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Godsdienst en levensovertuiging In dit forum kan je discussiëren over diverse godsdiensten en levensovertuigingen.

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Oud 3 maart 2008, 09:37   #621
exodus
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Citaat:
Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door parcifal Bekijk bericht
Misschien een iets diepgravender analyse dan die van Micele uit het Condon report, u allen wellicht wel bekend....
http://ncas.org/condon/text/s6chap05.htm

Toch nog even de conclusie doorgeven :


Bron
Bekijk dan eens out of the blue en kijk daar eens wat ze te zeggen hebben over het condon report. Het is heel wat meer genuanceerder dan die zogenaamde conclusie dat jij hier post.
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Oud 3 maart 2008, 09:42   #622
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He points out, however, that there is another radar trace for which there is no explanation to date. As for the visual sightings of this event by the gendarmes and others, Meessen suggests that they could possibly have been caused by stars seen under conditions of "exceptional atmospheric refraction."
Het is duidelijke dat dit een verklaring is die werkelijk op niets trekt. Het is duidelijk niet wat die rijkswachters gezien hebben.
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Oud 3 maart 2008, 11:19   #623
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Citaat:
Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Firestone Bekijk bericht
Aan het einde van de link staan de bekende verhalen van de Piri Reis kaart en de "120 miljoen jaren oude kaart" die in Rusland gevonden werd. So what?

Is dat wat je bedoelt met "wetenschappelijke bewijzen" dat er zeer oude hoogontwikkelde beschavingen vroeger (zelfs tot 10.000 j vóór C) zouden geleefd hebben?

Zo ja, dan blijf ik bij wat ik hier postte.
Deze verhalen doorstaan de kritische analyse immers niet.
Argumenten op, blijkbaar.
Ik heb nog geen argumente gelezen die het detecteren van onbekende objecten door verscheidene grondradars tegelijk weerlegt.
Ik wacht ook nog altijd...

Soit,
wie zijn nek uitsteekt vangt veel wind, op alles en nog wat zijn er kritische analyses, de vraag is alleen wie heeft het bij het rechte eind.

Wat ik alleszins wel weet is dat "critici" dezelfde trukken van de foor hebben om iets in diskrediet te brengen evenals vele "believers". So what ?

Het is natuurlijk veel gemakkellijker onverklaarbare dingen af te breken tot het bot, dan onverklaarbare dingen stilletjesaan pogen op te bouwen met puzzelstukjes van onbekende talen en tekens, door ze aan mekaar te knopen.
En dit over alle werelddelen verspreid, en toch vinden wetenschappers gemeenschappelijkheden, alhoewel dat alleen kon als de mensen -duizenden jaren voor Christus- toen al wisten over oceanen te geraken, dus te navigeren; of op een andere manier.

Nog niet zo lang geleden ca 550 j, dacht iedereen -vd "Westerse" bevolking/wetenschappers- dat de aarde nog plat was...

Toch blijven er overklaarbare raadsels bestaan, en daarom zullen echte wetenschappers toch voortdoen, en trekken zich van die kritiek helemaal niets aan..., alhoewel ze weten dat een nieuwe onverklaarbare vondst telkens alweer in diskrediet zal gebracht worden.

Bij de laatste religieuze geschriften (Bijbels, Koran, en anderen) vraag ik me telkens af wat nu die hemelvaart van bepaalde "profeten" wel kan betekenen, in vele zoniet alle godsdiensten (hier 4 geciteerde indelingen) hoe ver uit mekaar ook, en in andere talen, vindt men het terug.

Citaat:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Himmelfahrt

Himmelfahrt

1 Schamanen und Griechen
2 Altes Testament und Judentum
3 Neues Testament und Christentum
4 Koran und Islam

Schamanen und Griechen

Bereits die Himmelsreisen der Schamanen bringen dieses Streben zum Ausdruck, auch das Auftreten flugfähiger Wesen Engel wie ebenso die göttliche Hilfeleistung (Emndeduranki, Sumer) oder eigenes Geschick (Ikarus). Plato und Plutarch beschreiben Jenseitsreisen. Auch die hellenistischen Mysterienreligionen wie zum Beispiel der Mithraismus geben Anweisungen für eine Reise in den Himmel.

Altes Testament und Judentum
Das Alte Testament beschreibt die Himmelfahrt des Henoch im Buch Genesis (5,24), nachdem er 365 Jahre auf Erden war (5,23) und die Himmelfahrt des Propheten Elija in einem feurigen Wagen (2. Könige 2,11). Das Judentum kennt die Legenden der Himmelfahrt des Mose, deren Entstehung in das 1. Jahrhundert v. Chr. zurück reicht, sowie die später entstandene von der Himmelfahrt des Jesaja.

