De grote 9/11 topic

[eti1777]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door atmosphere

[


De alternatieve versies barst van de rechtstreekse beschuldigingen , niet alleen vragen !!!!!
wie een schuldige aanwijst moet sceptisch bekeken worden , in dit geval het officiële verhaal en de alternatieve beschuldigingen .

Over wie heb je het hier precies?

[Akufen]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door 1207

dus als de Vs een visa uitdeelt en die persoon nadien in de VS dronken rondrijdt is dat ook een complot vd Vs overheid?

Steek misschien uw licht eens op ipv kromme vergelijking te maken:

http://www.nationalreview.com/mowbray/mowbray100902.asp

According to expert analyses of the visa-application forms of 15 of the 9/11 terrorists (the other four applications could not be obtained), all the applicants among the 15 reviewed should have been denied visas under then-existing law. Six separate experts who analyzed the simple, two-page forms came to the same conclusion: All of the visa applications they reviewed should have been denied on their face.

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door 1207

er waren geen explosieven in de torens.

Dat is uw mening, de bewijzen zijn er echter wel.

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door 1207

deze vraag stelt zich niet. Volgens de toenmalige stand van zaken kon met dat ook niet uitvoeren zonder medeweten vd duizenden werknemers in de torens.

Dat kon men wel, sterker nog, de uitgesproken plaats om explosieven te plaatsen was bereikbaar zonder dat iemand dat zou opmerken. Ook al meermaals besproken in deze draad.

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door 1207

dagelijks spelen miljoenen mensen wargames. wat bewijst dit nu?

U beseft toch dat het hier niet om computerspelletjes gaat?

In het geval van 9/11 en de bomaanslagen in Londen, willen die wargames heel veel zeggen. Omdat ze ofwel de exacte gebeurtenissen spiegelen, of ze zodanig storen dat de autoriteiten hun job niet konden doen.

http://www.daanspeak.com/USAUnderAttack07r.html

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door 1207

tot nader order is er geen bewijs dat deze stelling klopt. Ge weet wat ik doe met aannames zonder bewijs.
idem, geen bewijs aangaande schuld Akufen.

Het is niet omdat jij van toeten of blazen weet dat je het recht hebt om te beweren dat er geen bewijs is. Ligt uw gat en doe eens wat moeite ipv het kalf uit te hangen. Wat zit je hier eigenlijk te doen als het u allemaal niet interesseert en wanneer ontkennen het enige is wat in uw opkomt als het nieuw is voor u?
U sluit dan vervolgens uw post af waarin u mij durft beschuldigen van te gokken en te gissen, terwijl jij zelfs niet op zoek gaat naar feiten. Heel uw post is doordrongen van claims die nergens op rusten en dikwijls boekdelen spreken over uw kennis van heel de affaire. Dus laat uw claims achterwege aub, het zijn zwakke pogingen om uw beperkte kennis te verdoezelen.

Ik zal het nog eens pasten:

Pseudoskepticism (or pseudo-skepticism) is defined as thinking that claims to be Skeptical but is actually faith-based disbelief.

Stonewalled by the C.I.A.
Bush Opposes 9/11 Query Panel
Critics want 9/11 panel's full report on threats
What the September 11 commission hearings revealed
May 2000: Future Authors of 9/11 Report Produce John F. Kennedy Book Riddled with Errors
1992-January 1993: Future Democratic 9/11 Commission Co-Chair Leads Cover-up of Republican Plot
June 14, 2002: Future 9/11 Commission Executive Director Offers Support for Invasion of Iraq
From September 25, 2001 to Summer 2002: Few Photographers Gain Access to Ground Zero
September 11-12, 2001: FBI Agents Denied Permission to Interview Moussaoui, Due to Lack of Emergency
Shortly After September 11, 2001: City Officials Make Decision to Scrap Remaining WTC Steel
September 12, 2001: FEMA Assembles Team to Analyze WTC Collapses, but Investigation Is Severely Hampered
After September 11, 2001: Unlike Previous Incidents, NTSB Does Not Investigate 9/11 Plane Crashes
September 12, 2001: FBI and NTSB Limit Evidence Recovery Efforts at Pentagon
(September 12, 2001-2002): FBI Intimidates Witnesses Who Saw Atta in Venice; Tells Them to Keep Quiet
September 11, 2001-October 2001: FBI Agent Wright Gagged by FBI in Wake of 9/11
September 11, 2001-Autum 2002: FBI’s Saudi Office Fails to Follow Up Thousands of 9/11 Leads; Unprocessed Documents Are Destroyed
(September 11, 2001-May 2002): Little-Known City Agency Takes Charge of Ground Zero Cleanup Operation
September 13, 2001: Air Force General Gives Inaccurate Account of Fighter Response during Attacks
September 17, 2001: White House Meeting Leads to Cover-up?
September 21, 2001: Report Suggests There Are Confiscated Videos of Pentagon Crash
September 21, 2001: Recordings of NEADS on 9/11 Damaged during Transcription Attempt
January 24, 2002: President Bush and Vice President Cheney Pressure Senator Daschle to Avoid 9/11 Inquiry
October 10, 2002: President Bush Backtracks on Support for Independent 9/11 Commission
October 17, 2002: Tenet Misinforms Congressional Inquiry about CIA Knowledge of Hijackers’ Entry into US
November 2002 and After: Karl Rove Concerned about 9/11 Investigation
Late December 2002: White House Tells 9/11 Commission Chairman Kean He Must ‘Stand Up’ for President Bush
March 26, 2003: President Bush Turns Down Increased Budget for 9/11 Commission
March 27, 2003: Security Clearance of 9/11 Commission Members Stalled
March 28, 2003: Independence of 9/11 Commission Called Into Question
9:15 a.m. - 9:45 a.m. March 31, 2003: 9/11 Commission Says It Will Not ‘Point Fingers,’ Family Members Are Disappointed
9:45 a.m.-10:15 a.m. March 31, 2003: New York Officials Testify to 9/11 Commission, Mayor Tries to ‘Blindside’ Inquiry
April 2003: 9/11 Commission’s Zelikow Refuses to Approve Half of Interview Requests for ‘Saudi Connection’ Investigators
April 2003: 9/11 Commission’s Zelikow Blocks Access to Key Document by ‘Saudi Connection’ Investigators
(April 2003): Zelikow Fires ‘Saudi Connection’ Investigator from 9/11 Commission in Dispute over 28 Redacted Pages from Congressional Inquiry
Before April 24, 2003: 9/11 Commission Executive Director Zelikow Cuts off Commissioners’ Access to Congressional Inquiry Files

