English language forum for Flemings, Walloons and Chicken Eaters

[BrusselsMussels]

Hi yall,

In absence of a common internet forum and a common language equally speaken by both neighbouring cultures to meet each other, we have created this thread to try an experiment: engage the different ethnicities in Belgium to converse politely and constructively, as adults and without prejudice, about the items in Belgian politics which involve us all.

There has been a lack in this type of Forum up to now, which is absurd as Belgian politicians have been discussing with each other for years and decades but a very one sided media on both sides serves to divide the people into well segregated groups.

In order to ensure we are not falling vicitims of a Divide and Conquer strategy set up with purposes which serve only those who set it up, we will engage in discussion free from their divide and bring to each other the discrepancies between both our medias.

The english language also allows the international community to read and take part, and perhaps contribute or share what their media is telling about us.

Even if Belgium is not forever, nothing is, we are all in the same boat for the moment so we have to live with and TALK to each other.

I really hope everyone is adult enough to keep conversations at a decent level, but do not forget the world can watch now!

[Liederik]

Maybe this is something for suggestions; create an english subforum.

[Le Téméraire]

What is this? I don't even...

[BrusselsMussels]

Ok everyone,

While we are waiting for this forum topic to be discovered, and waiting even more for a full subforum, what does everyone think about the new system that makes becoming a Belgian more difficult? Maybe this is a good one to start talking about - together! I just read about it in Le Soir and not sure if Flemish media has published it!

[Mr.White]

Good initiative :

Just for the mass of newcomers in this topic, especially those who are less familiar with the Belgian political context:

Every other post in this topic will contain the acronym "NVA" or the "New Flemish Alliance" and or their presidents' name "De Wever"... you are either against them or with them, you have to choose - any argument is null and void if you don't choose a side...

[BrusselsMussels]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Mr.White

Good initiative :

Just for the mass of newcomers in this topic, especially those who are less familiar with the Belgian political context:

Every other post in this topic will contain the acronym "NVA" or the "New Flemish Alliance" and or their presidents' name "De Wever"... you are either against them or with them, you have to choose - any argument is null and void if you don't choose a side...

Hi Mr. White, the goal of this forum is just to break through the black and white reporting and opinion making facilitated by the different Belgian media, so hopefully it will help some people to be a bit more nuanced and sophisticated in their reasoning instead of just against or with!

And about that famous name, De Wever - the Weaver in English - we should all understand a basic fact. He is just a politician. This already sets him apart from opinionated civilians as he is dependent on media, sponsors, electorate and highly probably higher powers steering his actions. By definition politicians in a less than perfect democracy are not purely and honestly opinionated therefore should not be the center of discussion between free individuals.

[DONG ZHUO]

Fantastic initiative, an english-spoken forum for flemish people... !

this is the most awkward/stupid and also humiliating thread I ever read on a forum.... by far

would it help to consider that the "flemish" people are not some "bunch of guy's and joly old fellows" !

you're talking about some SIX and a half mil people, 6.500.000 individuals !

just for your information I'll give you some numbers of people living in countries considered to be "real nations"

Denmark : 5.5 milj - Norway : 4.9 milj - Finland : 5.3 milj - Ireland : 4.6 milj - Croatia : 4.4 milj - Estonia : 1.3 milj - Slowakia : 5.4 milj

as for the very moment there are about some 6.5 milj "flemish" dude's you might as well consider to start and try to learn flemish and start a conversation with them in their own language....and show some respect !

[BrusselsMussels]

Dong zhuo you have not understood it clearly!

First of all this is not just a thread meant for Flemish people but one to unite different language groups in a forum about Belgian Politics, something this site did not have earlier.

Why is it humiliating for a Fleming to switch to English to make himself understood by different language groups? The Danes do it, so do the Finns and the Slovaks!

I would not classify opening a monolingual discussion among dutch speakers open to the world and facilitating the clear language barrier between Belgiums main ethnicities as a stupid thing!

Get over it man!

[Liederik]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door DONG ZHUO

Fantastic initiative, an english-spoken forum for flemish people... !

this is the most awkward/stupid and also humiliating thread I ever read on a forum.... by far

would it help to consider that the "flemish" people are not some "bunch of guy's and joly old fellows" !

you're talking about some SIX and a half mil people, 6.500.000 individuals !

just for your information I'll give you some numbers of people living in countries considered to be "real nations"

Denmark : 5.5 milj - Norway : 4.9 milj - Finland : 5.3 milj - Ireland : 4.6 milj - Croatia : 4.4 milj - Estonia : 1.3 milj - Slowakia : 5.4 milj

as for the very moment there are about some 6.5 milj "flemish" dude's you might as well consider to start and try to learn flemish and start a conversation with them in their own language....and show some respect !

Consider re-read the setup. Purpose is for non-nationals en non-dutch speakers to be able to discuss. I'm not going to learn swedish, norwegian, finnish or croatian just to get some insights from natives.

Kudos for probably the most shortsighted reply so far.

[DONG ZHUO]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Liederik

Consider re-read the setup. Purpose is for non-nationals en non-dutch speakers to be able to discuss. I'm not going to learn swedish, norwegian, finnish or croatian just to get some insights from natives.