Neues Testament und Christentum

Die Himmelfahrt von Jesus Christus schildert das Neue Testament Apostelgeschichte 1,1-11. Demnach teilt der auferstandene Christus vierzig Tage seine Gemeinschaft mit den Jüngern und erwirbt dann mit dem Platz "zur Rechten Gottes" die Macht über die Kirche. Im Christentum gibt es in der katholischen und orthodoxen Kirche den Glauben an die leibliche Aufnahme Marias in den Himmel, volkstümlich auch als Mariä Himmelfahrt bezeichnet.

In den Apokryphen wird auch die Himmelfahrt des Simon Petrus beschrieben.

Koran und Islam

In Sure 4:157 heißt es, dass Isa bin Maryam (Jesus) keines natürlichen Todes gestorben sei, sondern von Gott zu sich erhoben wurde.

Laut der Lehre des Islam wurde der Prophet Mohammed durch ein Wunder von Mekka nach Jerusalem versetzt, von wo aus er zum Himmel hinaufstieg. Der Felsendom und die Al-Aksa-Moschee ("die Ferne"), beide im siebten Jahrhundert gebaut, setzten Jerusalem endgültig mit dem "fernen Ort" gleich, von dem im Koran die Rede ist, und machten sie damit zu einem heiligen Ort nach Mekka und Medina. Literatur mit Lobpreisungen der Tugenden Jerusalems - der Fadha'il al Kuds - erlebte in der moslemischen Welt eine Blüte.
Ik tel er 10, zelfs een profeet Elija (Elia) die met een vurige wagen de hemel opsteeg, de latere Jesus en sommige nog latere profeten worden in vele geschriften gemeenschappelijk vermeld.

Citaat:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elija
Elija (auch Elia; Ilia; Elias; Elijah; hebr. אליהו‎ Elijahu) war ein biblischer Prophet, der in der Zeit der Könige Ahab und Ahasja im 2. Viertel des 9. Jh.s v. Chr. im Nordreich Israel wirkte. Sein Name bedeutet „Mein Gott ist der Herr (Jahwe)”.
Citaat:
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elia_%28profeet%29

Eliahoe in het jodendom
De Joden verwachtten op grond van de voorspelling van Maleachi (4: 5-6) de terugkomst van Eliahoe (de Hebreeuwse naam van Elia), voorafgaand aan de komst van de messias. Men zette daarom bij de briet mila een stoel voor hem klaar. Ook werd gedurende de sederavond een beker wijn voor Eliahoe op de sederschotel gezet.

Elia in het Nieuwe Testament
Jezus liet weten dat Johannes de Doper Elia was die terug zou komen (Mattheüs 11:14 en 17:12). Verder liet Jezus nog weten: Elia zal komen en alles herstellen (Mattheüs 17:11). Deze laatste uitspraak betekent dat Elia nogmaals zal komen, en dan om alles te herstellen. Sommige christenen denken namelijk dat hij één van de De twee getuigen zal zijn, in de eindtijd tijdens de regeerperiode van de antichrist.

In Mattheüs 17:1-13 (de verheerlijking op de berg) wordt verteld over een gebeurtenis waarbij Jezus, nadat hij met Petrus, Jacobus en Johannes de berg Tabor is opgeklommen, door God, die spreekt vanuit een wolk, in zijn Zoonschap wordt bevestigd. De discipelen zijn tegelijkertijd getuige van een tafereel waarbij Jezus door Elia en Mozes wordt geflankeerd.
N.B. Elia moet daar bijna 900 jaar oud geweest zijn volgens de Duitse wiki-link


Profeten genoeg, maar relatief weinigen die de hemelvaart zo geschreven "meemaakten", Apostel Johannes schreef ook ongeveer dat enkel die die uit de hemel neerdaalden terug naar de hemel kunnen varen.

De meeste Profeten, soms op raadselachtige wijze geboren op aarde, stierven ook op aarde, meestal vermoord. (Johannes de Doper o.a.)

