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Oud 23 mei 2005, 14:23   #361
Joriske
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@ 1Handclapping

a) Deel je de ziekelijke logica die de doodsmarsen naar de Syrische woestijn (en als het geen doodsmarsen waren moet je me eens uitleggen hoe ver een 5-jarig kind in de woestijn kan lopen alvorens van de honger en de dorst om te komen) goedpraat? Spreek je jezelf niet tegen wanneer je zegt dat mensen de woestijn in worden gedreven, maar dan niet met de bedoeling om ze te vermoorden?

b) Als het woord genocide zo onbelangrijk is en het slechts gaat om een semantisch probleem, hoe verklaar je dan de Turkse obsessie om het woord uit de geschiedenisboeken te bannen?
__________________
"January 15, 1916 - To the Government of Aleppo - We are informed that certain orphanages which have opened also admitted the children of the Armenians. [...]the Government will view the feeding of such children or any effort to prolong their lives as an act completely opposite to its purpose, since it regards the survival of these children as detrimental. - Minister of the Interior, TALAAT."
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Oud 23 mei 2005, 17:39   #362
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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAH !!
Hij maakt mij RAZEND !!!

Citaat:
"Only 1,500 Turks remain in Van"
Misschien WIL je deze vraag niet beantwoorden ofwel KAN je deze vraag niet beantwoorden, want ik heb deze al verscheidene keren gesteld;

Zeg JIJ MIJ hoeveel Armeniërs er NU in Turkije zijn !!
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Ik ben een KOE!
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Oud 24 mei 2005, 08:05   #363
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Het Turkse geschiedkundige "establishment" is in rep en roer omdat enkele Turkse universiteiten hebben besloten de Armeense Genocide nu een keer te bespreken zonder de bemoeienis van "regeringshistorici", die hen telkens als ze "uit de schreef gaan" beschuldigen van "verraad" : Eens zien wat er gebeurt als vertegenwoordigers van de Turkse overheid zich eens niet bemoeien met het werk van onafhankelijke Turkse wetenschappers. De leden van het establishment zijn er in ieder geval niet gerust in, ze zijn als de dood voor de mogelijkheid dat de Turkse bevolking de "andere kant" van het verhaal zou horen. Of dat ze na 90 jaar propaganda eindelijk aan echt geschiedkundig werk zullen moeten doen.

Citaat:
Hürriyetim
23.05.2005
War of words before conference on Armenians has even begun
http://www.hurriyetim.com.tr/haber/0...~580682,00.asp
Professor Ilber Ortayli (left) and Murat Belge

Sefa Kaplan
A conference to be held between May 25-27 at Bosphorus University is
sparking arguments before it has even started. The conference, organized by
the Bosphorus, Bilgi, and Sabanci Universities, is entitled "Ottoman
Armenians During the Collapse of the Empire: Scholarly Responsibility and
Problems with Democracy," and is expected to attract wide participation.
The sharpest criticism so far of the conference has come from Professor
Ilber Ortayli of Galatasaray University, who has said:

The same old team of people

"The people invited are the same ones who are always invited. There is no
way the issues can be argued healthily." ("Healthily" betekent hier: op de door de Turkse overheid voorgeschreven manier) Ortayli went on, "Maybe they
couldn't invite Professor Yusuf Halacoglu (embattled Turkish professor
recently accused by a Swiss prosecutor of violating Swiss law by denying the
Armenian genocide), by they should have invited retired diplomat Gunduz
Aktan for his knowledge of law....In this country, there is democracy,
everyone can do what they want. Everyone can account for their actions. My
views on this matter are clear."

Professor Yusuf Halacoglu (hoofd van de aan de Turkse overheid gebonden Turkish Historical Society) also had criticisms for the upcoming conference:
"They have invited people who will echo the views of the Armenian side. Why
haven't they invited me? If they see me as representing the official view on
the matter, they must be defending the diaspora view of things."

Professor Berktay of Sabanci University: No need for Halacoglu to
"re-enlighten" us

In answer to much of the criticism, Professor Halil Berktay of Sabanci
University had this to say: "The official response of the Turkish government
on this matter has practically been memorized. Conferences on the Armenian
question have been organized for years in this country. All of them have
been one sided; historians that criticized freely were never invited. There
is no need for Professor Halacoglu to "re-enlighten" us on his views."