Kudos for probably the most shortsighted reply so far.

if a lad, calling himself "mussels fr brussels" is going to try to make us all speak english.... well.... I've seen them coming... next try they'll teach you to speak french "for conveniant" reasons.... and they'll tell you if you don't speak french you're a mooron....... so that's why you get my reaction

I only do speak and understand six languages, and maybe one day I'll be able to write and read them too.... and I've been learning them in respect for the people I am working with.

[eno2]

Stomme draad. Voor wie zou ik hier Engels moeten praten?

[eno2]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door DONG ZHUO

if a lad, calling himself "mussels fr brussels" is going to try to make us all speak english.... well.... I've seen them coming... next try they'll teach you to speak french "for conveniant" reasons.... and they'll tell you if you don't speak french you're a mooron....... so that's why you get my reaction

I only do speak and understand six languages, and maybe one day I'll be able to write and read them too.... and I've been learning them in respect for the people I am working with.

convenient
moron

[rookie]

Blijkbaar schijnt dit forum bij franstaligen een grote angst aan te wakkeren (zie de verschillende treads van Hans Van De Cauter, sorry brusselsmussels, om de taal te veranderen naar frans of engels

[eno2]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door BrusselsMussels

Dong zhuo you have not understood it clearly!

First of all this is not just a thread meant for Flemish people but one to unite different language groups in a forum about Belgian Politics, something this site did not have earlier.

Why is it humiliating for a Fleming to switch to English to make himself understood by different language groups? The Danes do it, so do the Finns and the Slovaks!

I would not classify opening a monolingual discussion among dutch speakers open to the world and facilitating the clear language barrier between Belgiums main ethnicities as a stupid thing!



Get over it man!

Alléz vooruit, iedereen in slecht Engels

[Liederik]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door BrusselsMussels

Ok everyone,

While we are waiting for this forum topic to be discovered, and waiting even more for a full subforum, what does everyone think about the new system that makes becoming a Belgian more difficult? Maybe this is a good one to start talking about - together! I just read about it in Le Soir and not sure if Flemish media has published it!

I'm pretty happy with it.

The previous version of the law was really an open gate to any and all, fortuneseeker and social security tourists especially. Combined with frequent 'regularisations' (newspeak for giving nationality to rejected and illegals who've been playing hide and seek long enough) the policy was a bad joke. The last decade over half a million people (on a population of 10 mio) became belgian without having to know the language, having a job, having been here for any substantial time at all, or even showing any will to integrate.

The changes now make the procedure simpler, but hardens the conditions. The above examples on requirements now are filled in to the contrary. I think that's pretty basic common sense too. I think it still isn't enough, and the work requirement (have a job offer, capital enough to set up an enterprise) should be the primary one, not just one possibility next to just knowing the language and knowing what football teams we've got.

[BrusselsMussels]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Liederik

I'm pretty happy with it.

The previous version of the law was really an open gate to any and all, fortuneseeker and social security tourists especially. Combined with frequent 'regularisations' (newspeak for giving nationality to rejected and illegals who've been playing hide and seek long enough) the policy was a bad joke. The last decade over half a million people (on a population of 10 mio) became belgian without having to know the language, having a job, having been here for any substantial time at all, or even showing any will to integrate.

The changes now make the procedure simpler, but hardens the conditions. The above examples on requirements now are filled in to the contrary. I think that's pretty basic common sense too. I think it still isn't enough, and the work requirement (have a job offer, capital enough to set up an enterprise) should be the primary one, not just one possibility next to just knowing the language and knowing what football teams we've got.

I actually do not live in Belgium myself anymore - for the time being - and where I live it is impossible to get the local nationality. We only get work visas and residence visas, hence the state is in full control who resides in the country and who not. Everyone who is here is here to do something, is the result. This makesit also very safe, as the first crime is your ticket home forever, if you dont have to pass jail first of course.

The disadvantages of not giving a nationality in my eyes are the turnover of workforce which is too high, causing a lack of continuity in Projects and companies. Also a lack of ownership feeling by the foreign worker make him engage less in trying to improve the situation.

I believe that we have to learn from this extreme experiment and take the good things from it, so moving a bit further in that direction would not harm in my eyes...l

[Shadowke]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door eno2

Stomme draad. Voor wie zou ik hier Engels moeten praten?

2!

[Henri1]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Shadowke

2!

De Nederlanders vinden het sexy om Engels te praten.
Logisch ?

[Liederik]

I've looked into the New Zeland and Canada requirements; the point system.

Depending on a number of criteria you get awarded credits, and from a number of credits onwards you can either apply to be awarded residence permit or you get residence permit automatically.

These permits expire, but you can obtain citizenship too if you fill in some more criteria.

I think it's a fair and balanced system and would applaud something like it here.

It's never going to happen though as long as the walloon socialist party is in power. To be honest, i'm amazed the government managed the strengthening of the nationality law to current standard at all.

[BrusselsMussels]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Shadowke

2!

Another advantage of writing in english is that when the international community googles about belgian politics, there is more likelyhood they will stumble acrossmthesemenglish language fora, and hence get more insight into our little world.

The forum is a bit quiet now as of course there have been no announcements accross the french and different language communities of belgium.

Hopefully we get a few over the coming weeks and the benefits of talking to each other will become apparent to most people on this site.

A full english subforum would be ideal though!