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Godsdienst en levensovertuiging In dit forum kan je discussiëren over diverse godsdiensten en levensovertuigingen. |
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Discussietools |
9 april 2004, 13:22 | #1 |
Perm. Vertegenwoordiger VN
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The Bible Led Me to Islam
Abdul Malik LeBlanc tells how he discovered Islam within the pages of Bible Source: International Edition Voice of Islam - November 1998, Page 25 During my Christian days there were many verses in the Bible that made me question the religion I was following (Christianity). There was one particular verse, 1 Thessalonians 5:17 which says; "pray without ceasing," that lingered heavily in my mind. I often wondered how a person (Christian) was supposed to pray (be in a state of worship) without ceasing? Without any biblical or divine guidance, the only way I thought this to be possible was to always do good deeds and keep the remembrance of God on my tongue and in my heart. However, I found this to be impossible to do as a human being. But when I was introduced to Islam in 1987, and began to read and learn more about this way of life, I found that Islam provided divine guidance both from God (Allah) and Prophet Muhammad (SAW) by which a person could pray (be in a state of worship) without ceasing, if it was the Will of God. Whether waking up, eating, sleeping, putting on clothes, being in the presence of a woman, looking at a woman, going shopping, going to the bathroom, looking in the mirror, traveling, visiting the sick, sitting in a non-religious meeting, taking a bath, having sexual intercourse with one’s wife, yawning, cutting you nails, sneezing, greeting people, talking, hosting guests at home, walking, exercising, fighting, entering one’s house, praying and many other acts, Islam and the guidance therein of the Quran, and the acts and sayings of Prophet Muhammad (SAW), provided ways in which I could observe 1 Thessalonians 5:17. In addition, it allowed me to be at peace with myself and in submission to the one True God - Allah (SWT). This divine guidance of Islam taught me greatly about my duties, responsibilities and birthright to my Creator (Allah), and more about the religion of Christianity as a Muslim, I [By the Will of Allah (SWT)] felt it necessary to share with you how the Bible led me to Islam. Christianity Given the fact that there has never been in the history of the Torah (Old Testament) the religion of God to be named after a Prophet (i.e. Adaminity, Abrahamity, Mosanity, etc.), I hope to explain that Jesus did not preach the religion of Christianity, but a religion that gives all Praise and Worship to The One God. One of the questions I asked myself as I took an objective (second) look at Christianity was; where did the word Christianity come from and was the word ever mentioned to Jesus? Well, I did not find the word Christianity in the Bible, not even in a Bible dictionary. Specifically, I did not find in the Bible where Jesus called himself a Christian. The word Christian was first mentioned by a pagan to describe those who followed Jesus. It is mentioned one of three times in the New Testament by a pagan and Jew in Antioch about 43 AD, (Acts 11:26, Acts 26:28 and 1 Peter 4:16) long after Jesus left this earth. To accept the words of pagans as having any value or association with divinity, Jesus or God is contrary to the teachings of all Prophets. Jesus prophesied that people would worship him uselessly and believe in doctrines made by men (Matthew 15:9). "But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men." This verse, Matthew 15:9, is further supported by these words of the Quran: "And (remember) when Allah will say (on the Day of Resurrection): "O Jesus, son of Mary! Did you say unto men: "Worship me and my mother as two gods besides Allah?" He will say: "Glory be to You! It was not for me to say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would surely have known it. You know what is in my inner-self though I do not know what is in Yours, truly, You, only You, are the All-Knower o fall that is hidden and unseen. Never did I say to them aught except what You (Allah) did command me to say: ‘Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.’ And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them, but when You took me up, You were a Witness to all things. (This is a great admonition and warning to the Christians of the whole world)." (Al-Ma’idah 5:116-117) I found that Biblical verses like John 5:30, John 12:49, John 14:28, Isaiah 42:8 and Acts 2:22 support the above mentioned verses of the Quran. Before leaving the subject of Christianity, I should mention one small point of observation. If Christians are Christ-like, why are they not greeting each other with the words; Peace be with you (Salamu Alaikum), as Jesus did in Luke 24:36. As you may be aware, the greeting from one Muslim to another Muslim is Assalamu Alaikum; a Christ-like saying. Various Holy Bibles It is worth mentioning that the Bible references cited might not be exactly as the Bible you are using. There are MANY Bibles on the market that are used by different Christian sects