May 23, 2002: President Bush Opposes Independent 9/11 Commission
June 2003: White House Counsel Gonzales Continues to Stonewall Commission over White House Access
2003-2004: Key FBI Agents Eager to Testify to 9/11 Commission, but Are Not Subpoenaed
January 26, 2003: Some 9/11 Commission Members Unhappy with Staffing Arrangements, Executive Director Zelikow’s Appointment and Degree of Control
Shortly Before January 27, 2003: 9/11 Commission Hires Philip Zelikow as Executive Director Despite His Links to National Security Adviser Rice
January 27, 2003: Richard Clarke Amazed at Zelikow’s Hiring by 9/11 Commission, Thinks ‘The Fix Is In’
January 27, 2003: 9/11 Commission Decides It Will Not Issue Subpoenas
(February 2003): White House Repeatedly Contacts 9/11 Commission Chairman to Discuss Appointment of Commission’s Counsel

Ik zit nog maar in 2003 maar m'n goesting is over, de rest zal je vast en zeker zelf opzoeken.

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door 1207

neen,
de Vs controleerde al geruime tijd de irakese olie. Daarvoor een bloedbad onder de eigen bevolking aanrichten zou een grap zijn. een heel onsmakelijke maar smaken verschillen.

Dat is wel zeer kort door de bocht. Olie was slechts een deel van het motief. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7431805.stm)
Greenspan admits Iraq was about oil, as deaths put at 1.2m

Het was echter veel belangrijker om de wereld te veranderen. Nu is er een pre en een post 9/11 wereld. Nu mag en kan alles, zolang het maar gaat om onze veiligheid. Niet in het minste het verwijderen van uw rechten en privacy. Dat het militair industriëel complex de vrije loop kreeg om, niet alleen in Irak, maar overal ter wereld te doen wat het wou, simpelweg vanwege "terrorisme" komt daar nog eens bovenop.

9/11 creëerde een wildcard zodat de VS kon doen en laten wat het wou. Het effect was zelfs zo sterk dat vele landen wereldwijd de VS volgden in de strijd tegen het fictieve terrorisme. En het verdwijnen van de privacy en het terugdringen van de persoonlijke rechten gingen eveneens ver buiten de grenzen van de VS achteruit.

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door 1207

een gok, gis, vermoeden. waardeloos zonder objectieve verifieerbaar bewijsmateriaal.

Grapjas, u hebt de artikels zelfs niet gelezen, zoveel is duidelijk. U mag natuurlijk in detail treden en mij het tegendeel bewijzen.

[atmosphere]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door eti1777

Over wie heb je het hier precies?

Vooral over de sites die die beschuldigingen uitten en de mensen hier die deze promoten .

[atmosphere]

In het geval van 9/11 en de bomaanslagen in Londen, willen die wargames heel veel zeggen. Omdat ze ofwel de exacte gebeurtenissen spiegelen, of ze zodanig storen dat de autoriteiten hun job niet konden doen.

Geen enkele wargame op 11 september spiegelde de werkelijke gebeurtenissen , dat denkt u alleen omdat sites als Daan speak u dat vertellen op basis van selectieve informatie uit d emain stream media .

http://www.daanspeak.com/USAUnderAttack07r.html







Stonewalled by the C.I.A.
Bush Opposes 9/11 Query Panel
Critics want 9/11 panel's full report on threats
What the September 11 commission hearings revealed
May 2000: Future Authors of 9/11 Report Produce John F. Kennedy Book Riddled with Errors
[url="http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=Ik zit nog maar in 2003 maar m'n goesting is over, de rest zal je vast en zeker zelf opzoeken.[/quote]

Nagenoeg alles in deze links kan ik goed onderbouwd weerleggen.

Steeds zijn we bezig geweest met conspiracy claims , wanneer gaan we eens aan de slag met al die andere onderzoeken ??? Onderzoeken die bewijs leveren over hoe de torens zijn ingestort ?

Zullen we het roer eens omgooien , de believers eens op inhoud laten bashen ??



Nog iets ,
U kunt zich niet voorstellen dat mensen als Richard Gage totale onzin uitkramen , omdat u daarvoor geen reden ziet . Denk eens kritisch na , ook over dit soort figuren .

[Akufen]

Bij nader inzien staat er niets in uw post dat de moeite is om op te antwoorden. Ik wil alleen wel vermelden dat ik het over Londen had wanneer het aankwam op die weerspiegeling van de realiteit in de wargames van die dag, of is het andersom?

[illwill]

4de poging...Blijkbaar een moeilijke vraag voor de believers...of weten ze het zelf eigenlijk niet?
Dus men heeft geen echte getuigenissen, men gaat niet met alle bewijzen naar de rechtbank...wat is nu het doel van de believers eigenlijk? Wat wil deze groep van mensen bereiken? Kan me dat iemand vertellen?

[Zeikstraal]

? Men is toen naar de rechtbank gegaan maar kon niets doen, dat viel allemaal onder nationl security.. Bush administration is schuldig aan oorlogsmisdaden en irak was gepland nog voor er sprake was van 9/11. Ze wouden er toen een wet doorrammen dat ze immuun waren voor de oorlogsmisdaden. Weet ni of die er door is gekomen en of ze nu voor een tribunaal moeten verschijnen. Wss niet

Project for the New American Century, lees dat document maar eens, daar was alles al uitgetekend pre 9/11, inclusief dat een nieuwe pearl harbor wonderen zou doen voor de doelen te bereiken.