Retired diplomat Elekdag: Goal of conference is to stain Turkey

Retired diplomat and Republican People's (CHP) Party MP Sukru Elekdag had
these strong words for the conference organizers: "There is a desire to
broadcast Armenian propoganda. No one was invited to speak about history in
an objective and honest way (nogmaals, dat betekent in turkije: op de door de Turkse overheid voorgeschreven manier). It is very sad that a meeting whose objective
is to stain Turkey is being held at Bosphorus University."
[edit]
[size=1]Edit:[/size]
[size=1]After edit by Joriske on 24-05-2005 at 09:14
Reason:
--------------------------------

Het Turkse geschiedkundige "establishment" is in rep en roer omdat enkele Turkse universiteiten hebben besloten de Armeense Genocide nu een keer te bespreken zonder de bemoeienis van "regeringshistorici", die hen telkens als ze "uit de schreef gaan" beschuldigen van "verraad" : Eens zien wat er gebeurt als vertegenwoordigers van de Turkse overheid zich eens niet bemoeien met het werk van onafhankelijke Turkse wetenschappers. De leden van het establishment zijn er in ieder geval niet gerust in, ze zijn als de dood voor de mogelijkheid dat de Turkse bevolking de "andere kant" van het verhaal zou horen. Of dat ze na 90 jaar propaganda eindelijk aan echt geschiedkundig werk zullen moeten doen.

Citaat:
Hürriyetim
23.05.2005
War of words before conference on Armenians has even begun
http://www.hurriyetim.com.tr/haber/0...~580682,00.asp
Professor Ilber Ortayli (left) and Murat Belge

Sefa Kaplan
A conference to be held between May 25-27 at Bosphorus University is
sparking arguments before it has even started. The conference, organized by
the Bosphorus, Bilgi, and Sabanci Universities, is entitled "Ottoman
Armenians During the Collapse of the Empire: Scholarly Responsibility and
Problems with Democracy," and is expected to attract wide participation.
The sharpest criticism so far of the conference has come from Professor
Ilber Ortayli of Galatasaray University, who has said:

The same old team of people

"The people invited are the same ones who are always invited. There is no
way the issues can be argued healthily." ("Healthily" betekent hier: op de door de Turkse overheid voorgeschreven manier) Ortayli went on, "Maybe they
couldn't invite Professor Yusuf Halacoglu (embattled Turkish professor
recently accused by a Swiss prosecutor of violating Swiss law by denying the
Armenian genocide), by they should have invited retired diplomat Gunduz
Aktan for his knowledge of law....In this country, there is democracy,
everyone can do what they want. Everyone can account for their actions. My
views on this matter are clear."

Professor Yusuf Halacoglu (hoofd van de aan de Turkse overheid gebonden Turkish Historical Society) also had criticisms for the upcoming conference:
"They have invited people who will echo the views of the Armenian side. Why
haven't they invited me? If they see me as representing the official view on
the matter, they must be defending the diaspora view of things."

Professor Berktay of Sabanci University: No need for Halacoglu to
"re-enlighten" us

In answer to much of the criticism, Professor Halil Berktay of Sabanci
University had this to say: "The official response of the Turkish government
on this matter has practically been memorized. Conferences on the Armenian
question have been organized for years in this country. All of them have
been one sided; historians that criticized freely were never invited. There
is no need for Professor Halacoglu to "re-enlighten" us on his views."

Retired diplomat Elekdag: Goal of conference is to stain Turkey

Retired diplomat and Republican People's (CHP) Party MP Sukru Elekdag had
these strong words for the conference organizers: "There is a desire to
broadcast Armenian propoganda. No one was invited to speak about history in
an objective and honest way (nogmaals, dat betekent in turkije: op de door de Turkse overheid voorgeschreven manier). It is very sad that a meeting whose objective
is to stain Turkey is being held at Bosphorus University."
[/size]

[size=1]Edit:[/size]
[size=1]After edit by Joriske on 24-05-2005 at 09:13
Reason:
--------------------------------

Het Turkse geschiedkundige "establishment" is in rep en roer omdat enkele Turkse universiteiten hebben besloten de Armeense Genocide nu een keer te bespreken zonder de bemoeienis van "regeringshistorici", die hen telkens als ze "uit de schreef gaan" beschuldigen van "verraad" : Eens zien wat er gebeurt als vertegenwoordigers van de Turkse overheid zich eens niet bemoeien met het werk van onafhankelijke Turkse wetenschappers. De leden van het establishment zijn er in ieder geval niet gerust in, ze zijn als de dood voor de mogelijkheid dat de Turkse bevolking de "andere kant" van het verhaal zou horen.