and all of these sects say that their book, though different, is the word of God. Such Bibles are: The Revised Standard Version 1952 & 1971, New American Standard Bible, The Holy Bible; New International Version, the Living Bible, New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures used by Jehovah Witnesses, Roman Catholic Version and the King James Version. A special note: I have not found in any of these Bibles where the "New Testament" calls itself the "New Testament," and nowhere does the "Old Testament" call itself the "Old? Testament." Also, the word "Bible" is unknown within the pages of the Bible. In addition to the many different Christian sects and Bibles, I have learned that there are also different men, not Prophets, who founded these sects and are using various interpretations of the Bible and/or man-made doctrines as their creed. I would like to share with you some thoughts that you may not have read or known about the Bible being the word of God. Briefly, let me mention that on September 8, 1957, the Jehovah’s witnesses in their "Awake" magazine carried this startling headline - 50,000 Errors in the Bible. If you ask a Jehovah’s witness about this headline, it may be said that today most of those errors have been eliminated. How many have been eliminated, 5,000? Even if 50 remain, would one attribute those errors to God? Let me pose another question: if a "Holy" book contained conflicting verses would you still consider it to be Holy? Most likely you will say of course not. Let me share with you some conflicting verses both in the Old and New Testaments: II Samuel 8:4 (vs) II Samuel 8:9-10 II Kings 8:26 II Samuel 6:23 Genesis 6:3 John 5:37 John 5:31 I Chronicles 18:4 I Chronicles 18:9-10 II Chronicles 22:2 II Samuel 21:8 Genesis 9:29 John 14:9 John 8:14 Only two contradictions of the New Testament have been mentioned, but others will be referenced when the Trinity, Divinity of Jesus Christ, Divine Sonship of Jesus, Original Sin and Atonement are reviewed. How could the "inspired words" of God get the genealogy of Jesus incorrect (See Matthew 1:6-16 where it states 26 forefathers up to Prophet David, and Luke 3:23-31 says 41 in number). Or for that matter, give a genealogy to Jesus who had NO father? See II Kings 19:1-37, now read Isaiah 37:1-38. Why is it that the words of these verse are identical? Yet they have been attributed to two different authors, one unknown and the other is Isaiah, who are centuries apart; and yet, the Christians have claimed these books to be inspired by God. I looked up the word Easter in the Nelson Bible dictionary and learned that the word "Easter" (as mentioned in Acts 12:4) is a mistranslation of "pascha," the ordinary Greek word for "Passover." As, you know Passover is a Jewish celebration not a Christian holiday. I think human hands, all to human, had played havoc with the Bible. From the brief points mentioned above, and the fact that Biblical scholars themselves have recognized the human nature and human composition of the Bible (Curt Kuhl, The Old Testament: Its Origin and Composition, PP 47, 51, 52), there should exist in the Christian’s mind some acceptance to the fact that maybe every word of the Bible is not God’s word. As a side note to this subject, let me mention that some Christians believe that the Bible was dictated to Prophet Muhammad (SAW) by a Christian monk, and that is why some of the biblical accounts are in the Quran. After some research, I found that this could not have happened because there were no Arabic Bible in existence in the 6th century of the Christian era when Muhammad (SAW) lived and preached. Therefore, no Arab, not even Prophet Muhammad (SAW) who was absolutely unlettered and unlearned, would have had the opportunity to examine the written text of the Bible in his own language. The Gospels If you read Luke 1:2-3, you will learn, as I did, that Luke (who was not one of the 12 disciples and never met Jesus) said that he himself was not an eyewitness, and the knowledge he gathered was from eyewitnesses, and not as words inspired by God. Incidentally, why does every "Gospel" begin with the introduction According to. Why "according to?" the reason for this is because not a single one of the gospels carries its original author’s autograph! Even the internal evidence of Matthew 9:9 proves that Matthew was not the author of the first Gospel which bears his name: "And as Jesus passed forth thence, He (Jesus) saw a man, named Matthew, sitting at the receipt of custom: and He (Jesus) saith unto Him (Matthew), follow me (Jesus). And he (Matthew) arose, and followed Him (Jesus)." Without any stretch of the imagination, one can see that the He’s and the Him’s of the above narration do not refer to Jesus or Matthew as its author, but a third person writing what he saw or heard - a hearsay account and not words inspired by God. It is worth noting, and well known throughout the religious world, that the choice of the present four "gospels" of the New Testament (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) were imposed in the Council of Nicea 325 CE for political purposes under the auspices of the pagan Emperor Constantine, and not by Jesus. Constantine’s mind had not