Evaluatie getuigen Pentagon

[atmosphere]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Gun

Nope, I don't buy this

Weet je, leg me eens een beetje gedetailleerder uit wat het NIST eigenlijk allemaal weet te zeggen, wat vind je trouwens van de intro?

Juist

Over welk NIST rapport spreek je , die over de torens of die van over WTC 7 ?

Wat betreft de torens: ze ondersteunen de pancake collapse niet en beweren ook niet dat de branden hebben gezorgt voor het smelten van staal .
Staal is door vuur verzwakt en gaan uitzetten en inkrimpen bij afkoeling ( in het geval van WTC2). Belangrijkste oorzaak van collapses zijn de plane impacts .
Natuurlijk gaat dat nog veel verder in detail

[atmosphere]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Gun

Laat ze hier dan eens het rijtje passeren ... één voor één of allemaal samen, jij mag kiezen ...

Juist, een verhaal

Aha, jij gelooft het officiële verhaal dus niet

Wat wil hier nu eigenlijk duidelijk maken?

Dat er veel te zwart-wordt geredeneerd

[Svennies]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door atmosphere

Over welk NIST rapport spreek je , die over de torens of die van over WTC 7 ?

Wat betreft de torens: ze ondersteunen de pancake collapse niet en beweren ook niet dat de branden hebben gezorgt voor het smelten van staal .
Staal is door vuur verzwakt en gaan uitzetten en inkrimpen bij afkoeling ( in het geval van WTC2). Belangrijkste oorzaak van collapses zijn de plane impacts .
Natuurlijk gaat dat nog veel verder in detail

Ach zo ,leg mij maar eens die mate van uitzetten én inkrimpen uit,en ook hoe dit een collapse tot gevolg kan hebben bij een gewone koolwaterstofbrand....

Voor zover ik wéét heeft staal één geweldige eigenschap die U volkomen vreemd is....

Het herwint namelijk zijn sterkte bij een afkoelingsproces....

[parcifal]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Gun

Wauw 1 (ÉÉN) getuige?

Waar is de massa?

Waar blijven die 100-den?

Er zijn er meer. Jij weet het, ik weet het.
Begin met 1 te debunken, daarna volgen de andere.

Al die honderden, als je wil.

[Gun]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door parcifal

Er zijn er meer. Jij weet het, ik weet het.
Begin met 1 te debunken, daarna volgen de andere.

Al die honderden, als je wil.

Shoot, ik wil hier minimum 100 namen zien

[Gun]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door atmosphere

Over welk NIST rapport spreek je , die over de torens of die van over WTC 7 ?

Wat betreft de torens: ze ondersteunen de pancake collapse niet en beweren ook niet dat de branden hebben gezorgt voor het smelten van staal .
Staal is door vuur verzwakt en gaan uitzetten en inkrimpen bij afkoeling ( in het geval van WTC2). Belangrijkste oorzaak van collapses zijn de plane impacts .
Natuurlijk gaat dat nog veel verder in detail

Ik heb me vooral gefocussed op de NIST raporten van WTC 1 & 2,

Staal is door vuur verzwakt?
De allereerste keer in de geschiedenis en op 1 dag onmiddelijk 3 gebouwen waarvan één zonder impact?

Wat vind je van de intro?

[parcifal]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Gun

Shoot, ik wil hier minimum 100 namen zien

Een paar hier al, van A tot en met E..
Van sommigen zijn er meer dan 1 getuigenis.

Wil je meer? ik heb nog F tot en met Z klaarzitten.

Pentagon Witness Accounts

[C] Confirmed date witness gave his/her testimony
[A] Date testimony appeared in article or other medium

Steve Anderson
0/02/01 [C]
his office on the 19th floor of the USA TODAY building in Arlington, with a view of Arlington Cemetery, Crystal City, the Pentagon, National Airport and the Potomac River. Shortly after watching the second tragedy, I heard jet engines pass our building, which, being so close to the airport is very common. But I thought the airport was closed. I figured it was a plane coming in for landing. A few moments later, as I was looking down at my desk, the plane caught my eye. It didn't register at first. I thought to myself that I couldn't believe the pilot was flying so low. Then it dawned on me what was about to happen. I watched in horror as the plane flew at treetop level, banked slightly to the left, drug it's wing along the ground and slammed into the west wall of the Pentagon exploding into a giant orange fireball. Then black smoke. Then white smoke.

