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#581 |
Secretaris-Generaal VN
Geregistreerd: 19 juni 2002
Berichten: 43.125
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![]() Wat is uw probleem met totale vrijheid op domeinen (zoals onderwijs) waar die vrijheid perfect mogelijk is, zonder die van een ander ook maar enigszins in het gedrang te brengen?
__________________
Voor Vorstelijke salarissen..Voor Vrijheid van meningsuiting En Voor Rechtstreekse democratie
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#582 | |
Europees Commissaris
Geregistreerd: 25 april 2006
Berichten: 6.025
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![]() Citaat:
Niemand moet andermans taak overnemen, elk heeft zijn taak en zijn rol, en ze vullen hopelijk elkaar aan, alhoewel conflict met "buitenbeentjes" niet uit te sluiten is. Opvoeding stopt niet als uwe kleine de voordeur uitgaat. Opvoeding is een continu proces met vele actoren, ook de school waar men een groot deel van zijn tijd doorbrengt. En ik heb het steeds over humane waarden gehad, geen typisch katholieke, of vrijzinning of wat dan ook, gewoon waarden waarop onze samenleving draait, en die mogen best ook in de school aan bod komen. Maar we dwalen af, het ging er namelijk over dat in dit concrete geval ouders iedere vorm van controle weigeren, volgens hun uitleg om ideologische redenen, die niet bewezen zijn, nog mat concrete acties van de overheid, noch met acties van de inspectie. Dus volledig gebaseerd op "vermoedens" . |
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#583 | |
Europees Commissaris
Geregistreerd: 25 april 2006
Berichten: 6.025
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#584 | |
Europees Commissaris
Geregistreerd: 25 april 2006
Berichten: 6.025
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![]() Citaat:
Ik stel die twee niet tot norm Anderen blijkbaar wel. |
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#585 |
Secretaris-Generaal VN
Geregistreerd: 19 juni 2002
Berichten: 43.125
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![]() Je stelt ze niet tot norm, maar je hanteert ze wel als exemplarisch 'argument' om thuisonderwijs te discrediteren.
__________________
Voor Vorstelijke salarissen..Voor Vrijheid van meningsuiting En Voor Rechtstreekse democratie
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#586 | |
Europees Commissaris
Geregistreerd: 25 april 2006
Berichten: 6.025
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![]() Citaat:
Ik vind uw hilariteit (zoals meestal) totaal misplaatst. Toch blij u aan het lachen gebracht te hebben, ook al is dan maar uitlachen. Laatst gewijzigd door spherelike : 22 juni 2006 om 08:21. |
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#587 | ||
Secretaris-Generaal VN
Geregistreerd: 19 juni 2002
Berichten: 43.125
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![]() Citaat:
Attitudes leer je aan voor je hele leven. Citaat:
Gelieve me dus niet valselijk te beschuldigen als afleidingsmaneuver om de grond van de discussie te ontwijken..
__________________
Voor Vorstelijke salarissen..Voor Vrijheid van meningsuiting En Voor Rechtstreekse democratie
Laatst gewijzigd door Supe®Staaf : 22 juni 2006 om 08:26. |
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#588 | |
Europees Commissaris
Geregistreerd: 25 april 2006
Berichten: 6.025
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![]() Citaat:
Ik wil nergens iemands recht op thuisonderwijs afnemen. Dat iets wat het clubje ervan gemaakt heeft, als goedpraten van een burgelijke ongehoorzaamheid van hun leiders. Tenzij je met EEN VOLLEDIGE quote van mij het tegendeel bewijst, hoop ik dat je hier niet meer op terugkomt, dit getuigsd niet van eerlijke techniek. Ik zeg enkel dat zeker zij zich moeten schikken naar de regels. Als iemand van de wetgevende macht al denkt de wet die hem niet zint naast zich te mogen neerleggen, welk signaal is dit dan naar de burger ? |
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#589 | ||
Perm. Vertegenwoordiger VN
Geregistreerd: 12 april 2004
Berichten: 11.299
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Citaat:
__________________
“They’re Not After Me, They’re After You. I’m Just In the Way.” Donald J. Trump |
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#590 | ||
Secretaris-Generaal VN
Geregistreerd: 19 juni 2002
Berichten: 43.125
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Big difference. ![]() Citaat:
Ik eis enkel dat ze gelijkberechtigd worden, ongeacht de aversie van het regime of de regimeslaven voor hun ideologie.
