, political scientists and journalists write and say that a veritable “empire of lies” has been created inside the United States in recent years. It is hard to disagree with this – it is really so. But one should not be modest about it: the United States is still a great country and a system-forming power. All its satellites not only humbly and obediently say yes to and parrot it at the slightest pretext but also imitate its behaviour and enthusiastically accept the rules it is offering them. Therefore, one can say with good reason and confidence that the whole so-called Western bloc formed by the United States in its own image and likeness is, in its entirety, the very same “empire of lies.” As for our country, after the disintegration of the USSR, given the entire unprecedented openness of the new, modern Russia, its readiness to work honestly with the United States and other Western partners, and its practically unilateral disarmament, they immediately tried to put the final squeeze on us, finish us off, and utterly destroy us. This is how it was in the 1990s and the early 2000s, when the so-called collective West was actively supporting separatism and gangs of mercenaries in southern Russia. What victims, what losses we had to sustain and what trials we had to go through at that time before we broke the back of international terrorism in the Caucasus! We remember this and will never forget. Properly speaking, the attempts to use us in their own interests never ceased until quite recently: they sought to destroy our traditional values and force on us their false values that would erode us, our people from within, the attitudes they have been aggressively imposing on their countries, attitudes that are directly leading to degradation and degeneration, because they are contrary to human nature. This is not going to happen. No one has ever succeeded in doing this, nor will they succeed now. Despite all that, in December 2021, we made yet another attempt to reach agreement with the United States and its allies on the principles of European security and NATO’s non-expansion. Our efforts were in vain. The United States has not changed its position. It does not believe it necessary to agree with Russia on a matter that is critical for us. The United States is pursuing its own objectives, while neglecting our interests. Of course, this situation begs a question: what next, what are we to expect? If history is any guide, we know that in 1940 and early 1941 the Soviet Union went to great lengths to prevent war or at least delay its outbreak. To this end, the USSR sought not to provoke the potential aggressor until the very end by refraining or postponing the most urgent and obvious preparations it had to make to defend itself from an imminent attack. When it finally acted, it was too late. As a result, the country was not prepared to counter the invasion by Nazi Germany, which attacked our Motherland on June 22, 1941, without declaring war. The country stopped the enemy and went on to defeat it, but this came at a tremendous cost. The attempt to appease the aggressor ahead of the Great Patriotic War proved to be a mistake which came at a high cost for our people. In the first months after the hostilities broke out, we lost vast territories of strategic importance, as well as millions of lives. We will not make this mistake the second time. We have no right to do so. Those who aspire to global dominance have publicly designated Russia as their enemy. They did so with impunity. Make no mistake, they had no reason to act this way. It is true that they have considerable financial, scientific, technological, and military capabilities. We are aware of this and have an objective view of the economic threats we have been hearing, just as our ability to counter this brash and never-ending blackmail. Let me reiterate that we have no illusions in this regard and are extremely realistic in our assessments. As for military affairs, even after the dissolution of the USSR and losing a considerable part of its capabilities, today’s Russia remains one of the most powerful nuclear states. Moreover, it has a certain advantage in several cutting-edge weapons. In this context, there should be no doubt for anyone that any potential aggressor will face defeat and ominous consequences should it directly attack our country. At the same time, technology, including in the defence sector, is changing rapidly. One day there is one leader, and tomorrow another, but a military presence in territories bordering on Russia, if we permit it to go ahead, will stay for decades to come or maybe forever, creating an ever mounting and totally unacceptable threat for Russia. Even now, with NATO’s eastward expansion the situation for Russia has been becoming worse and more dangerous by the year. Moreover, these past days NATO leadership has been blunt in its statements that they need to accelerate and step up efforts to bring the alliance’s infrastructure closer to Russia’s borders. In other words, they have been toughening their position. We cannot stay idle and passively observe these developments. This would be an absolutely irresponsible thing to do for us. Any further expansion of the North Atlantic alliance’s infrastructure or the ongoing efforts to gain a military foothold of the Ukrainian territory are unacceptable for us. Of course, the question