Deb Anlauf
9/12/01 [A]
14th-floor room in the Sheraton National Hotel in Arlington Anlauf was watching TV coverage of the Trade Center burning shortly before 9:30 a.m. when she decided to return to her 14th-floor room from another part of the hotel. Once in her room, she heard a "loud roar" and looked out the window to see what was going on. "Suddenly I saw this plane right outside my window," Anlauf said during a telephone interview from her hotel room this morning. "You felt like you could touch it; it was that close. It was just incredible. "Then it shot straight across from where we are and flew right into the Pentagon. It was just this huge fireball that crashed into the wall (of the Pentagon). When it hit, the whole hotel shook."

Stuart Artman
Lt. Col.
9/15/01 [A]
walking near the Washington Monument
"I saw the plane that hit the Pentagon. It went behind some trees." The Ledger (Lakeland, FL) (Lexis-Nexis - Joy Murphy)
Ralph Banton 9/11/01 [C] on a house porch a little more than a mile away from the Pentagon "It sounded like it was jetting instead of slowing down."

David Battle
9/12/01 [A]
standing outside the Pentagon just about to enter "It was coming down head first," he said. "And when the impact hit, the cars and everything were just shaking."

Gary Bauer
11/01 [C]
driving into Washington DC “I was in a massive traffic jam, hadn’t moved more than a hundred yards in twenty minutes. My office called to tell me about the first plane in New York, the reaction was ‘horrible accident.’ And then they called about the second plane, and clearly that meant something much worse was going on. It was only then that I really noticed where I was in that traffic jam. I was going past the Pentagon, really inching a yard or so every couple of minutes. I had just passed the closest place the Pentagon is to the exit on 395 . . . when all of a sudden I heard the roar of a jet engine. I looked at the woman sitting in the car next to me. She had this startled look on her face. We were all thinking the same thing. We looked out the front of our windows to try to see the plane, and it wasn’t until a few seconds later that we realized the jet was coming up behind us on that major highway. And it veered to the right into the Pentagon. The blast literally rocked all of our cars. It was an incredible moment.

Richard Benedetto
USA TODAY reporter
9/12/01 [A]
"Then the plane flew right over my head. I said to myself, boy, that plane is going awfully fast. That plane is going to crash .... The noise was like an artillery shell, not an explosion like a bomb"

Richard Benedetto
5/22/02 [C]
driving to work northbound on the highway that runs parallel to the Pentagon "I heard an airplane. A very loud airplane. ... I heard the airplane coming from behind me. ... So I looked up, and I saw this airplane coming, heading straight down toward the ground. It was an American Airlines airplane, I could see it very clearly. ... The plane went down and for a split second it was out of my line of vision because there was a bridge there and a hill. ... I didn't actually see the impact... I didn't see any flaps, it looked like the plane was just in a normal flying mode but heading straight down, sharply down. It was straight. No flopping. It was going pretty straight. ... The only thing we saw on the ground outside there was a piece of a - the tail of a lamp post."

Sean Boger
ATC and Pentagon tower chief
11/16/01 [A]
in the Pentagon control tower "I just looked up and I saw the big nose and the wings of the aircraft coming right at us and I just watched it hit the building. It exploded. I fell to the ground and covered my head. I could actually hear the metal going through the building."

Donald R. Bouchoux
9/20/01 [A]
driving west from Tysons Corner on Washington Boulevard (Route 27) "At 9:40 a.m. I was driving down Washington Boulevard (Route 27) along the side of the Pentagon when the aircraft crossed about 200 yards in front of me and impacted the side of the building. There was an enormous fireball, followed about two seconds later by debris raining down. The car moved about a foot to the right when the shock wave hit. I had what must have been an emergency oxygen bottle from the airplane go flying down across the front of my Explorer and then a second piece of jagged metal come down on the right side of the car."

Pam Bradley
9/13/01 [A]
on a bridge in a car on the way to work in DC I work in Washington DC area, and was on my way to work, in my car, sitting on a bridge, and saw the plane hit the Pentagon. I am in a complete state of shock.

Defense Protective Service officer
9/28/01 [A]
manning the guard booth at the Mall Entrance to the building "I saw the plane at the Navy Annex area," he said. "I knew it was going to strike the building because it was very, very low -- at the height of the street lights. It knocked a couple down." The plane would have been seconds from impact -- the annex is only a few hundred yards from the Pentagon. He said he heard the plane "power-up" just before it struck the Pentagon. "As soon as it struck the building I just called in an attack, because I knew it couldn't be accidental," Bright said. He jumped into his police cruiser and headed to the area.