Laatst gewijzigd door Micele : 3 maart 2008 om 11:45.
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Oud 3 maart 2008, 11:37   #624
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hmmmmmmmmmmm

Citaat:
Where was Atlantis?
by

Brian Desborough
There is no bar to knowledge greater
than contempt prior to examination.
—Herbert Spencer


The year 1584 was not particularly good for one Turkish pirate. It was the year that
he was beheaded. Among the possessions which he left after his unfortunate demise was a
strange portolan map, which had been made in 1513. Remarkably, the map, known as the
Piri Re’is, depicted South America and a portion of Africa. Most remarkable of all was an
outline of Antarctica devoid of ice; the map even indicated the location of bays in the
portion of Antarctica known as Queen Maude Land. Amazingly, these individual bays,
which currently are concealed by a thick layer of ice, were undetected until revealed by
sonar soundings in 1949.
Medieval maps were notoriously inaccurate, yet a collection of such portolans
compiled by E.E.Nordenskiold in 1889, were of such high accuracy that he became
convinced that the maps in question had been redrawn from originals of very great
antiquity.1 One such portolan known as the Haji Ahmed portolan, depicts an ice-free
Antarctica and an accurate outline of America replete with the Baja Peninsula. Its ancient
origins are attested to by the outline of a wide land bridge connecting Alaska and Siberia.
The accuracy of the portolan maps implies that they were redrawn from originals
which had existed prior to the last ice age; their accuracy suggests that the cartographers
who drew the original maps clearly were part of an advanced culture, not hunter-gatherers.
That advanced civilizations existed prior to the last ice age is also attested to by the
discovery of ancient manufactured artifacts, such as the nickel-alloy spheres that were
discovered in pyrophilic rock in the Wonderstone silver mine, near Ottosdal, South Africa.2
In addition, let us not ignore the Vedic literature of India, which describes ancient aerial
craft known as Vimanas. These were claimed to have been developed by a black race
known as the Dravidians. The maps and artifacts demonstrate that contrary to what
academia would have us believe, history is not linear, but in reality appears to be a series of advanced civilizations, each of which have devolved in the aftermath of a cataclysmic event.
Before investigating whether or not Atlantis ever existed, it is necessary to
reconstruct known patterns of the very ancient past. Unfortunately, the earliest written texts only date from circa 3500 B.C.. Since it is apparent that the original maps upon which the portolans were based had to have been drawn prior to the last ice age, it behooves us to determine the approximate period in which the last ice age began.
Fortunately for our narrative, Admiral Byrd led a United States expedition to
Antarctica in 1949. Core samples of ice obtained during the expedition revealed that the last time that Antarctica was free from ice was more than six thousand years ago.
It is customary to find the maximum precipitation, in the form of rain or snow, in
coastal regions, not near the center of a land mass, unless a major rain forest is present.
This is not the case with either of the polar icecaps, where the ice is thickest near the center of both land masses. Another anomaly requiring explanation is that the Northern Yukon 2 region remained free from ice during the last so-called ice age.
Professor Charles Hapgood postulated that the current polar land masses formerly
were in warmer regions, and consequently ice-free. An excessive build-up of ice in the
polar regions caused the earth’s crust to slip, according to Hapgood, causing the
landmasses to slide into their present polar locations. This theory recently has been adopted by author Randy Flemming.3
When lava flows begin to cool, the geomagnetic field strength becomes
permanently locked into the lava’s magnetite crystals. Core samples taken from ancient lava beds by members of the United States Geologic Service, have revealed that the earth’s magnetic field drops to a zero value approximately every five hundred thousand years, then slowly rebuilds. The core samples also indicate that when the earth’s magnetic field drops to zero, cataclysmic earth changes occur. These could be caused by a temporary cessation of the earth’s rotation. Such an awesome event would, indeed, cause the earth’s crust to slip, resulting in horrendous earthquakes, gigantic tidal waves and mountain building. The writer feels that Hapgood’s theory of earth crustal displacement caused by polar ice accumulation is flawed. In order to create such a massive accumulation of ice from regular snowfalls, incredible amounts of thermal energy would have to be generated in equatorial regions, in order to evaporate sufficient water to provide such prodigious snowfalls in the polar regions. Such a high magnitude of thermal energy probably would destroy all life forms in the equatorial zone.
We also must account for the fact that most of the Northern Yukon territory
remained free from ice during the last ice age, and that mammoth elephants have been
discovered in Siberia with undigested foliage in their mouths, implying that they were
flash-frozen during a very abnormal cataclysm—not necessarily of terrestrial origin. Arctic
temperatures are not sufficiently low to accomplish the flash-freezing of large mammals;