Het gehele doel denk ik is om mensen wakker te schudden van het steeds groeiende 4de rijk

[Dixie]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door illwill

4de poging...Blijkbaar een moeilijke vraag voor de believers...of weten ze het zelf eigenlijk niet?
Dus men heeft geen echte getuigenissen, men gaat niet met alle bewijzen naar de rechtbank...wat is nu het doel van de believers eigenlijk? Wat wil deze groep van mensen bereiken? Kan me dat iemand vertellen?

2

[Micele]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Akufen

Ik zal het nog eens pasten:
[.............]
Ik zit nog maar in 2003 maar m'n goesting is over, de rest zal je vast en zeker zelf opzoeken.

Uit al die links toch wat citeren wat me vooral interesseerde (via-via):

http://www.antiwar.com/article.php?articleid=2305

Deadly Mistakes: A Chronology of Failure
by Oliver Schröm
October 2, 2002
The following article by Oliver Schrom is over a year old, but it certainly has relevance in light of the revelations about the U.S. government's pre-9/11 perception of the threat posed by Al Qaeda. Schrom's piece is a chronology of failure – our government's failure to carry out its only legitimate function, which is protecting America from foreign threats and invasion, and is so structured, with important dates highlighted. Readers will be particularly interested in the entry dated Aug. 6, 2001 – the date of the recently released Presidential Daily Briefing (PDB) – which notes:

"Instead of the usual two or three pages, today's briefing paper consists of eleven and a half printed page and carries the title 'Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S.'"

The version released by the White House is barely a page and a half long. Is the White House holding back? That question, I believe, can safely be modified to read: What is the White House holding back?

In any case, read Schrom's piece: it couldn't be more timely.

Deadly Mistakes
by Oliver Schröm
translated from Die Zeit
October 2, 2002

[ ... ingekort .... 2 namen opvolgen maakt het wat gemakkelijker en soms ingekleurd al-Midhar en al-Hazmi ]

Frankfurt, June 2000 The mission of the two terrorists appears to have ended, even before it actually began. Al-Midhar traveled to Frankfurt in June 2000. What he was doing in Germany is unclear. He probably met with Binalshibh, the logistics man for the Hamburg cell. Al-Midhar was able to enter the country unobserved, because the CIA didn't tell its German counterparts about the terrorists. Al-Midhar and Binalshibh were seen most recently in Malaysia, but they knew each other long before the meeting in Asia. They were related. Binalshibh was Al-Midhar's wife's cousin. Presumably al-Midhar told his in-law that the pilot training didn't work out, and that he would have to find a replacement.

This presented the logistics man with a formidable problem, at least in the short term. He registered by phone with a flight school in the States, but he still wasn't going to become a pilot. On May 17, two weeks before al-Midhar's arrival in Germany, the US Embassy told Binalshibh that he wasn't going to get a visa. Other members of the Hamburg cell had better luck. Like Binalshibh, they applied for their visas immediately after their return from Malaysia, and inquired by phone or e-mail about the training programs at 31 American flight schools.

Shortly after al-Midhar arrived in Germany, Mohammed Atta and two other members of the Hamburg Al Qaeda cell went to the US and started their pilot training in Florida. On September 11, 2001 Atta would fly the plane that sped into the North Tower of the World Trade Center.

Al-Midhar also went back to the US. After it became clear that he and Al-Hazmi weren't going to become pilots, his assignment was to coordinate the planning for the attacks. But first he had to take care of his ability to stay in the country. His visa was running out. On July 7, 2000 he went to see the INS. Shortly before that CIA headquarters in Langley received yet another explicit notice from its Malaysia station that the Al Qaeda terrorist al-Hazmi had already entered the U.S. in January. But in Langley they stayed calm. Al-Hazmi wasn't designated for investigation, and neither the FBI, the State Department, nor the INS were informed. Consequently, nobody had any reason to be suspicious when al-Hazmi applied to extend his visa, giving his address in San Diego. His wish was granted.

San Diego, September 2000 The neigbors in San Diego grew suspicious. Al-Hazmi and Al-Midhar lived in the apartment complex for eight months and still didn't have any furniture. They slept on the floor and regularly made calls from phone booths even though they had a phone in their apartment. The two Saudis apparently noticed the skeptical glances of their neighbors. They terminated the lease and moved in with Abduss Attar Sheikh, a Muslim they met at the Mosque in San Diego. This friend, a retired English teacher, rented them a room and helped them open a bank account and get Internet access.

As it turned out, the retiree was also helping out the local FBI. He was providing the police information on militant Muslims in San Diego. His contact officer regularly visited him at home. Al-Midhar and al-Hazmi were in the house during some of these visits. Sheikh quickly closed the living room door at such moments so his boarders wouldn't find out about his activities as an informer. Neither the informer nor his officer had any idea that the two young men were Al Qaeda terrorists.

Al-Midhar moved out after six weeks. He told his host that he was returning to his wife and children in Saudi Arabia. In fact he was involved in an act of terrorism. On October 12, 2000 a suicide squad carried out an attack on the naval ship USS Cole in Aden harbor. A dinghy packed with explosives rammed into the port side of the ship. 17 US soldiers died, 38 were wounded. The CIA assumes that al-Midhar took part in the attack.

Al-Hazmi remained in San Diego for the time being, still living with the FBI informant. The latter never had any idea what was going on while the worst act of terrorism in American history was being prepared in his house. Al-Hazmi would sit at the computer and spend hours surfing the Internet. He told his landlord he was looking for a wife, preferably a Mexican. The informer tried to teach al-Hazmi a few Spanish phrases, like "Que pasa?"