Omar Campo
9/12/01 [A]
cutting the grass on the other side of the road
"It was a passenger plane. I think an American Airways plane," Mr Campo said. "I was cutting the grass and it came in screaming over my head. I felt the impact. The whole ground shook and the whole area was full of fire."

Joseph Candelario
Captain
outside, across the river
He was first alerted that the day was drastically changing when one of the medics told him that a plane hit the World Trade Center. While watching the tower burn, another plane hit the second tower. “Thinking that this was a very serious terrorist attack, I went outside to the river to take a break. As I was looking across the river towards the direction of the Pentagon, I noticed a large aircraft flying low towards the White House. This aircraft then made a sharp turn and flew towards the Pentagon and seconds later crashed into it.

Susan Carroll
9/11/02 [A]
platform high above Reagan waiting for a Metro
"I was standing on the platform high above the [Washington Reagan] airport awaiting a Metro subway train to my office in the heart of the district, on Constitution Avenue, admiring the lovely blue skies when I saw the plane hit and the fireball and explosion at the Pentagon. Jacksonville.com

James R. Cissell
9/12/01 [A]
listening to his car radio and the news of the planes slamming into the World Trade Center while sitting in traffic on Interstate 110 by the Pentagon
''Out of my peripheral vision, I saw this plane coming in and it was low - and getting lower. ''If you couldn't touch it from standing on the highway, you could by standing on your car.'' ''I thought, 'This isn't really happening. That is a big plane.' Then I saw the faces of some of the passengers on board,'' Cissell said. ''I remember thinking, 'The World Trade Center was just the beginning, there's going to be more.' '' He remembers the helipad the plane flew over before smacking into the Pentagon was close enough to him that ''I could have thrown a baseball at it and hit it.'' While he remembers seeing the crash, Cissell remembers none of the sounds. ''It came in in a perfectly straight line,'' he said. ''It didn't slow down. I want to say it accelerated. It just shot straight in.''

Dennis Clem
"There was a commercial airliner that said American Airliners over the side of it flying at just above treetop height at full speed headed for the Pentagon."

Allen Cleveland
9/11/01 [C]
on a Metro train just pulling into the National Airport Station
"I was just pulling in on the subway station just at National Airport. I just happened to look over - actually my back was facing in the direction of the Pentagon - I looked to the right of the train as we were coming into the station, and noticed a jet flying in real low, about a mid-sized passenger jet flying in. I know it was silver, that's the only thing I know."

Allen Cleveland
10/28/01 [C]
Soon after the crash(Within 30 seconds of the crash) I witnessed a military cargo plane(Possibly a C130) fly over the crash site and circle the mushroom cloud. My brother inlaw also witnessed the same plane following the jet while he was on the HOV lanes in Springfield. He said that he saw a jetliner flying low over the tree tops near Seminary RD in Springfield, VA. and soon afterwards a military plane was seen flying right behind it. I think this was also a reason for the false threat of another plane about to crash which caused rescuers to have to evacuate for a short time after the initial crash.

Scott P. Cook
fifth floor of the Portals building, at 1280 Maryland Avenue SW, Washington DC, the southernmost building at the end of 14th Street, right at the Tidal Basin and Maine Avenue
"We didn’t know what kind of plane had hit the Pentagon, or where it had hit. Later, we were told that it was a 757 out of Dulles, which had come up the river in back of our building, turned sharply over the Capitol, ran past the White House and the Washington Monument, up the river to Rosslyn, then dropped to treetop level and ran down Washington Boulevard to the Pentagon. I cannot fathom why neither myself nor Ray, a former Air Force officer, missed a big 757, going 400 miles an hour, as it crossed in front of our window in its last 10 seconds of flight. ... As we watched the black plume gather strength, less than a minute after the explosion, we saw an odd sight that no one else has yet commented on. Directly in back of the plume, which would place it almost due west from our office, a four-engine propeller plane, which Ray later said resembled a C-130, started a steep decent towards the Pentagon. It was coming from an odd direction (planes don’t go east-west in the area), and it was descending at a much steeper angle than most aircraft. Trailing a thin, diffuse black trail from its engines, the plane reached the Pentagon at a low altitude and made a sharp left turn, passing just north of the plume, and headed straight for the White House. All the while, I was sort of talking at it: "Who the hell are you? Where are you going? You’re not headed for downtown!" Ray and Verle watched it with me, and I was convinced it was another attack. But right over the tidal basin, at an altitude of less than 1000 feet, it made another sharp left turn to the north and climbed rapidly. Soon it was gone, leaving only the thin black trail.