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Voor Vorstelijke salarissen..Voor Vrijheid van meningsuiting En Voor Rechtstreekse democratie
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#591 |
Secretaris-Generaal VN
Geregistreerd: 27 juni 2005
Berichten: 42.814
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![]() What has Dr Belien done to deserve this?
Well, he opposes the immigration into Europe of islamic fundamentalists, and he is not afraid to argue this case publicly. He and his website, Brussels Journal, have been assiduous and consistent in pointing out that the contemporary state cultural landscape in Belgium, and particularly the CEOOR, has assumed an aggressive partisanship that is explicitly Marxist and follows the long-discredited methods of Marcuse. Under this ideology, the values of the majority are systematically attacked while those of minority groups, including muslim fundamentalists, are defended, with the aim being to destroy the culture of the majority and then reformulate it on Marxist lines. Throughout this, Brussels Journal has called for free speech for all, tolerance of all viewpoints (including both those that advocate discrimination and those that oppose it) and an end to state partisanship in favour of minority groups. In short, it has stood up for the civilised values of an open society in which opinions, whether popular or not, are subject to rational debate rather than being shouted down by those with the loudest voices. This is the sort of language that Marxist authoritarians least like to hear. Dr Belien has been accused of neglecting his duty as a parent by failing to educate his children adequately. He has been told that the Ministry of Education has asked the judiciary to press charges and the judiciary have therefore asked the police to investigate and collect a statement from him. Three years ago, presumably prompted by concern that a growing number of children were escaping the clutches of the state, Belgium passed a law requiring homeschooling parents to fill out a questionnaire and sign a declaration. The declaration requires them to agree to school their children “respecting the respect [sic] for the fundamental human rights and the cultural values of the child itself and of others.” This is directly inspired by the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child. At first glance the declaration looks pretty innocuous. Then the small print kicks in. The definition of “respecting the respect” etc. is formulated by government inspectors. If two of them report negatively on a child’s homeschooling, the state has the right to force the child to attend a government school. In other words, parental autonomy over homeschooling in Belgium is at an end. The state has assumed the right to impose its own educational agenda, and its definitions of “respecting the respect”, in an act designed to ensure that noone has the opportunity to question its opinions. Dr Belien and Dr Colen have refused to sign such a declaration in protest. This has allegedly placed them in breach of the law. Dr Belien has refused to sign a statement for the police, and has been told he may soon be asked to appear in court. Dr Colen presents a powerful case that this is part of a move that is intended effectively to eliminate homeschooling as an option. She writes that, “Parents who sign away their right to educate their own children are subsequently harassed and intimidated. Three families that we know have had to allow inspectors into their homes who interrogate and intimidate their children, then write a report that they are not in compliance with the minimum requirements (viz. the cultural values clause) set out in the signed document, announce that they will return for further inspection and that the children who fail to qualify will be forcibly sent to schools that are officially recognised by the government.” The inspectors are held to no objective standards. They are not required to state what they are inspecting, what criteria they apply, and what levels of performance need to be met. Their questioning of children is reported as being random and arbitrary. Their only purpose, it seems, is to act as a state rubber stamp for the purpose of removing children from homeschooling and forcing them into state schools. What is more, there is no right of appeal against their verdict, because by signing the declaration, parents have signed away their right to appeal to a higher educational authority or to the courts. And if, like Dr Belien, they refuse to sign the declaration in the first place, they are regarded as failing to educate their children at all and thus are guilty of a criminal offence. Farris explains that, in 1995, “the United Kingdom was deemed out of compliance” with the Convention “because it allowed parents to remove their children from public school sex-education classes without consulting the child”. Farris argues that, “by the same reasoning, parents would be denied the ability to homeschool their children unless the government first talked with their children and the government decided what was best. This committee would even have the right to determine what religious teaching, if any, served the child's best interest.” It may be seen, then, that the combination of this convention with socialist legislators is one with profound and negative