is not about NATO itself. It merely serves as a tool of US foreign policy. The problem is that in territories adjacent to Russia, which I have to note is our historical land, a hostile “anti-Russia” is taking shape. Fully controlled from the outside, it is doing everything to attract NATO armed forces and obtain cutting-edge weapons. For the United States and its allies, it is a policy of containing Russia, with obvious geopolitical dividends. For our country, it is a matter of life and death, a matter of our historical future as a nation. This is not an exaggeration; this is a fact. It is not only a very real threat to our interests but to the very existence of our state and to its sovereignty. It is the red line which we have spoken about on numerous occasions. They have crossed it. This brings me to the situation in Donbass. We can see that the forces that staged the coup in Ukraine in 2014 have seized power, are keeping it with the help of ornamental election procedures and have abandoned the path of a peaceful conflict settlement. For eight years, for eight endless years we have been doing everything possible to settle the situation by peaceful political means. Everything was in vain. As I said in my previous address, you cannot look without compassion at what is happening there. It became impossible to tolerate it. We had to stop that atrocity, that genocide of the millions of people who live there and who pinned their hopes on Russia, on all of us. It is their aspirations, the feelings and pain of these people that were the main motivating force behind our decision to recognise the independence of the Donbass people’s republics. I would like to additionally emphasise the following. Focused on their own goals, the leading NATO countries are supporting the far-right nationalists and neo-Nazis in Ukraine, those who will never forgive the people of Crimea and Sevastopol for freely making a choice to reunite with Russia. They will undoubtedly try to bring war to Crimea just as they have done in Donbass, to kill innocent people just as members of the punitive units of Ukrainian nationalists and Hitler’s accomplices did during the Great Patriotic War. They have also openly laid claim to several other Russian regions. If we look at the sequence of events and the incoming reports, the showdown between Russia and these forces cannot be avoided. It is only a matter of time. They are getting ready and waiting for the right moment. Moreover, they went as far as aspire to acquire nuclear weapons. We will not let this happen. I have already said that Russia accepted the new geopolitical reality after the dissolution of the USSR. We have been treating all new post-Soviet states with respect and will continue to act this way. We respect and will respect their sovereignty, as proven by the assistance we provided to Kazakhstan when it faced tragic events and a challenge in terms of its statehood and integrity. However, Russia cannot feel safe, develop, and exist while facing a permanent threat from the territory of today’s Ukraine. Let me remind you that in 2000–2005 we used our military to push back against terrorists in the Caucasus and stood up for the integrity of our state. We preserved Russia. In 2014, we supported the people of Crimea and Sevastopol. In 2015, we used our Armed Forces to create a reliable shield that prevented terrorists from Syria from penetrating Russia. This was a matter of defending ourselves. We had no other choice. The same is happening today. They did not leave us any other option for defending Russia and our people, other than the one we are forced to use today. In these circumstances, we have to take bold and immediate action. The people’s republics of Donbass have asked Russia for help. In this context, in accordance with Article 51 (Chapter VII) of the UN Charter, with permission of Russia’s Federation Council, and in execution of the treaties of friendship and mutual assistance with the Donetsk People’s Republic and the Lugansk People’s Republic, ratified by the Federal Assembly on February 22, I made a decision to carry out a special military operation. The purpose of this operation is to protect people who, for eight years now, have been facing humiliation and genocide perpetrated by the Kiev regime. To this end, we will seek to demilitarise and denazify Ukraine, as well as bring to trial those who perpetrated numerous bloody crimes against civilians, including against citizens of the Russian Federation. It is not our plan to occupy the Ukrainian territory. We do not intend to impose anything on anyone by force. At the same time, we have been hearing an increasing number of statements coming from the West that there is no need any more to abide by the documents setting forth the outcomes of World War II, as signed by the totalitarian Soviet regime. How can we respond to that? The outcomes of World War II and the sacrifices our people had to make to defeat Nazism are sacred. This does not contradict the high values of human rights and freedoms in the reality that emerged over the post-war decades. This does not mean that nations cannot enjoy the right to self-determination, which is enshrined in Article 1 of the UN Charter. Let me remind you that the people living in territories which are part of today’s Ukraine were not asked how they want to build their lives when the USSR