At the end of December 2000 al-Hazmi also left the house in San Diego. He moved in with his fellow countryman Hani Hanjur in Mesa, Arizona. Hanjur had been living in the US since 1996 and earned his license at a flight school in Scottsdale. After al-Hazmi and al-Midhar's flight training didn't work out, Hanjur would now fill the role for the trained pilot.

But the pilot still needed some actual flying time. So he tried to take a few lessons at a flight school in Phoenix. Despite the fact that he had been in the States for several years, his English was so bad that the flight school operator assumed that he couldn't have had a valid pilot's license. He assumed the license certificate was a forgery and notified the FAA. But the suspected license turned out to be genuine.

Washington, DC January 2001. Both the FBI and the CIA are tracking down the perpetrators of the attack on the USS Cole in Yemen. The CIA conclusively determined that the one-legged bin Atesh was the mastermind of the attack. They consulted the observation report from the meeting in Malaysia. It suggested that the attack on the Cole was decided and planned in Kuala Lumpur. The other participants at the meeting, among them al-Hazmi and al-Midhar, were now under suspicion, at least implicated in the planning of the attack. Although the CIA had enough information to know that al-Midhar possessed a valid visa and that al-Hazmi still had to be in the USA, it didn't raise a red flag with the investigators, and they didn't bother to notify the FBI. The CIA, as the foreign intelligence agency, is forbidden by law from operating inside the US.

Pursuit of terrorists from bin Laden's network was the CIA's top priority."We are at war [with Al Qaeda]," wrote CIA Director George Tenet in an internal memo "I want no resources or people spared in this effort". In February 2001, shortly after Bush's inauguration, the CIA Director, speaking to the Senate Intelligence Committe, explicitly warned of further attacks by the terrorist organization."Osama bin Laden and his global network of lieutenants and associates remain the most immediate and serious threat to US national security". And "As the United States has strengthened security around government buildings and fixed military facilities, terrorists are seeking out 'softer' targets [to guarantee the greatest losses]"

There was still a lot left to be organized. Al-Hazmi was constantly driving around in his old Toyota. He didn't always obey the speed limit. On April 1, 2001 he was caught in a speed trap on I-40 in western Oklahoma. He was stopped by the police and had to show his ID, license and registration. The officer radioed in to see if there was anything on the driver. The police database had nothing. Al-Hazmi got a ticket and kept driving. The fine for speeding was $138. He paid it by mail.

New York, June 11, 2001. FBI agents from the New York bureau and from headquarters in Washington met with representatives of the CIA to exchange information and make progress in the USS Cole investigation. The CIA agents showed their colleagues from the FBI the photos from Malaysia and finger the one-legged bin Atesh as the mastermind behind the attack. They casually let slip the name of Al-Midhar, who was in one of the pictures with bin Atesh. When the FBI asked for more specific details, the CIA kept quiet. They didn't mention to the FBI that Al-Midhar had a valid US visa and was probably in the US at that moment. A year later one of the CIA agents told an investigating committee with tears in his voice that they weren't authorized at the time to disclose this to the FBI.

Internally the CIA feared the worst. Its agents reported their analysis to leading members of the adminstration."Based on a review of all-source reporting over the last five months, we believe that UBL [Usama bin Laden] will launch a significant terrorist attack against US and/or Israeli interests in the coming weeks. The attack will be spectacular and designed to inflict mass casualties against US facilities or interests." A likely date of July 4, 2001 was mentioned.

On July 4 al-Midhar returned to the US on Saudi Arabian Airlines flight 53 after an absence of several months. Shortly before that, while still in Saudi Arabia, he extended his US visa until October 3, 2001. Although the CIA had in the meantime implicated him in the attck on the Cole, he had no problems entering the US. He presented his Saudi passport, which was in his own name, and on his immigration form gave his local address as the Marriott Hotel in New York. He subsequently made his way to Arizona to see al-Hazmi and others.

Phoenix, July 10, 2001. Kenneth Williams is an experienced policeman. He has been working at the FBI counter-terrorism unit in Phoenix for eleven years. Today Williams sent a multiple page report to his superiors at FBI headquarters in Washington and to his counter-terrorism colleagues in New York who have been experts on Islamic extremism since the bombing of the World Trade Center in 1993.

Williams has grown concerned over the last few months that there has been an increase in the number of young Muslims from the Middle East undergoing pilot training in Arizona. Williams counted a total of 10 individuals from Pakistan, India, Kenya, Algeria, the United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia. Some of them have taken flight time, others are studying aircraft construction or international aviation security. The FBI has questioned several of these students and heard them making hostile statements about the United States. Williams noticed, moreover, that these students were suspiciously well informed about American airport security measures. In his report Williams concluded that these aviation students could have been followers of Osama bin Laden. He thought it was plausible that terrorists might want to become pilots so as to hijack passenger airliners.

The FBI agent recommended looking at all flight schools. His New York colleagues deemed his arguments "speculative and not particularly significant". As it would turn out in a few months, someone from one of the flight schools that Williams was looking at was an acquaintance of the death pilot who crashed the hijacked jet into the Pentagon.

Crawford, August 6, 2001. George W Bush is on vacation. He wanted to spend the whole month at his ranch in Texas."The Presidential Daily Brief" was part of his morning routine. In the PDB, as its called in CIA jargon, a senior CIA official presents the President with a summary of the security situation. On this morning the CIA Director personally briefs the President. Instead of the usual two or three pages, today's briefing paper consists of eleven and a half printed page and carries the title "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S.". The CIA chief argued that Al Qaeda was now also attempting to carry out attacks inside the US, and there were probably already members of the terror organization located in the US for some time. It's not clear whether or not the CIA Director told the President about statements made by Al Qaeda members who were already in custody. According to their statements, the terror organization had long thought about hijacking airplanes in order to use them as missiles.