been enlightened either by study or by inspiration. He was a pagan, a tyrant and criminal who murdered his son, his wife and thousands of innocent individuals because of his lust for political power. Constantine ratified other decisions in the Nicene Creed such as the decision to call Christ "the Son of God, only begotten of the father." Literally, hundreds of gospels and religious writings were hidden from the people. Some of those writings were written by Jesus’ disciples, and many of them were eyewitness accounts of Jesus’ actions. Concerning Jesus’ teachings of the Gospel (Injeel), the Gospel writers frequently mentioned Jesus preaching the Gospel: Matthew 9:35, Mark 8:35, and Luke 20:1. The word "gospel" is recurrently used in the Bible. However, in the New Testament Greek edition the word Evangeline is used in place of the word gospel, which is translated to mean good news. My question was: what Gospel did Jesus preach? Of the 27 books of the New Testament, only a small fraction can be accepted as the words of Jesus, and only of the 27 books are known to be attributed as the Gospel of Jesus. The remaining 23 were supposedly written by Paul. Muslims do believe that Jesus was given God’s "Good News." However, they do not recognized the present four Gospels as the utterances of Jesus. The earliest Gospel is that of Mark’s which was written about 60-75 AD. Mark was the son of Barnabas’s sister. Matthew was a tax collector, a minor official who did not travel around with Jesus. Luke’s Gospel was written much later, and in fact, drawn from the same sources as Mark’s and Matthew’s. Luke was Paul’s physician, and like Paul, never met Jesus. By the way, did you know that the names Marks and Luke were not included in the 12 appointed disciples of Jesus as mentioned in Matthew 10:2-4? Christians, as I once did, boast about the Gospels according to Matthew, according to Mark, according to Luke and according to John. However, if we think about it, there is not a single Gospel according to Jesus himself. According to the preface of the KJV (King James Version) new open Bible study edition, the word "Gospel" was added (see below) to the original titles, "According to John, according to Matthew, according to Luke and according to Mark." The permission to call "According to" writings the Gospel was not given by Jesus nor by any other divine guidance. These writings; Matthew, Luke, Mark and John, were never originally to be the Gospel. Therefore, Mark 1:1 can not be a true statement that his writing is the gospel of Jesus. It should be mentioned that Muslims must believe in all Divine scriptures in their original form, their Prophets and making no distinction between them: The Suhuf (Abraham); Torah (Moses); Psalms (David); Gospel - or the Injeel (Jesus); and the Quran (Muhammad). It is clearly stated in the Quran 3:3 that Allah sent down the Torah and the Gospel. However, none of these scriptures remains in its original form now, except the Quran, which was sent for all mankind everywhere and for all times. In addition to other reasons why the Quran was sent to mankind, as mentioned in 18:4-5 it was sent to warn the Christians of a terrible punishment from God if they cease not in saying: "Allah has begotten a son." Muslims sincerely believe that everything Jesus (May the peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) preached was from God; the Gospel (Injeel): The "good news" and the guidance of God for the Children of Israel. There is no place mentioned in the present four Gospels that Jesus wrote a single word of his Gospel, nor is it mentioned that Jesus instructed anyone to do so. What passes off, as the "Gospels" today are the works of third party human hands. The Quran 2:79 says: "And woe to those who write the book with their own hands and they say: "This is from Allah (God)." To traffic with it for a miserable price! So woe to them for what their hands do write, and woe to them for what they earn thereby!" bron: www.thetruereligion.org/leblanc.htm
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"Moslim freedom, Now !!!" "Free people around the ka3ba for a free faith around the world !"
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9 april 2004, 14:00 | #2 |
Banneling
Geregistreerd: 28 augustus 2003
Locatie: Antwerpen
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Put je zo niet uit man.
Bijbel, Koran... allemaal dezelfde bullshit. Verhaaltjes over op macht beluste minabelen, die het met de vuisten niet konden halen, noch met hun verstand, dus moesten ze een godje uitvinden om toch nog wat te zeggen te hebben, om macht te veroveren. Als jij dat allemaal wil geloven dan moet je eens goed in de spiegel kijken. Misschien ben je zelf zo iemand! |
9 april 2004, 14:30 | #3 |
Vreemdeling
Geregistreerd: 30 september 2003
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EN hier een lijstje van mensen die de andere richting opgegaan zijn ....
http://www.faithfreedom.org/testimonials.htm |
9 april 2004, 14:58 | #4 |
Gouverneur
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9 april 2004, 15:24 | #5 | |
Minister-President
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Citaat:
De Koran kun je gerust een oorlogshandboek noemen.