Dan Creed
9/06/02 [A]
stopped in a car next to the Navy Annex
"It was no more than 30 feet off the ground, and it was screaming. It was just screaming. It was nothing more than a guided missile at that point. I can still see the plane. I can still see it right now. It's just the most frightening thing in the world, going full speed, going full throttle, its wheels up."

Steve DeChiaro
8/01/02 [A]
"But when I looked at the site, my brain could not resolve the fact that it was a plane because it only seemed like a small hole in the building," he said. "No tail. No wings. No nothing."

Kim Dent
9/11/01[C]
looking out of the window of an office in the Navy Annex
"We saw the shadow of a plane. We heard the engine. We all said, 'That plane is flying kind of close.' "

Michael DiPaula
9/08/02 [A]
walking outside to a construction trailer "It sounded like a missile," DiPaula recalls. "There were three loud thump, thump, thumps. You could hear the metal cracking and crinkling, and the explosion."

Mike Dobbs
Marine Cmdr.
9/11/01 [C]
standing on one of the upper levels of the outer ring of the Pentagon looking out the window
"It was an American airlines airliner. I was looking out the window and saw it come right over the Navy annex at a slow angle. It looked to me to be on a zero-to-zero course. It seemed to be almost coming in in slow motion. I didn't actually feel it hit, but I saw it and then we all started running."

Mike Dobbs
9/13/01 [A]
"... we saw a plane coming toward us, for about 10 seconds ... It was like watching a train wreck. I was mesmerized. ... At first I thought it was trying to crash land, but it was coming in so deliberately, so level... Everyone said there was a deafening explosion, but with the adrenaline, we didn't hear it."

Daryl Donley
9/12/01 [A]
presumably on road in front of Pentagon
"It just was amazingly precise," Daryl Donley, another commuter, said of the plane's impact. "It completely disappeared into the Pentagon."

Daryl Donley
9/08/02 [A] "I could see the windows. I saw the entire plane and then saw it fly right into the Pentagon."

Bob Dubill
9/19/02 [A]
driving past the Pentagon on his way to work at USA Today Every morning for years Bob Dubill drove past the Pentagon on his way to work at USA Today. He was passing the building the morning of Sept. 11, 2001, when he saw a jetliner fly over the roadway. It filled his field of vision. The jet was 40-feet off the ground speeding toward the Pentagon.
“The wheels were up and I knew that this plane was not heading for National Airport,” he said. “This plane was going to slam into the Pentagon. I steeled myself for the explosion.”

Bobby Eberle
9/12/01 [C]
on the road in front of the Pentagon
We set out in the car and immediately turned on the news radio to follow what was happening in New York City. After fifteen minutes into our trip, a new report came over the radio stating that a second aircraft (another passenger airliner) had struck the World Trade Center. ... As we slowly crept along in traffic at about 9:30 am, we rounded a bend and had the Pentagon in our sites -- right in front of us. ... Riding in a convertable with the top down, I then heard a tremendously loud noise from behind me and to my left. I looked back and saw a jet airliner flying very low and very fast. It's amazing what can run through your mind in just a matter of seconds. As a pilot, I can't help but look at an airplane and think about airplane topics. What I saw sent a shiver down my spine as I realized something was not right. The aircraft was so very low -- as an aircraft would be on its final approach to an airport. However, if you have watched any aircraft come in for a landing, even though the aircraft is descending, it is angled up slightly. This aircraft was angled downward. In addition, landing gear would also be visible on a aircraft so low and so near landing. This aircraft had its landing gear retracted. Finally, an aircraft on final approach is traveling rather slowly. This aircraft sped by very loudly an very quickly. All of this flashed in my mind as the aircraft passed from behind my left shoulder to in front of me. It was then that the other events of the morning crystallized in the realization that tragedy was about to occur. With all of these images spinning in my head, the only words that came out of my mouth were "Oh no!" With that, the airliner crashed into the Pentagon and exploded.