Citaat:
Hürriyetim
23.05.2005
War of words before conference on Armenians has even begun
http://www.hurriyetim.com.tr/haber/0...~580682,00.asp
Professor Ilber Ortayli (left) and Murat Belge

Sefa Kaplan
A conference to be held between May 25-27 at Bosphorus University is
sparking arguments before it has even started. The conference, organized by
the Bosphorus, Bilgi, and Sabanci Universities, is entitled "Ottoman
Armenians During the Collapse of the Empire: Scholarly Responsibility and
Problems with Democracy," and is expected to attract wide participation.
The sharpest criticism so far of the conference has come from Professor
Ilber Ortayli of Galatasaray University, who has said:

The same old team of people

"The people invited are the same ones who are always invited. There is no
way the issues can be argued healthily." ("Healthily" betekent hier: op de door de Turkse overheid voorgeschreven manier) Ortayli went on, "Maybe they
couldn't invite Professor Yusuf Halacoglu (embattled Turkish professor
recently accused by a Swiss prosecutor of violating Swiss law by denying the
Armenian genocide), by they should have invited retired diplomat Gunduz
Aktan for his knowledge of law....In this country, there is democracy,
everyone can do what they want. Everyone can account for their actions. My
views on this matter are clear."

Professor Yusuf Halacoglu (hoofd van de aan de Turkse overheid gebonden Turkish Historical Society) also had criticisms for the upcoming conference:
"They have invited people who will echo the views of the Armenian side. Why
haven't they invited me? If they see me as representing the official view on
the matter, they must be defending the diaspora view of things."

Professor Berktay of Sabanci University: No need for Halacoglu to
"re-enlighten" us

In answer to much of the criticism, Professor Halil Berktay of Sabanci
University had this to say: "The official response of the Turkish government
on this matter has practically been memorized. Conferences on the Armenian
question have been organized for years in this country. All of them have
been one sided; historians that criticized freely were never invited. There
is no need for Professor Halacoglu to "re-enlighten" us on his views."

Retired diplomat Elekdag: Goal of conference is to stain Turkey

Retired diplomat and Republican People's (CHP) Party MP Sukru Elekdag had
these strong words for the conference organizers: "There is a desire to
broadcast Armenian propoganda. No one was invited to speak about history in
an objective and honest way (nogmaals, dat betekent in turkije: op de door de Turkse overheid voorgeschreven manier). It is very sad that a meeting whose objective
is to stain Turkey is being held at Bosphorus University."
[/size]

[size=1]Edit:[/size]
[size=1]After edit by Joriske on 24-05-2005 at 09:07
Reason:
--------------------------------

Het Turkse geschiedkundige "establishment" is in rep en roer omdat enkele Turkse universiteiten hebben besloten de Armeense Genocide nu een keer te bespreken zonder de bemoeienis van "regeringshistorici", die hen telkens als ze "uit de schreef gaan" beschuldigen van "verraad" : Eens zien wat er gebeurt als vertegenwoordigers van de Turkse overheid zich eens niet bemoeien met het werk van onafhankelijke Turkse wetenschappers. De leden van het establishment zijn er in ieder geval niet gerust in, ze zijn als de dood voor de mogelijkheid dat de Turkse bevolking de "andere kant" van het verhaal zou horen.

Citaat:
Hürriyetim
23.05.2005
War of words before conference on Armenians has even begun
http://www.hurriyetim.com.tr/haber/0...~580682,00.asp
Professor Ilber Ortayli (left) and Murat Belge

Sefa Kaplan
A conference to be held between May 25-27 at Bosphorus University is
sparking arguments before it has even started. The conference, organized by
the Bosphorus, Bilgi, and Sabanci Universities, is entitled "Ottoman
Armenians During the Collapse of the Empire: Scholarly Responsibility and
Problems with Democracy," and is expected to attract wide participation.
The sharpest criticism so far of the conference has come from Professor
Ilber Ortayli of Galatasaray University, who has said:

The same old team of people

"The people invited are the same ones who are always invited. There is no
way the issues can be argued healthily." ("Healthily" betekent hier: op de door de Turkse overheid voorgeschreven manier) Ortayli went on, "Maybe they
couldn't invite Professor Yusuf Halacoglu (embattled Turkish professor
recently accused by a Swiss prosecutor of violating Swiss law by denying the
Armenian genocide), by they should have invited retired diplomat Gunduz
Aktan for his knowledge of law....In this country, there is democracy,
everyone can do what they want. Everyone can account for their actions. My
views on this matter are clear."