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Massimo Morsello - Punto di Non Ritorno |
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9 april 2004, 17:40 | #6 | |
Banneling
Geregistreerd: 14 augustus 2002
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Citaat:
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9 april 2004, 18:40 | #7 | ||
Banneling
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Citaat:
Wel wil ik erop wijzen dat in de bijbel, het OT, veel wreder is dan de Koran en het misprijzen voor de vrouw zeker zo erg, zoniet nog erger. En meer recent: de 'christenstaat van Mgr Tiso in Slowakije tijdens WOII. Als dergelijke lieden aan de macht komen is alle redelijkheid zoek, of het nu Tiso is, Calvijn, Khomeini of Sharon. |
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9 april 2004, 20:28 | #8 |
Banneling
Geregistreerd: 14 augustus 2002
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Een leerrijke topic voor degenen onder ons wier ogen nog niet zouden zijn open gegaan.
Vaak wordt door autochtonen er op gehamerd dat we niet mogen veralgemenen, dat we niet alle moslims over één kam mogen scheren. Dat niet alle moslims extremisten, fundamentalisten en terroristen zijn etc. Voor de meesten die hier al een tijdje op dit forum actief zijn staat onze vriend Mustapha een beetje model voor het stereotype van de onredelijke en onverzoenlijke islamitische extremist. Voor zeer velen hier staat daarentegen waarschijnlijk vriend lincoln model voor de redelijke en gematigde moslim. Uit deze topic kunnen we nu mooi afleiden wat het verschil is tussen enerzijds de "gematigde" en anderzijds de "extremistische" moslim. De een kijkt stuurs, gereed om zich te omgorden met bommen, de kalashnikov in de aanslag en een mes tussen de tanden en nog een mes in elk van zijn laarzen. De GSM aan het oor wachtend op het signaal om te horen dat Allah hem heeft uitverkoren om zijn taak uit te voeren. De ander kijkt minzaam glimlachend, begrijpend, met luisterend oor. Wie echter goed ziet en hoort merkt dat beiden nochtans hetzelfde liedje zingen, de een weliswaar met rauwe stem, de ander eerder op een zoetgevooisde manier. Maar het blijft in wezen hetzelfde liedje. Bij de een klinkt het liedje hard en fors, bij de ander zacht en meer gemoedelijk. Maar het blijft dezelfde melodie. Het is de melodie van : www.thetruereligion.org , de melodie van : www.overgave.com , het is het liedje van "Geef je maar over aan de ware religie, onderwerp je want "resistance is futile", het heeft geen zin je ertegen te verzetten want of je dat nu wil of niet "you are being assimilated" - want de ware religie zal zegevieren in the end." Verschil tussen de gematigde en de extremistische moslim? Enkel de vorm, de stijl verschilt. Inhoudelijk zijn ze immers identiek. |
10 april 2004, 02:01 | #9 | |
Schepen
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Citaat:
Voor ik je "zachtmoedige" stelling over lincoln kan bevestigen wacht ik nog op zijn juiste verwijzingen naar de koran in andere topics op deze site. Ze zijn er nog niet omdat hij zich nog niet graag aan een antwoord wil verbranden. Hij verschuilt zich achter de naam van een amerikaanse logeman(wat hij misschien niet weet) en achter de glimlach van een koning-dictator van Marokko(wat hij wel weet). Laat mij toe te glimlachen, ik heb al meer ernstige reacties van "Darwin" gelezen. Mijn naam is niet die van de laatste koning van Turkije met achthonderd vrouwen (hij wist waarschijnlijk zelf niet hoeveel), maar gewoon: Gerard Golsteyn. Ik wacht op de (nieuwe)Lincoln.
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Denken is twijfel aan het eerste gebod van alle goden. |
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10 april 2004, 14:12 | #10 | ||
Perm. Vertegenwoordiger VN
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Citaat:
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"Moslim freedom, Now !!!" "Free people around the ka3ba for a free faith around the world !"
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10 april 2004, 15:59 | #11 |
Vreemdeling
Geregistreerd: 22 maart 2004
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of het nu de koran is of de bijbel...als je eens tussen de regels leest zal je zien dat er bijlange niet zoveel domme regels instaan. Feit dat er al zoveel en zo lang godsdienstoorlogen zijn is te wijten aan al die onnozelaars die zelf maar weer domme regels uitvinden. En of je je nu islamiet noemt of christenen enz...ik merk weinig respect van al die gelovigen.In plaats van het geloof op een deftige manier te praktiseren maken jullie het eerder belachelijk en maken jullie er gewoon een machtsspel van!!!