implications for the freedom of parents to decide the education of their children. countries where homeschooling is presently permitted, legal steps need to be taken to ensure that it is not subsumed under commitments to international law that ride roughshod over individual rights and freedoms, and that it cannot be destroyed by those who would ensure that state power and ideology goes unchecked and unopposed. Since Dr Colen’s article detailing these matters first appeared, other Belgian homeschoolers being threatened with prosecution have come forward. One has been told categorically by two inspectors that he is not allowed to homeschool his son. The inspectors give no reason for their interference with what, in Belgium, is a constitutional right. The family is now considering moving to Poland. Bron: www.libertarian.co.uk |
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#592 | |
Europees Commissaris
Geregistreerd: 25 april 2006
Berichten: 6.025
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zoals in vele domeinen van de samenleving moet de overheid het opnemen voor de minst weerbare partij. En controle is niet gelijk aan verbieden, verbieden komt er pas na twee negatieve controles, dus bij weigering tot verbetering. Controle zou ook gezien kunnen worden als een bevestiging dat men goed bezig is tov de algemeen gestelde normen. Blijkbaar niemand die daar in geinteresseerd is. Iedereen rotsvast overtuigd van het eigen kunnen, of van de excellente kwaliteit van het ingehuurde personeel. |
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#593 | |
Europees Commissaris
Geregistreerd: 25 april 2006
Berichten: 6.025
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![]() Citaat:
ik heb mijn twijfels over thuisonderwijs door de door mij gepubliceerde cijfers. Je kan zelfs terugvinden dat ik erken dat het bij die twee wel lukt. Mijn kritiek gaat over het zich onttrekken aan de wet, en bij mijn weten doen enkel die twee dat. Dus kan ik moeilijk veralgemenen. |
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#594 |
Banneling
Geregistreerd: 4 juni 2004
Locatie: onder mijn wijnstok en vijgenboom
Berichten: 78.216
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![]() Je weigert te antwoorden op het bezwaar van totaal-elitair dat het (dure) privé onderwijs kan aangewreven worden: daarbij komt nog het bezwaar van twee versnellingen in het onderwijs, een voor topdogs-spruiten en een voor onderdeurtjes uit de onderlaag. Zie Blair, die daar goed mee bezig is in Engeland. Zie de Ivy-leage in de VS...
Neenee, de taak van de Staat om voor iedereen kwalitatief en goedkoop onderwijs te organiseren, kan niet straffeloos aangevallen worden. En je kan je er ook niet vanaf maken met een dooddoendertje. |
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#595 | |
Europees Commissaris
Geregistreerd: 25 april 2006
Berichten: 6.025
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#596 |
Banneling
Geregistreerd: 4 juni 2004
Locatie: onder mijn wijnstok en vijgenboom
Berichten: 78.216
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![]() Onnozele reactie.
ZE zijn tegelijk gesticht na de tweede wereldoorlog. Theoretisch vielen de WTO en het IMF onder de bevoegdheid van de VN, maar ze zijn direct hun eigen weg gegaan onder de controle van Washington en zijn dominante consensus. Woehaa met zulke opzettelijke verdraaiingen, waarvan ik nog genadiglijk aanneem dat ze ingegeven zijn door kwaaie discussiewil en niet door onkunde of onwetendheid. Tenzij je persisteert. Laatst gewijzigd door eno2 : 22 juni 2006 om 08:59. |
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#597 | |
Europees Commissaris
Geregistreerd: 25 april 2006
Berichten: 6.025
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#598 | |
Secretaris-Generaal VN
Geregistreerd: 27 juni 2005
Berichten: 42.814
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Dat het IMF niet onder de VN valt, is gewoon onwaar; het is een departement van ECOSOC.
__________________
Born but to die, and reas'ning but to err. (Pope)
Laatst gewijzigd door lombas : 22 juni 2006 om 09:07. |
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#599 | |
Banneling
Geregistreerd: 4 juni 2004
Locatie: onder mijn wijnstok en vijgenboom
Berichten: 78.216
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![]() Citaat:
Maar ontvangen ze er ook niet véél meer? Laten ze zich niet sponseren door Coca Cola en andere snoepjesfabricanten? Wordt er geen commercieel getint lesmateriaal en dito-boodschappen aangeboden? A la limite zou niet allen het onderwijs, maar alles in het leven gratis kunnen gemaakt worden, als je de de deur maar wagewijd openzet voor sponsoring en reclame. Het is geen wonder dat privé-scholen betere resultaten kunnen boeken, aangezien ze een selectiemechanisme kunnen toepassen, op rijkdom, bezit, sociale status, en intelligentie, ras, afkomst en taal, bv, de lijst is niet uitputtend behandeld. De publieke scholen daarentegen, mogen niet discrimineren... Nogal wiedes, dat je daardoor de cutting edge verliest voor wat de resultaten betreft. Je kan een schildpad nu eenmaal niet met Achilles vergelijken. |
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#600 |
Europees Commissaris
Geregistreerd: 25 april 2006
Berichten: 6.025
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![]() [quote=lombas;1770145]What has Dr Belien done to deserve this?