Professor Yusuf Halacoglu also had criticisms for the upcoming conference:
"They have invited people who will echo the views of the Armenian side. Why
haven't they invited me? If they see me as representing the official view on
the matter, they must be defending the diaspora view of things."

Professor Berktay of Sabanci University: No need for Halacoglu to
"re-enlighten" us

In answer to much of the criticism, Professor Halil Berktay of Sabanci
University had this to say: "The official response of the Turkish government
on this matter has practically been memorized. Conferences on the Armenian
question have been organized for years in this country. All of them have
been one sided; historians that criticized freely were never invited. There
is no need for Professor Halacoglu to "re-enlighten" us on his views."

Retired diplomat Elekdag: Goal of conference is to stain Turkey

Retired diplomat and Republican People's (CHP) Party MP Sukru Elekdag had
these strong words for the conference organizers: "There is a desire to
broadcast Armenian propoganda. No one was invited to speak about history in
an objective and honest way (nogmaals, dat betekent in turkije: op de door de Turkse overheid voorgeschreven manier). It is very sad that a meeting whose objective
is to stain Turkey is being held at Bosphorus University."
[/size]


[size=1]Before any edits, post was:
--------------------------------

Het Turkse geschiedkundige "establishment" is in rep en roer omdat enkele Turkse universiteiten hebben besloten de Armeense Genocide nu een keer te bespreken zonder de bemoeienis van "regeringshistorici", die hen telkens als ze "uit de schreef gaan" beschuldigen van "verraad" : Eens zien wat er gebeurt als vertegenwoordigers van de Turkse overheid zich eens niet bemoeien met het werk van onafhankelijke Turkse wetenschappers. De leden van het establishment zijn er in ieder geval niet gerust in:

Citaat:
Hürriyetim
23.05.2005
War of words before conference on Armenians has even begun
http://www.hurriyetim.com.tr/haber/0...~580682,00.asp
Professor Ilber Ortayli (left) and Murat Belge

Sefa Kaplan
A conference to be held between May 25-27 at Bosphorus University is
sparking arguments before it has even started. The conference, organized by
the Bosphorus, Bilgi, and Sabanci Universities, is entitled "Ottoman
Armenians During the Collapse of the Empire: Scholarly Responsibility and
Problems with Democracy," and is expected to attract wide participation.
The sharpest criticism so far of the conference has come from Professor
Ilber Ortayli of Galatasaray University, who has said:

The same old team of people

"The people invited are the same ones who are always invited. There is no
way the issues can be argued healthily." ("Healthily" betekent hier: op de door de Turkse overheid voorgeschreven manier) Ortayli went on, "Maybe they
couldn't invite Professor Yusuf Halacoglu (embattled Turkish professor
recently accused by a Swiss prosecutor of violating Swiss law by denying the
Armenian genocide), by they should have invited retired diplomat Gunduz
Aktan for his knowledge of law....In this country, there is democracy,
everyone can do what they want. Everyone can account for their actions. My
views on this matter are clear."

Professor Yusuf Halacoglu also had criticisms for the upcoming conference:
"They have invited people who will echo the views of the Armenian side. Why
haven't they invited me? If they see me as representing the official view on
the matter, they must be defending the diaspora view of things."

Professor Berktay of Sabanci University: No need for Halacoglu to
"re-enlighten" us

In answer to much of the criticism, Professor Halil Berktay of Sabanci
University had this to say: "The official response of the Turkish government
on this matter has practically been memorized. Conferences on the Armenian
question have been organized for years in this country. All of them have
been one sided; historians that criticized freely were never invited. There
is no need for Professor Halacoglu to "re-enlighten" us on his views."

Retired diplomat Elekdag: Goal of conference is to stain Turkey

Retired diplomat and Republican People's (CHP) Party MP Sukru Elekdag had
these strong words for the conference organizers: "There is a desire to
broadcast Armenian propoganda. No one was invited to speak about history in
an objective and honest way (nogmaals, dat betekent in turkije: op de door de Turkse overheid voorgeschreven manier). It is very sad that a meeting whose objective
is to stain Turkey is being held at Bosphorus University."
[/size]
[/edit]
__________________
"January 15, 1916 - To the Government of Aleppo - We are informed that certain orphanages which have opened also admitted the children of the Armenians. [...]the Government will view the feeding of such children or any effort to prolong their lives as an act completely opposite to its purpose, since it regards the survival of these children as detrimental. - Minister of the Interior, TALAAT."