Minneapolis, August 15, 2001. One flight school in Minneapolis informed the FBI that one if its students was interested in flying Boeings, although he didn't even have a license for small Cessnas. The flight student was arrested the next day, officially for immigration violations. He was a French citizen of Moroccan origin named Zacharias Moussaoui. His letters and his laptop were confiscated and immediately sent to FBI headquarters in Washington, where they sat unexamined.

An FBI agent took up the case at the flight school. The 47-year-old Coleen Rowley, a 21-year veteran of the FBI, got in contact with French authorities and learned that Moussaoui was suspected in France of having ties to Islamic extremists. She informed FBI headquarters and asked to have Moussaoui's laptop examined closely. Her request was denied."We don't know he's a terrorist. You don't have enough to show he's a terrorist". The investigator persisted, asking permission to examine the laptop herself. Headquarters got irritated and told her not to bring this subject up again. In fact, the Frenchman was in close contact with the September 11 attackers. Evidence of this was found on his laptop, which was, however, closely examined after September 11. One clue led to Germany. Moussaoui received a money transfer from Binalshibh, the logistics man of the Hamburg cell.

Rowley didn't know about any of this when she composed a memo to her superiors at the end of August 2001. She wrote that the circumstances indicated that Moussaoui was taking flying lessons solely for the purpose of flying into buildings, and that he was probably planning to fly a plane into the World Trade Center.

Langley, August 23, 2001. The Israeli Mossad intelligence agency handed its American counterpart a list of names of terrorists who were staying in the US and were presumably planning to launch an attack in the foreseeable future. According to documents obtained by Die ZEIT, Mossad agents in the US were in all probability surveilling at least four of the 19 hijackers, among them al-Midhar. The CIA now does what it should have done 18 months earlier. It informs the State Dept., the FBI and the INS.

The names al-Midhar and al-Hazmi are promptly put on an investigation list, as probable members of Al Qaeda. al-Midhar is expressly noted as a probable accomplice in the USS Cole attack. The first acknowledgement arrives quickly. The INS writes that according to its information, both men are currently in the US.

Now both men are pursued vigorously. On his entry into the US al-Midhar gave his address as the Marriott Hotel in New York. FBI agents visited all the chain's hotels in the New York area, without success.

One of the FBI agents on the case called headquarters in Washington and asked for reinforcements. He wanted to expand the investigation for al-Midhar. The agent properly assessed the danger that al-Midhar posed. He had already been working on the USS Cole investigation for months.

In this context he had met with his colleagues from the CIA once and al-Midhar's name slipped out. Now that he reads this name in the investigation file, with the note that al-Midhar was implicated in the Cole attack, the FBI agent became angry with his CIA colleagues. They had previously withheld this detail from him.

But his anger increases when his own headquarters declines to give him additional support. The attorneys at the FBI's National Security Law Unit made very clear that the law prescribes a strict wall between intelligence and police investigations. And the search for al-Midhar has now returned to being an intelligence matter."someday someone will die – and wall or not – the public will not understand why we were not more effective and throwing every resource we had at certain 'problems'." one frustrated FBI agent writes to his headquarters on August 29, 2001."Let's hope the National Security Law Unit will stand behind their decisions then, especially since the biggest threat to us now, UBL [Usama bin Laden], is getting the most protection."

Laurel, Maryland, August 25, 2001. Al-Midhar is staying in room 343 of the Valencia Motel in Laurel. He is not alone. With him are al-Hazmi, his brother, the pilot and another terrorist. The five seldom left the room. Whenever the maid knocked and wanted to make the beds, the terrorists opened the door only a crack and took fresh hand towels."We thought they were gay, five men in one room," a neighboring guest later said.

The timing and schedule for the attacks had been set. One after another they bought their tickets. Twelve days remaining. Everything is going according to plan.

Washington, DC, September 11, 2001. Early in the morning the five terrorists drive to Dulles Airport. Police later seize the Toyota and find a receipt for tuition at the Phoenix flight school, four diagrams of a Boeing 757 cockpit, a carpet knife, a map of Washington and slips of paper with notes and phone numbers.

At 7:30 the terrorists check in. Investigators have been searching everywhere for al-Hazmi and al-Midhar for the last 20 days. Despite that, the two pass unhindered through security along with their accomplices. Both the tickets and passports which they presented were in their own names. A few hours later the hijacked planes started infernos in New York and Washington.

The CIA Director learned of this over breakfast at the St. Regis Hotel in Washington, only a few meters from the White House. He said that all signs pointed to Osama bin Laden. The President would have to be informed who was most likely behind the attack. Tenet rose from the breakfast table and made a hasty good-bye.

http://www.arcocarib.com/assets/imag...01/monkeys.jpg

[Micele]

vervolg (tja, van al die kleurtjes zetten)

indien men de echte documenten wil zien van die 2 kerels en de 2 andere doorgespeeld door Mossad, volgende link aanklikken en telexen uitvergroten a.u.b.:

http://www.historycommons.org/events...81722-7985.jpg

Bron:

http://www.historycommons.org/contex...01watchlistadd

August 23, 2001: Hijackers Alhazmi and Almihdhar Are Finally Added to Terrorist Watch List

Thanks to the request of Margaret Gillespie, an FBI analyst assigned to the CIA’s Counter Terrorism Center, the CIA sends a cable to the State Department, INS, Customs Service, and FBI requesting that “bin Laden-related individuals” Nawaf Alhazmi, Khalid Almihdhar, Ahmad Hikmat Shakir, and Salah Saeed Mohammed bin Yousaf (an alias for Khallad bin Attash) be put on the terrorism watch list. All four individuals had attended the January 2000 al-Qaeda summit in Malaysia.

verband met vorige post:

Langley, August 23, 2001. The Israeli Mossad intelligence agency handed its American counterpart a list of names of terrorists who were staying in the US and were presumably planning to launch an attack in the foreseeable future. According to documents obtained by Die ZEIT, Mossad agents in the US were in all probability surveilling at least four of the 19 hijackers, among them al-Midhar. The CIA now does what it should have done 18 months earlier. It informs the State Dept., the FBI and the INS.