Steve Eiden
2001
driving on the Highway 95 loop in the area of the Pentagon Steve Eiden, a truck driver, had picked up his cargo that Tuesday
morning in Williamsburg, Va., and was en route to New York City and
witnessed the aftermath.
While on the road, he heard radio reports that a plane had crashed into the World Trade Center. He was quoted in The Baxter Bulletin a few days later:
"I thought, this sounds like an Orson Welles kind of deal." He took the Highway 95 loop in the area of the Pentagon and thought it odd to see a plane in restricted airspace, thinking to himself it was odd that it was flying so low. "You could almost see the people in the windows," he said as he watched the plane disappear behind a line of trees, followed by a tall plume of black smoke. Then he saw the Pentagon on fire, and an announcement came over the radio that the Pentagon had been hit. The Baxter Bulletin (Arkansas)
Penny Elgas north on I-395 to DC, "stuck in late morning rush hour traffic -- almost in front of the Pentagon" "For most of my drive I had been totally focused on my radio and was extremely aware of the events that were unfolding in New York. Even though the radio reporters were cautious, I was already convinced from the first strike that it was not just an unfortunate pilot error." "Traffic was at a standstill. I heard a rumble, looked out my driver's side window and realized that I was looking at the nose of an airplane coming straight at us from over the road (Columbia Pike) that runs perpendicular to the road I was on. The plane just appeared there- very low in the air, to the side of (and not much above) the CITGO gas station that I never knew was there. My first thought was 'Oh My God, this must be World War III!' "In that split second, my brain flooded with adrenaline and I watched everything play out in ultra slow motion, I saw the plane coming in slow motion toward my car and then it banked in the slightest turn in front of me, toward the heliport. In the nano-second that the plane was directly over the cars in front of my car, the plane seemed to be not more than 80 feet off the ground and about 4-5 car lengths in front of me. It was far enough in front of me that I saw the end of the wing closest to me and the underside of the other wing as that other wing rocked slightly toward the ground. I remember recognizing it as an American Airlines plane -- I could see the windows and the color stripes. And I remember thinking that it was just like planes in which I had flown many times but at that point it never occurred to me that this might be a plane with passengers." National Museum of American History website

Bruce Elliott
Colonel
9/12/01 [C]
about to board a shuttle van in a south parking lot "I looked to my left and saw the plane coming in," said Elliott, who watched it for several seconds. "It was banking and garnering speed. I felt it was headed for the Pentagon."

[atmosphere]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Gun

Ik heb me vooral gefocussed op de NIST raporten van WTC 1 & 2,

Staal is door vuur verzwakt?
De allereerste keer in de geschiedenis en op 1 dag onmiddelijk 3 gebouwen waarvan één zonder impact?

Wat vind je van de intro?

En ook de eerste keer dat er 2 grote vliegtuigen op hoge snelheid in enorme wolkenkrabbers vliegen .

De intro? bedoel je de inleiding ? Het bestaat namelijk uit heel veel onderdelen .

[atmosphere]

En alle FDR's hebben serienummers mijn beste,en wat geven ze bij géén van de 4 vliegtuigen vrij,juist de serienummers.....
Alle grotere vliegtuigen zowel commercieel als militair hebben FDR 's aan boord...

Het bewijst dus niets zolang men dit niet vrijgeeft kan het eender welk toestel zijn geweest,zowel militair als commercieel...

Zelfs al geven ze de serienummers vrij , het word toch niet geloofd door sommigen . Bovendien kun je die serienummers ook heel makkelijk faken ,dus dan zal dat zeker ook worden gedacht .

[Svennies]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door atmosphere

Zelfs al geven ze de serienummers vrij , het word toch niet geloofd door sommigen . Bovendien kun je die serienummers ook heel makkelijk faken ,dus dan zal dat zeker ook worden gedacht .

Die box wordt allereerst bij binnenkomst langs alle kanten op de PC ingescand mijn beste met serienummer en al, compleet met data en uur daarvan alvorens die wordt opengemaakt....

En de ruwe data van die recorder worden op nét zo'n wijze direkt in het systeem gezet....

Zoiets wordt trouwens bij elke vliegtuigramp gedaan....

nog nooit naar air crash investigations gekeken......

[Gun]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door parcifal

Een paar hier al, van A tot en met E..
Van sommigen zijn er meer dan 1 getuigenis.

Wil je meer? ik heb nog F tot en met Z klaarzitten.

Laat F tot Z maar komen, maar weet wel dat dit exact de getuigen zijn die ik heb geëvalueerd ...