Ga, onderzoek en onthoud het goede!!! En in mijn bijbel staat er nergens dat de paus zich heilig verklaard en dat vrouwen moeten worden uitgehuwelijkt enz...Die regels zijn echt uitgevonden door idioten extremisten! Ga op een eiland zitten en maak elkaar daar een beetje kapot!!!
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Zo lief als duizendschoon, zo zacht als konijntjes ... woehahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa! |
15 april 2004, 17:11 | #12 |
Europees Commissaris
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Ik heb een vraagje - Licoln heeft de reputatie de man te zijn die de slavernij in Noord-Amerika afschafte. Bestaat er in de geschiedenis van de moslimlanden ook een dergelijke firguur die de "Slavernij" in die landen
afschafte ? Je kan je misschien inspireren op Koning Leopold II die de slavernij in Centraal Afrika in een heroisch gevecht tegen de arabische (moslim) slavenhalers wist af te schaffen.
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Deze gebruikersnaam wordt niet meer benut - maar wel mijn werkelijke naam : Roger Verhiest |
15 april 2004, 17:27 | #13 |
Perm. Vertegenwoordiger VN
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Ik stel mij toch serieuze vragen bij mensen die zich laten bekeren door de Islam. Ik kan me niet voorstellen dat die een serieus leven hebben, eerder marginale/domme personen.
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15 april 2004, 17:30 | #14 | |
Burgemeester
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Citaat:
Man man man... hij heeft zijn concurrenten weten wegjagen ja...dat is alles. My god, dat er vandaag de dag nog mensen zijn die oprecht menen dat Leopold 2 tegen de slavernij was! Hij deed begot zelf niks anders!
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Global warming is caused by Republicans...Along with loss of jobs, lack of middle class economy and war with just about any country that looks at you wrong.. |
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16 april 2004, 12:03 | #15 | |
Banneling
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Citaat:
Ik vermoed dat ge een erg rode bril op hebt. |
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16 april 2004, 12:57 | #16 | ||
Burgemeester
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Citaat:
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Global warming is caused by Republicans...Along with loss of jobs, lack of middle class economy and war with just about any country that looks at you wrong.. |
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16 april 2004, 14:02 | #17 | ||
Banneling
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16 april 2004, 14:05 | #18 | |||
Eur. Commissievoorzitter
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Citaat:
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Het is de NWO! Eentje voor Pindar & co: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3214024953129565561&hl=en-CA en ook wel hilarisch is Citaat:
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16 april 2004, 15:03 | #19 |
Banneling
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19 april 2004, 19:21 | #20 |
Europees Commissaris
Geregistreerd: 3 juli 2003
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Hallo ? Heeft er nog iemand een paar hersenen ? Zijn we nu in de voetsporen van de grote Leopold de Islam aan het bestrijden en de mensen aan het bevrijden of watte ? Of vereren we nog altijd die andere genocidards ? Of moeten wij die andere blinde onderworpene gelovers
waarschuwen voor valse profeten ? Hoe herkent men een ware profeet ? Wie zal ons zeggen wie de valse en wie de goede profeten zijn ? Zoals men aan zijn vruchten een boom herkent zo zal men de profeten herkennen : immers een goede boom draagt goede vruchten en van het fruit van een slechte boom kan men niet eten : zijn vruchten smaken bitter.... Licoln... ik kon niet anders dan op die "nick" reageren ; wat verwijten wij de islam met zoveel verve : slavernij & onderdrukking van vrouwen, hoofddoeken.... Om bijbels te blijven : wij zien de splinter in het oog van onze naaste en zien de balk niet in ons eigen oog... Moeten wij nu met de balk ook ons oog uitrukken ? Moeten wij de bekeringsdrang van onze brave islamietische medeburgers nu maar over ons heen laten lopen ? Moeten wij hen uitlachen & ons er vrolijk over maken ? Ik geloof dat de toestand ernstiger is : wij moeten hun aanvaarden & onze standpunten duidelijk maken zonder hen respektloos te bejegenen. Volgens hun koran zouden ze moeten aanvaarden dat er kristenen, bhoeddisten, taoisten, sintoisten en zelfs atheïsten bestaan. Ze zouden de notie moeten kennen dat men zonder een geloof te verwerpen een andere mening kan toegedaan zijn en respektvol kan samenleven. We hoeven geen jacht te maken op negers om hen tot slaaf te maken ten koste van elkaar om iets te bewijzen.
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Deze gebruikersnaam wordt niet meer benut - maar wel mijn werkelijke naam : Roger Verhiest |