Laat die mannen maar rustig inchecken -onder eigen naam- en een vliegtuig kapen (AA 77) en in het Pentagon vliegen...

Bron FBI:
American Airlines Flug 77: Hani Hanjour (Pilot), Khalid al Mihdhar, Majid Moqed, Nawaf al Hazmi, Salem al Hazmi

Flugzeugentführer
Alle 19 Flugzeugentführer hatten ihre Flüge mit Klarnamen gebucht. Das FBI[11] und der Bericht der parlamentarischen Untersuchungskommission nannten als ausführende Attentäter:[12]

American Airlines Flug 11: Mohammed Atta (Pilot), Abdul al Omari, Satam al Suquami, Wail al Shehri, Waleed al Sherhri
United Airlines Flug 175: Marwan al Schehi (Pilot), Fayez Banihammad, Mohand al Shehri, Ahmed al Ghamdi, Hamza al Ghamdi
American Airlines Flug 77: Hani Hanjour (Pilot), Khalid al Mihdhar, Majid Moqed, Nawaf al Hazmi, Salem al Hazmi
United Airlines Flug 93: Ziad Jarrah (Pilot), Saeed al Ghamdi, Ahmed al Nami, Ahmed al Haznawi
An den Tatorten gefundene DNS-Spuren bestätigten die Identität von 12 der 19 Attentäter,[13] 15 von ihnen waren Staatsbürger Saudi-Arabiens.[14]

Sie hatten die Anschläge jahrelang vorbereitet.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrora...entf.C3.BChrer

[bronnr.]

[atmosphere]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Micele

Uit al die links toch wat citeren wat me vooral interesseerde (via-via):

Dus toch die 19 lieden als diegene die in de vliegtuigen zaten en ze kaapte met als doel te kunnen crashen ??

Dus toch echte waarschuwingen voor op handen zijnde aanslagen in de VS zelf ?

[atmosphere]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Zeikstraal

? Men is toen naar de rechtbank gegaan maar kon niets doen, dat viel allemaal onder nationl security.. Bush administration is schuldig aan oorlogsmisdaden en irak was gepland nog voor er sprake was van 9/11. Ze wouden er toen een wet doorrammen dat ze immuun waren voor de oorlogsmisdaden. Weet ni of die er door is gekomen en of ze nu voor een tribunaal moeten verschijnen. Wss niet

Project for the New American Century, lees dat document maar eens, daar was alles al uitgetekend pre 9/11, inclusief dat een nieuwe pearl harbor wonderen zou doen voor de doelen te bereiken.

Het gehele doel denk ik is om mensen wakker te schudden van het steeds groeiende 4de rijk

De neocons lobbyden ver voor 9/11 al voor het ingrijpen in het midden Oosten . Volgens hen moest dit het antwoord zijn op de bestaande dreiging die zij zagen .
En wat betreft dat laatste hadden ze gelijk (ook al waren er nog andere redenen om te willen ingrijpen) . onder andere de waarschuwingen vooraf bevestigden dat .

[atmosphere]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Akufen

Bij nader inzien staat er niets in uw post dat de moeite is om op te antwoorden.

Hiermee negeert u ook nu weer de grote hoeveelheid onderzoeken die zijn gedaan . Steeds zet u de theoriën van een handje vol 'truther wetenschappers' in de spotlight, omdat ze zogenaamd de waarheid verkondigen en wetenschappers zijn . Alle andere wetenschappers(veel meer !) die heel serieus werk hebben uitgebracht worden structureel genegeerd.

lekker evenwichtig

[Micele]

[quote=atmosphere;4298849]

Dus toch die 19 lieden als diegene die in de vliegtuigen zaten en ze kaapte met als doel te kunnen crashen ??

Waarschijnlijk.

Dus toch echte waarschuwingen voor op handen zijnde aanslagen in de VS zelf ?

Ja, ge hebt de posts toch gevolgd ?

Vraag terug: hebben "ze" getracht de echte waarschuwingen gehoor te geven en de nodige maatregelen te treffen om de kapingen en de aanslagen te verhinderen of te beperken ?
Of was het een duidelijke vrijgeleide... " doe maar mannekes, eens zien wat ge ervan terecht brengt ? ... oei oei maar dat hadden we nu ook niet gedacht... 3 op de 4 gelukt... één of 2 crashes waren al voldoende hé..."

----

Daarbij komt nog dat AA 77 - met de gekende 2 terroristen - om 8:54 hr plots van koers veranderde, namelijk een zeer opvallende *U-turn deed recht naar Washington, nadat 9 minuten eerder (8:46) WTC 1 getroffen werd door AA11... Ring Ring Ring a bell ?
* vluchtroute A77 naar Oosten, richting Washington of eventueel ook Arlington (Pentagon):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:91..._AA77_path.png

Om 8:56 schakelde AA 77 zijn transponder uit (Ring²- Ring²) en vloog nog steeds recht terug naar de Oostkust

Alhoewel sinds 8:46 2 F-15 onderweg waren naar N-Y-Manhattan (AA11<>WTC1 te laat) werden ze niet op AA77 afgestuurd (iets schuiner naar ´t Westen), men hield ze zelfs niet eens in de lucht , of nog erger ze werden teruggestuurd naar hun home base Otis AFB ( 670 km van N-Y of 590 km van ´t Pentagon of xxx km van ´t Witte Huis...) waar ze nog wat gingen wachten tot 9:13 ...

Om 9.13 werden ze terug naar Manhattan gestuurd (alweer telaat WTC 2 was ook al geraakt, tja Otis AFB, Massachusetts ligt ook niet tussen Washington en N-Y maar een heel eind NW-telijker... Ring a bell ... even 650 km heen en weer...)