# getuigenissen: 181
# getuigen: 152

't wordt zelfs hillarisch, je meldt zelfs deze die in mijn openingspost duidelijk als onbetrouwbare of vervalste verklaring worden geïdentificeerd

Dobbs, Mike

... Marine Corps officer Mike Dobbs was standing on one of the upper levels of the outer ring of the Pentagon looking out the window when he saw an American Airways 737 twin-engine airliner strike the building...
Mike Dobbs is Marine Corps officer én zijn relaas wordt in 3-de persoon verteld, geen citaat.

Dubill, Bob

… " (...) when he saw a jetliner fly over the roadway. It filled his field of vision. The jet was 40-feet off the ground speeding toward the Pentagon. The wheels were up …
Also Wednesday, Mr. Dubill was honored with an endowed scholarship in his name in the school of journalism and a bench/landscaping area on the St. Bonaventure campus. Both were funded by USAToday and its staff.
Every morning for years Bob Dubill drove past the Pentagon on his way to work at USA Today.
Bob Dubill was journalist en schreef ondermeer voor USAToday, een antiliberaal en neo-conservatief dagblad zoals bovenstaande fragmenten laten blijken. Zijn relaas wordt in 3-de persoon verteld, geen citaat. Hij specifieert niet in detail.

Maar vooral ...

Cook, Scott P.

Op de officiële websites was Cook, Scott P. zijn getuigenis het volgende:
… "It was a 757 out of Dulles, which had come up the river in back of our building …

Terwijl hij op zijn persoonlijke web-site (http://www.clothmonkey.com/91101.htm) het volgende meldt:
… "They just hit the Pentagon!" I turned. Rising up from the right center of the Pentagon’s mass was a gigantic spherical … We didn’t know what kind of plane had hit the Pentagon, or where it had hit. Later, we were told that it was a 757 out of Dulles, As we watched the black plume gather strength …

[Gun]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door atmosphere

En ook de eerste keer dat er 2 grote vliegtuigen op hoge snelheid in enorme wolkenkrabbers vliegen.

En WTC 7?

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door atmosphere

De intro? bedoel je de inleiding? Het bestaat namelijk uit heel veel onderdelen.

Ja, de intro

[Gun]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door parcifal

Een paar hier al, van A tot en met E..
Van sommigen zijn er meer dan 1 getuigenis.

Wil je meer? ik heb nog F tot en met Z klaarzitten.

4 groepen werden geïdentificeerd:

In groep 1 worden de getuigenissen ondergebracht die geen vliegtuig hebben gezien. De meesten waren werknemers die zich in het Pentagon bevonden en door de knal betrokken raakten.

In groep 2 worden de getuigenissen ondergebracht die melding maken van een vliegtuig zonder de grootte te vermelden. Er wordt enkel melding gemaakt van volgende woorden: Jet - Plane - Aircraft

In groep 3 worden de getuigenissen ondergebracht die melding maken van een klein vliegtuig. Er wordt melding gemaakt van volgende woorden: small aircraft - mid sized - small commercial aircraft - commuter jet

In groep 4 worden de getuigenissen ondergebracht die melding maken van een groot vliegtuig. Er wordt melding gemaakt van volgende woorden: jetliner – 767 - 757 - 737 - Airbus - Large American Airways passenger jet - big silver plane - commercial plane

Analyse van alle getuigenissen geeft volgend resultaat:
Groep 1: 66 getuigen 43%
Groep 2: 57 getuigen 38%
Groep 3: 8 getuigen 5%
Groep 4: 21 getuigen 14%

In de openingspost wordt dieper ingegaan op de 21 getuigen van groep 4 waar waarschijnlijk nog heel wat voer voor discussie is terug te vinden, 7 blijven onduidelijk wat staat voor 4,6% ... heel betrouwbaar

[Infowarrior]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door atmosphere

En ook de eerste keer dat er 2 grote vliegtuigen op hoge snelheid in enorme wolkenkrabbers vliegen .

De intro? bedoel je de inleiding ? Het bestaat namelijk uit heel veel onderdelen .

Jong, jong! En nog niet door hebben dat deze topic eigenlijk over het Pentagon gaat.

Voor alle andere ongerijmdheden kan je toch gewoon terecht op de 9/11 topic.