Laatst gewijzigd door Joriske : 24 mei 2005 om 08:14.
Joriske is offline   Met citaat antwoorden
Oud 24 mei 2005, 13:21   #364
Joriske
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Interessant materiaal op :
http://ermeni.org/english/vdadrian_harvard.htm

On November 21, 1918, in the [Ottoman] senate, the most remarkable revelation was made by another senator, Resid Akif. This man was an Ottoman statesman, and on that day he made this declaration. He said, "I was a member of the first postwar Ottoman government, and one day in my office, I came across two types of documents. One was the official order of the interior ministry, Talaat, ordering the deportation of the Armenians, in which - and the Turks are using these secret telegrams now - in which Talaat is telling his subordinates, "Protect the Armenian deportee convoys. Give them olives and bread." Et cetera, et cetera.

But parallel to this, an informal order goes out from Constantinople, issued not by any government agency but what sociologists call "informal authority," namely the Central Committee of the Ittihad party, i.e. CUP. He says "The order was simple. As soon as the Armenian convoys leave their villages and towns and cities, proceed with the execution of the mission," and Akif Pasha says the mission was for these criminals to attack the convoys and massacre the population. This is the testimony of Akif Pasha, a high-ranking and distinguished Ottoman statesman.
__________________
"January 15, 1916 - To the Government of Aleppo - We are informed that certain orphanages which have opened also admitted the children of the Armenians. [...]the Government will view the feeding of such children or any effort to prolong their lives as an act completely opposite to its purpose, since it regards the survival of these children as detrimental. - Minister of the Interior, TALAAT."
Joriske is offline   Met citaat antwoorden
Oud 24 mei 2005, 21:38   #365
Joriske
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Locatie: 't Stad
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Let ook op de gelijkenissen tussen de beweringen van Turk4Ever en de beweringen op deze negationistische site omtrent de Holocaust:

(Opgelet: dit wordt slechts gepost ter illustratie, het waarheidsgehalte van deze quote is gelijk aan nul)
Citaat:
"Holocaust Myth 101"

This English document comes in eight parts. It is the original document on which the following translations are based. It summarizes the following eight Revisionist claims, broadly sketched:

PART I - The Holocaust is useful postwar propaganda that started as a systematic, insidious campaign during World War II as one of the tactics employed by moneyed interests to rally the troops and engage the world, specifically America, in what turned out to be, essentially, a fratricidal war.
PART II - There is no proof that the Holocaust, as depicted by the Holocaust Promotion Lobby and the highly politicized Hollywood industry, actually occurred.
PART III - The numbers of "Holocaust" victims are irresponsibly exaggerated.
PART IV - Official state policy towards the Jews in the Third Reich was emigration, not extermination.
PART V - Not a single document has been found with Hitler's signature ordering the extermination of the Jews.
PART VI - Zyklon B was a fumigant. It wasn't a practical agent for mass murder.
PART VII - Zyklon B was highly toxic. This being so, it would have been foolish and counterproductive to endanger Third Reich personnel engaged in allegedly pulling bodies from the execution chambers shortly after they were "gassed."
PART VIII - American execution expert, Fred Leuchter, delivered a scientific break-through in proving that the so-called gas chambers at Auschwitz could not have been used for their alleged purpose."
__________________
"January 15, 1916 - To the Government of Aleppo - We are informed that certain orphanages which have opened also admitted the children of the Armenians. [...]the Government will view the feeding of such children or any effort to prolong their lives as an act completely opposite to its purpose, since it regards the survival of these children as detrimental. - Minister of the Interior, TALAAT."
Joriske is offline   Met citaat antwoorden
Oud 2 augustus 2025, 09:06   #366
Vlad
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De culturele genocide gaat onverminderd voort: Turkey Converts Ancient Armenian Cathedral of Ani into Mosque
__________________
7 OKTOBER WAS DE RODE LIJN!
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Oud 5 augustus 2025, 09:29   #367
Boduo
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Standaard Japanners

Japanners wereldwijd herdenken morgen de 80ste verjaardag van Hiroshima.
Japanse toeristen die naar Europa komen willen o.a. naar Brussel om het atomium te zien...
Wat gaat er om in de hoofden van die mensen als ze dat zien ?
Er zijn nog enkele overlevenden. En van hen sprak 10 jaar geleden voor de algemene vergadering v.d. UNO. Het was er muisstil...

Laatst gewijzigd door Boduo : 5 augustus 2025 om 09:31.
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