Om 9:25 patrouilleerden ze over Manhattan (telaat voor WTC1 en 2)... alhoewel ondertussen 2 gekaapte vliegtuigen helemaal niet veraf waren om nog te onderscheppen... Ring² Ring² a bell...

Vluchtroute UA 93 : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:UA93_path.svg

- Om 9:37 of 42 minuten later nadat AA77 zijn U-turn maakte en opgevallen moest zijn, of 40 min na transponder-off vlamde hij in het Pentagon...
- Om 10:03 stortte UA 93 neer in Somerset County, Pennsylvania. De bedoeling was wslk Washington White House of Capitol, en het zou nog gelukt zijn ook !! want die 2 F-15 waren wslk nog steeds boven N-Y aan ´t cirkelen... ? Om 10:10 is er pas sprake van Washington en F15´s...

10:10 NEADS emphatically tells fighter pilots over Washington, "Negative clearance to shoot."

Onderschepping - Intercepting ? Welke vliegtuigen ? Nothing... nada

- en nu komt het...
om 10:39 of 36 minuten nadat alle "crashes" gedaan waren... "zou sprake zijn van" een gekaapte Jumbo boven Washington... allez gij... allen daarheen ttz de F-15 wisten plots toch waar Washington lags en moesten daar alles neerhalen wat vloog en niet antwoordde over de boordradio...

Met al de Chinezen maar niet met mij... ttz dat stinkt geweldig en zeker 650 km tegen de wind in...

10:39: Another hijacked jumbo jet is claimed to be headed for Washington, D.C. F-15s are scrambled and patrol the airspace above Washington, D.C. while other fighter jets sweep the airspace above New York City. They have orders, first issued by Vice President Cheney and later confirmed by President Bush, to shoot down any potentially dangerous planes that do not comply with orders given to them via radio

8:46: Two F-15 fighter jets are scrambled from Otis Air Force Base in Massachusetts, intended to intercept Flight 11.

8:53: The F-15s at Otis Air Force Base are airborne. Still lacking an intercept vector to Flight 11 (and not aware that it has already crashed), they are sent to military controlled airspace off Long Island and ordered to remain in a holding pattern until between 9:09 and 9:13.

9:13: The F-15 fighters from Otis Air Force base leave military airspace near Long Island, bound for Manhattan.

http://forum.politics.be/showpost.ph...ostcount=11342

8:54: Flight 77 deviates from its assigned course, turning south over Ohio.

8:56: The transponder on Flight 77 is turned off and even primary radar contact with the aircraft is lost. During radar blackout Flight 77 turns east, unnoticed by flight controllers. When primary radar information is restored at 9:05, controllers look futilely for Flight 77 west of its previous position.[2]
Flight 77 travels undetected for 36 minutes on a course heading due east toward Washington, D.C.

9:03: Flight 175 crashes at about 590 mph (950 km/h) into the south face of the South Tower (2 WTC)

9:03: FAA's New York Center notifies NORAD (NEADS) of the hijacking of Flight 175. (zie 8 h.51-.52)

9:04 (approximately): The FAA's Boston Air Route Traffic Control Center stops all departures from airports in its jurisdiction (New England and eastern New York State).

9:08: The FAA bans all takeoffs nationwide for flights going to or through New York Center airspace. ABC reports later that the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, the agency that runs the New York-area airports, asked the FAA for permission to close down the New York Center airspace.

9:23: Flight 93 receives warning message text from United Airlines flight dispatcher: "Beware any cockpit intrusion- Two a/c [aircraft] hit World Trade Center."

9:24: The FAA notifies NORAD's Northeast Air Defense Sector about the suspected hijacking of Flight 77. The FAA and NORAD establish an open line to discuss Flight 77, and shortly thereafter Flight 93.

9:25: The Otis-based F-15s establish an air patrol over Manhattan.

9:32: A radio transmission from Flight 93 is overheard by flight controllers at Cleveland: "Keep remaining sitting. We have a bomb on board."

9:32: Controllers at the Dulles Terminal Radar Approach Control in Virginia observe "a primary radar target tracking eastbound at a high rate of speed", referring to Flight 77.

9:33 to 9:34: Tower supervisor at Reagan National Airport tells Secret Service operations center at the White House that "an aircraft [is] coming at you and not talking with us," referring to Flight 77. The White House is about to be evacuated when the tower reports that Flight 77 has turned and is approaching Reagan International Airport.

9:34: The FAA's Command Center relays information concerning Flight 93 to FAA headquarters.

9:35: The President's motorcade departs from the elementary school, bound for Sarasota-Bradenton International Airport and Air Force One.

9:35: Flight 93 reverses direction over Ohio and starts flying eastwards.

9:35: Based on a report that Flight 77 had turned again and was circling back toward the District of Columbia, the Secret Service orders the immediate evacuation of the Vice President from the White House.

9:36: Cleveland advises the FAA Command Center that it is still tracking Flight 93 and inquires whether someone had requested the military to launch fighter aircraft to intercept the aircraft.

9:37:46: Flight 77 crashes into the western side of the Pentagon and starts a violent fire. The section of the Pentagon hit consists mainly of newly renovated, unoccupied offices. All 64 people on board are killed, as are 125 Pentagon personnel.

9:39: Another radio transmission is heard from Ziad Jarrah aboard Flight 93: "Uh, this is the captain. Would like you all to remain seated. There is a bomb on board and are going back to the airport, and to have our demands [unintelligible]. Please remain quiet."

9:45: United States airspace is shut down. No civilian aircraft are allowed to take off, and all aircraft in flight are ordered to land at the nearest airport as soon as possible. All international flights headed for the U.S. are redirected to Canada. Transport Canada, the Canadian transportation agency, also closes down its airspace.