[Dixie]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Gun

[b][u]
In de openingspost wordt dieper ingegaan op de 21 getuigen van groep 4 waar waarschijnlijk nog heel wat voer voor discussie is terug te vinden, 7 blijven onduidelijk wat staat voor 4,6% ... heel betrouwbaar

een truthers berekening die kant noch wal raakt maar dan nog 4,6% geeft. De te 'vertrouwen' getuigen die een commercial liner in het pentagon zagen vliegen tegen de 0% die iets anders tegen het pentagon zagen vliegen en enorm verschil

[Gun]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Dixie

een truthers berekening die kant noch wal raakt maar dan nog 4,6% geeft. De te 'vertrouwen' getuigen die een commercial liner in het pentagon zagen vliegen tegen de 0% die iets anders tegen het pentagon zagen vliegen en enorm verschil

Get alive en lees de openingspost eens door ...

De 5% in groep 3 waar de getuigenissen worden ondergebracht die melding maken van een klein vliegtuig negeert u totaal. Er wordt melding gemaakt van volgende woorden: small aircraft - mid sized - small commercial aircraft - commuter jet

Toch geen Boeing?

… helicopter exploded …

… Tom Seibert : "We heard what sounded like a missile, then we heard a loud boom," said Tom Seibert, 33, a network engineer at the Pentagon. "We were sitting there and watching this thing from New York, and I said, you know, the next best target would be us. And five minutes later, boom."….

… From time spent on military aircraft as part of his job at the Pentagon, Will Jarvis (who graduated with a bachelor of applied science in 1987 while attending New College) knows what aviation fuel smells like. That smell was his only clue that a plane had crashed into the Pentagon, where he works as an operations research analyst for the Office of the Secretary of Defense. Jarvis, who was around the corner from the disaster, tried but failed to see the plane when he left the building. "There was just nothing left. It was incinerated. We couldn't see a tail or a wing or anything," …

… "The speed, the maneuverability, the way that he turned, we all thought in the radar room, all of us experienced air traffic controllers, that that was a military plane," says O'Brien - This must be a fighter. This must be one of our guys sent in, scrambled to patrol our capital, and to protect our president, and we sat back in our chairs and breathed for just a second," says O'Brien. But the plane continued to turn right until it had made a 360-degree maneuver. "We lost radar contact with that aircraft. And we waited. And we waited. And your heart is just beating out of your chest waiting to hear what's happened," says O'Brien. "And then the Washington National [Airport] controllers came over our speakers in our room and said, 'Dulles, hold all of our inbound traffic. The Pentagon's been hit." …

… I was convinced it was a missile. It came in so fast it sounded nothing like an airplane …

… There was no huge explosion, no huge rumbling on ground, it just went 'pfff'. It wasn't what I would have expected for a plane that was not much more than a football field away from me ...

… This is a hole in -- there was a punch-out. They suspect that this was where a part of the aircraft came through this hole, although I didn't see any evidence of the aircraft down there. (...) This pile here is all Pentagon metal. None of that is aircraft whatsoever. As you can see, they've punched a hole in here. This was punched by the rescue workers to clean it out. You can see this is the -- some of the unrenovated areas where the windows have blown out…

[Dixie]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Gun

't wordt zelfs hillarisch, je meldt zelfs deze die in mijn openingspost duidelijk als onbetrouwbare of vervalste verklaring worden geïdentificeerd

Dobbs, Mike

... Marine Corps officer Mike Dobbs was standing on one of the upper levels of the outer ring of the Pentagon looking out the window when he saw an American Airways 737 twin-engine airliner strike the building...
Mike Dobbs is Marine Corps officer én zijn relaas wordt in 3-de persoon verteld, geen citaat.

Mike Dobbs
Marine Cmdr.
9/11/01 [C]
standing on one of the upper levels of the outer ring of the Pentagon looking out the window
"It was an American airlines airliner. I was looking out the window and saw it come right over the Navy annex at a slow angle. It looked to me to be on a zero-to-zero course. It seemed to be almost coming in in slow motion. I didn't actually feel it hit, but I saw it and then we all started running."

Mike Dobbs
9/13/01 [A]
"... we saw a plane coming toward us, for about 10 seconds ... It was like watching a train wreck. I was mesmerized. ... At first I thought it was trying to crash land, but it was coming in so deliberately, so level... Everyone said there was a deafening explosion, but with the adrenaline, we didn't hear it."

wat 3de persoon????