Well, he opposes the immigration into Europe of islamic fundamentalists, and he is not afraid to argue this case publicly. He and his website, Brussels Journal, have been assiduous and consistent in pointing out that the contemporary state cultural landscape in Belgium, and particularly the CEOOR, has assumed an aggressive partisanship that is explicitly Marxist and follows the long-discredited methods of Marcuse. Under this ideology, the values of the majority are systematically attacked while those of minority groups, including muslim fundamentalists, are defended, with the aim being to destroy the culture of the majority and then reformulate it on Marxist lines. Throughout this, Brussels Journal has called for free speech for all, tolerance of all viewpoints (including both those that advocate discrimination and those that oppose it) and an end to state partisanship in favour of minority groups. In short, it has stood up for the civilised values of an open society in which opinions, whether popular or not, are subject to rational debate rather than being shouted down by those with the loudest voices. This is the sort of language that Marxist authoritarians least like to hear. Dr Belien has been accused of neglecting his duty as a parent by failing to educate his children adequately. He has been told that the Ministry of Education has asked the judiciary to press charges and the judiciary have therefore asked the police to investigate and collect a statement from him. Three years ago, presumably prompted by concern that a growing number of children were escaping the clutches of the state, Belgium passed a law requiring homeschooling parents to fill out a questionnaire and sign a declaration. The declaration requires them to agree to school their children “respecting the respect [sic] for the fundamental human rights and the cultural values of the child itself and of others.” This is directly inspired by the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child. At first glance the declaration looks pretty innocuous. Then the small print kicks in. The definition of “respecting the respect” etc. is formulated by government inspectors. If two of them report negatively on a child’s homeschooling, the state has the right to force the child to attend a government school. In other words, parental autonomy over homeschooling in Belgium is at an end. The state has assumed the right to impose its own educational agenda, and its definitions of “respecting the respect”, in an act designed to ensure that noone has the opportunity to question its opinions. Dr Belien and Dr Colen have refused to sign such a declaration in protest. This has allegedly placed them in breach of the law. Dr Belien has refused to sign a statement for the police, and has been told he may soon be asked to appear in court. Dr Colen presents a powerful case that this is part of a move that is intended effectively to eliminate homeschooling as an option. She writes that, “Parents who sign away their right to educate their own children are subsequently harassed and intimidated. Three families that we know have had to allow inspectors into their homes who interrogate and intimidate their children, then write a report that they are not in compliance with the minimum requirements (viz. the cultural values clause) set out in the signed document, announce that they will return for further inspection and that the children who fail to qualify will be forcibly sent to schools that are officially recognised by the government.” The inspectors are held to no objective standards. They are not required to state what they are inspecting, what criteria they apply, and what levels of performance need to be met. Their questioning of children is reported as being random and arbitrary. Their only purpose, it seems, is to act as a state rubber stamp for the purpose of removing children from homeschooling and forcing them into state schools. What is more, there is no right of appeal against their verdict, because by signing the declaration, parents have signed away their right to appeal to a higher educational authority or to the courts. And if, like Dr Belien, they refuse to sign the declaration in the first place, they are regarded as failing to educate their children at all and thus are guilty of a criminal offence. Farris explains that, in 1995, “the United Kingdom was deemed out of compliance” with the Convention “because it allowed parents to remove their children from public school sex-education classes without consulting the child”. Farris argues that, “by the same reasoning, parents would be denied the ability to homeschool their children unless the government first talked with their children and the government decided what was best. This committee would even have the right to determine what religious teaching, if any, served the child's best interest.” It may be seen, then, that the combination of this convention with socialist legislators is one with profound and negative implications for the freedom of parents to decide the education of their children. countries where homeschooling is presently permitted, legal steps need to be taken to ensure that it is not subsumed under commitments to international law that ride roughshod over individual rights and freedoms, and that it cannot be destroyed by those who would ensure that state power and ideology goes unchecked and unopposed. Since Dr Colen’s article detailing these matters first appeared, other Belgian homeschoolers being threatened with prosecution have come forward. One has been told categorically by two inspectors that he is not allowed to homeschool his son. The inspectors give no reason for their interference with what, in Belgium, is a constitutional right. The family is now considering moving to Poland. Bron: www.libertarian.co.uk[/quote] zie post 473 voor mijn antwoord |
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