was created or after World War II. Freedom guides our policy, the freedom to choose independently our future and the future of our children. We believe that all the peoples living in today’s Ukraine, anyone who want to do this, must be able to enjoy this right to make a free choice. In this context I would like to address the citizens of Ukraine. In 2014, Russia was obliged to protect the people of Crimea and Sevastopol from those who you yourself call “nats.” The people of Crimea and Sevastopol made their choice in favour of being with their historical homeland, Russia, and we supported their choice. As I said, we could not act otherwise. The current events have nothing to do with a desire to infringe on the interests of Ukraine and the Ukrainian people. They are connected with the defending Russia from those who have taken Ukraine hostage and are trying to use it against our country and our people. I reiterate: we are acting to defend ourselves from the threats created for us and from a worse peril than what is happening now. I am asking you, however hard this may be, to understand this and to work together with us so as to turn this tragic page as soon as possible and to move forward together, without allowing anyone to interfere in our affairs and our relations but developing them independently, so as to create favourable conditions for overcoming all these problems and to strengthen us from within as a single whole, despite the existence of state borders. I believe in this, in our common future. I would also like to address the military personnel of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. Comrade officers, Your fathers, grandfathers and great-grandfathers did not fight the Nazi occupiers and did not defend our common Motherland to allow today’s neo-Nazis to seize power in Ukraine. You swore the oath of allegiance to the Ukrainian people and not to the junta, the people’s adversary which is plundering Ukraine and humiliating the Ukrainian people. I urge you to refuse to carry out their criminal orders. I urge you to immediately lay down arms and go home. I will explain what this means: the military personnel of the Ukrainian army who do this will be able to freely leave the zone of hostilities and return to their families. I want to emphasise again that all responsibility for the possible bloodshed will lie fully and wholly with the ruling Ukrainian regime. I would now like to say something very important for those who may be tempted to interfere in these developments from the outside. No matter who tries to stand in our way or all the more so create threats for our country and our people, they must know that Russia will respond immediately, and the consequences will be such as you have never seen in your entire history. No matter how the events unfold, we are ready. All the necessary decisions in this regard have been taken. I hope that my words will be heard. Citizens of Russia, The culture and values, experience and traditions of our ancestors invariably provided a powerful underpinning for the wellbeing and the very existence of entire states and nations, their success and viability. Of course, this directly depends on the ability to quickly adapt to constant change, maintain social cohesion, and readiness to consolidate and summon all the available forces in order to move forward. We always need to be strong, but this strength can take on different forms. The “empire of lies,” which I mentioned in the beginning of my speech, proceeds in its policy primarily from rough, direct force. This is when our saying on being “all brawn and no brains” applies. We all know that having justice and truth on our side is what makes us truly strong. If this is the case, it would be hard to disagree with the fact that it is our strength and our readiness to fight that are the bedrock of independence and sovereignty and provide the necessary foundation for building a reliable future for your home, your family, and your Motherland. Dear compatriots, I am certain that devoted soldiers and officers of Russia’s Armed Forces will perform their duty with professionalism and courage. I have no doubt that the government institutions at all levels and specialists will work effectively to guarantee the stability of our economy, financial system and social wellbeing, and the same applies to corporate executives and the entire business community. I hope that all parliamentary parties and civil society take a consolidated, patriotic position. At the end of the day, the future of Russia is in the hands of its multi-ethnic people, as has always been the case in our history. This means that the decisions that I made will be executed, that we will achieve the goals we have set, and reliably guarantee the security of our Motherland. I believe in your support and the invincible force rooted in the love for our Fatherland." __________________ Doorzoek forum.politics.be (aangepaste zoekmachine)

25 februari 2022, 08:41	#16198
tomm Secretaris-Generaal VN Geregistreerd: 4 juli 2003 Locatie: Nederland Berichten: 43.603	Misschien wordt het wel een storm in een glas water: Poetin en Zelensky zeggen beiden dat ze bereid zijn te praten over neutraliteit voor Oekraine. https://www.rt.com/russia/550546-zel...ne-neutrality/ Vraag rest dan nog, wat zal er gebeuren met Donbas? Laatst gewijzigd door tomm : 25 februari 2022 om 08:45.