[Dixie]

Bob Dubill
9/19/02 [A]
driving past the Pentagon on his way to work at USA Today Every morning for years Bob Dubill drove past the Pentagon on his way to work at USA Today. He was passing the building the morning of Sept. 11, 2001, when he saw a jetliner fly over the roadway. It filled his field of vision. The jet was 40-feet off the ground speeding toward the Pentagon.
“The wheels were up and I knew that this plane was not heading for National Airport,” he said. “This plane was going to slam into the Pentagon. I steeled myself for the explosion.”

weer die 3de persoon ?

[atmosphere]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Svennies

Ach zo ,leg mij maar eens die mate van uitzetten én inkrimpen uit,en ook hoe dit een collapse tot gevolg kan hebben bij een gewone koolwaterstofbrand....

Voor zover ik wéét heeft staal één geweldige eigenschap die U volkomen vreemd is....

Het herwint namelijk zijn sterkte bij een afkoelingsproces....

Dat hangt er vanaf hoe heet het geweest is . Boven de +/- 600 graden zal er sprake zijn van blijvende verandering , ook na afkoelen .

Een nadeel van staal is dat het uit gaat zetten bij verhoging van de temperatuur in relatief hoge mate .

[atmosphere]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Gun

Get alive en lees de openingspost eens door ...

De 5% in groep 3 waar de getuigenissen worden ondergebracht die melding maken van een klein vliegtuig negeert u totaal. Er wordt melding gemaakt van volgende woorden: small aircraft - mid sized - small commercial aircraft - commuter jet

Vanaf welke lokatie waren zij getuige? Het kan zo zijn dat ze het formaat verkeerd inschatte . Overigens klopt "small commercial aircraft nog redelijk, het was immers ook geen 747 .

… Tom Seibert : "We heard what sounded like a missile, then we heard a loud boom," said Tom Seibert, 33, a network engineer at the Pentagon. "We were sitting there and watching this thing from New York, and I said, you know, the next best target would be us. And five minutes later, boom."….

klonk als een raket , dat is een vergelijking . Hij zag helemaal geen raket.

… From time spent on military aircraft as part of his job at the Pentagon, Will Jarvis (who graduated with a bachelor of applied science in 1987 while attending New College) knows what aviation fuel smells like. That smell was his only clue that a plane had crashed into the Pentagon, where he works as an operations research analyst for the Office of the Secretary of Defense. Jarvis, who was around the corner from the disaster, tried but failed to see the plane when he left the building. "There was just nothing left. It was incinerated. We couldn't see a tail or a wing or anything," …

Logisch gezien de snelheid en frontale botsing met een zeer sterke muur . Mensen die het vliegtuig wel zagen crashen waren ook verbaasd dat er zo weinig van terug te zien was .

… "The speed, the maneuverability, the way that he turned, we all thought in the radar room, all of us experienced air traffic controllers, that that was a military plane," says O'Brien - This must be a fighter. This must be one of our guys sent in, scrambled to patrol our capital, and to protect our president, and we sat back in our chairs and breathed for just a second," says O'Brien. But the plane continued to turn right until it had made a 360-degree maneuver. "We lost radar contact with that aircraft. And we waited. And we waited. And your heart is just beating out of your chest waiting to hear what's happened," says O'Brien. "And then the Washington National [Airport] controllers came over our speakers in our room and said, 'Dulles, hold all of our inbound traffic. The Pentagon's been hit." … [/quote]

Weer een aanwijzing dat de kaper het toestel bestuurde zonder aan veiligheid te denken .

… I was convinced it was a missile. It came in so fast it sounded nothing like an airplane …

Aan de hand van het geluid was hij overtuigd dat het een raket was , denkt hij echter nog steeds dat het een raket was ?

… There was no huge explosion, no huge rumbling on ground, it just went 'pfff'. It wasn't what I would have expected for a plane that was not much more than a football field away from me ...

Deze persoon zag dus het vliegtuig heel goed !!

… This is a hole in -- there was a punch-out. They suspect that this was where a part of the aircraft came through this hole, although I didn't see any evidence of the aircraft down there. (...) This pile here is all Pentagon metal. None of that is aircraft whatsoever. As you can see, they've punched a hole in here. This was punched by the rescue workers to clean it out. You can see this is the -- some of the unrenovated areas where the windows have blown out…

Dit bevestigd weer de hoge mate van fragmentatie van het toestel .
Is er ooit eerder een dergelijk passagiers toestel met vergelijkbare snelheid op een zeer sterke muur gevlogen ? nee , dus kun je ook niet verwachten hetzelfde te zien als bij andere passenger aircraft crashes .