10:03:11: United Airlines Flight 93 is crashed by its hijackers 80 miles (129 km) southeast of Pittsburgh in Somerset County, Pennsylvania.[8] Later reports indicate that passengers had learned about the World Trade Center and Pentagon crashes on cell phones and at least three were planning on resisting the hijackers; the resistance was confirmed by Flight 93's cockpit voice recording, on which the hijackers are heard making their decision to down the plane before the passengers succeed in breaching the cockpit door. The 9/11 Commission believed that Flight 93's target was either the United States Capitol building or the White House in Washington, D.C.

Reports stated an eyewitness saw a white plane resembling a fighter jet circling the site minutes after the crash. This is partially true, but it may in fact, have been a private plane that was asked by air-traffic control to check and describe Flight 93's crash site.

10:03 (approximately): The National Military Command Center learns from the White House of Flight 93's hijacking.

10:05: Andrea Mitchell, reporting on NBC from outside the Pentagon, reports that Osama bin Laden may have been involved in the attacks.

10:07: NBC reports for the first time that the South Tower of the World Trade Center has collapsed. Prior to this time they have only said that a section of the building has fallen away.

10:07: NEADS, controlling the only set of fighters over Washington, first learns of the hijacking of Flight 93.

10:10: NEADS emphatically tells fighter pilots over Washington, "Negative clearance to shoot."
....

10:39: Another hijacked jumbo jet is claimed to be headed for Washington, D.C. F-15s are scrambled and patrol the airspace above Washington, D.C. while other fighter jets sweep the airspace above New York City. They have orders, first issued by Vice President Cheney and later confirmed by President Bush, to shoot down any potentially dangerous planes that do not comply with orders given to them via radio. Eventually, the aircraft is revealed to be a medevac helicopter on its way to the Pentagon.

[illwill]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Zeikstraal

? Men is toen naar de rechtbank gegaan maar kon niets doen, dat viel allemaal onder nationl security.. Bush administration is schuldig aan oorlogsmisdaden en irak was gepland nog voor er sprake was van 9/11. Ze wouden er toen een wet doorrammen dat ze immuun waren voor de oorlogsmisdaden. Weet ni of die er door is gekomen en of ze nu voor een tribunaal moeten verschijnen. Wss niet

Project for the New American Century, lees dat document maar eens, daar was alles al uitgetekend pre 9/11, inclusief dat een nieuwe pearl harbor wonderen zou doen voor de doelen te bereiken.

Het gehele doel denk ik is om mensen wakker te schudden van het steeds groeiende 4de rijk

Heeft geen zak met oorlogsmisdaden te maken. Er is geen wet die Bush en co of wie er ook achter zit beschermd tegen terrorisme op eigen bodem! Wat je hier verteld is dus onzin. Ten tweede is Bush niet meer immuun nu dat zijn mandaat is afgelopen, dus dat klopt ook niet meer. Zelfs al was hij dat...Bush heeft het niet alleen geklaard...klaag dan de anderen aan!

Er is geen groeiend 4de rijk.

Trouwens, wat als alle mensen zijn wakkergeschud? Wat dan?

[illwill]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Dixie

2

?

[Zeikstraal]

Voorlopig niet meer groeiend, wel al vergevorderd
Dan zouden ze niet meer op hun kop laten kakken en hen bedanken voor bewezen diensten

[atmosphere]

allen daarheen ttz de F-15 wisten plots toch waar Washington lags en moesten daar alles neerhalen wat vloog en niet antwoordde over de boordradio...

Dat staat er helemaal niet , je verdraait de woorden .

[Micele]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door atmosphere

Dat staat er helemaal niet , je verdraait de woorden .

Ge hebt gelijk, ik was wat overijverig, er mankeerde iets tussen.

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Micele

moesten daar alles neerhalen wat vloog en .... ..... , niet antwoordde over de boordradio...

Dat bedoelde ik :

10:39 .... They have orders, first issued by Vice President Cheney and later confirmed by President Bush, to shoot down any potentially dangerous planes that do not comply with orders given to them via radio.

Ze hadden bevelen, gegeven door Cheney en bevestigd door Bush, om alle potentieel gevaarlijke vliegtuigen neer te halen die niet voldeden aan die orders gegeven via de radio.

Maar er zijn daar probleempjes (hypothetisch)
1.- laten ze de boordradio aanstaan als ze een vliegtuig kapen ?... zodat bvb ook de luchtverkeersleiders kunnen meeluisteren (sommige zijn Arabisch machtig)

2.- en als ze aanstaat... de kapers konden nauwelijks Engels, hoe gaan ze dan aan die bevelen voldoen ?

"Alles wat vloog" en niet antwoordde over de radio is dus inbegrepen.
want i.p. mocht er toen geen luchtverkeer meer zijn:

9:45 United States airspace is shut down. No civilian aircraft are allowed to take off, and all aircraft in flight are ordered to land at the nearest airport as soon as possible. All international flights headed for the U.S. are redirected to Canada. Transport Canada, the Canadian transportation agency, also closes down its airspace.

[atmosphere]

[quote=Micele;4299007]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door atmosphere

Waarschijnlijk.


Ja, ge hebt de posts toch gevolgd ?

Vraag terug: hebben "ze" getracht de echte waarschuwingen gehoor te geven en de nodige maatregelen te treffen om de kapingen en de aanslagen te verhinderen of te beperken ?
Of was het een duidelijke vrijgeleide... " doe maar mannekes, eens zien wat ge ervan terecht brengt ? ... oei oei maar dat hadden we nu ook niet gedacht... 3 op de 4 gelukt... één of 2 crashes waren al voldoende hé..."

----

Mooi zo , dus de 'no plane' theoriën kunnen over boord , evenals de raket theoriën .

U speculeert hier steeds in hoge mate over onderscheppingen . Beluister het meer concrete materiaal eens, de opnames die zijn vrijgegeven in plaats van de theoriën van voor die tijd weer op tafel te gaan leggen .

Het beeld dat naar voren komt uit al die opnames is vooral dat van chaos, van 'te veel schakels in de besluitvorming' en van fouten .