perhaps this is why the Book of Job pondered: “Whence cometh the ice?” This particular
Old Testament book is believed to be an Arab work much older than the rest of the Bible.
A major anomaly of the past ignored by academia, is that botanist Nikolai
Ivanovitch Vavilov studied more than fifty thousand wild plants collected from various
global regions, and determined that they all originated in only eight different areas, all in
mountainous terrain. This suggests that a major cataclysm obliterated life in lowland
regions of the planet, sometime in the distant past. Such an horrendous catastrophe would have changed the face of the earth, possibly destroying any advanced civilization in the process. Astronomers claim that the solar system was created through the condensation of a spinning cloud of stellar dust. If this were the case, then the axes of all the planets which comprise our solar system should lie on the same plane of rotation if the solar system has remained in a steady state since its formation. This is clearly not the case however, for the polar axes of Earth and Mars are tilted almost thirty degrees from their orbital planes. Moreover, the polar axis of Uranus is more than ninety degrees out of alignment. We must question why, if our solar system began as a rotating spiral nebula, is a very low-density planet, such as Saturn, orbiting at a much greater distance from the sun than the massive Jupiter, which possesses far greater angular momentum?
The above-cited solar anomalies lend credence to Dr. Immanuel Velikovsky’s
hypothesis that a gigantic comet entered our solar system, perturbing the polar axis of
Uranus. The near-collision caused the comet to lose its tail, which coalesced into the ball of ice and gas we know as Saturn. This hypothesis accounts for its abnormally-low specific gravity. Careening at high speed towards the sun, the massive comet collided with a small planet, which disintegrated, thereby forming the asteroid belt.
Losing momentum as a result of the collision, the comet slowed sufficiently for
capture by a vacant primary node of the solar system’s standing wave structure, thus
enabling it to orbit as the new planet Jupiter. It was the tremendous velocity of the comet
3
immediately prior to its transformation into the new planet Jupiter, that enabled the latter to attain its present angular momentum. Jupiter’s momentum is far greater than that of the sun, even though the sun’s diameter is ten times larger than that of Jupiter—a feat
unattainable if Jupiter was an original member of a steady-state solar system.
According to Velikovsky, the collision between the comet and the small planet
caused a large mass to be ejected from the comet, thus forming a second comet which
finally went into orbit as Venus. This would explain why ancient cultures held Venus in
such awe. Native American tribes sometimes performed human sacrifices whenever Venus
was particularly bright, and Greek mythology claimed that Venus was born from the
forehead of Zeus, who was associated with Jupiter.4
Some astrophysicists have speculated that Venus, while still an ice-coated comet,
temporarily was captured by the earth’s gravitational field for several orbits, but still
possessed too much angular momentum, and consequently adopted its present orbit.
By combining this hypothesis with that of Velikovsky’s, a rationale for the
previously-mentioned terrestrial anomalies is presented: if Venus initially was formed as a
comet arising from a collision that spawned Jupiter, it is possible that Venus entrained large
amounts of water, which formed a thick coating of ice over its surface.
When two celestial bodies are on a collision course, the one with the least mass
begins to disintegrate when it reaches a distance between the two bodies known as Roche’s
Limit. In this instance, the Venusian ice coating would have disintegrated as the Venusian
comet approached Planet Earth; at a height of three hundred miles above the earth’s surface,
the ice would have melted due to the comet’s high velocity as it encountered the friction of
the earth’s atmosphere, only to freeze once more as the moisture descended to a lower
altitude. As the ice crystals passed through the Van Allen belt, the ice crystals would have
become ionized, and therefore attracted to the earth’s magnetic poles, which explains why
the polar ice caps are closer to the geomagnetic poles than to the geographic axis.
Such a massive volume of ice crystals, raining down upon the polar regions from
space, probably would have prevented the ice from elevating its temperature much above
the black body radiation temperature of the upper atmosphere, which is approximately
minus fifty degrees Fahrenheit. This in turn quite possibly could have lowered the jet
stream to near ground level, which would account for ancient tales of phenomenal winds
removing mountain tops. It would also provide a rational explanation for the fact that the
arctic tundra contains billions of mammoth elephant bone fragments. One can visualize
herds of hapless elephants being flash frozen, then torn to shreds by winds attaining
velocities of many hundreds of miles per hour.
Chinese folklore claims that at the time of the global deluge, a terrible groaning
noise was heard in the sky, which sounded like the word “Yahoo”. So profound was the
experience that one of the first historically-recorded Chinese emperors was named Yahou,
in commemoration of the horrific event. Very significantly, the proto-Israelite Kenite clan,
domiciled in the Negev region, named their principal deity Yehu, which at a later date,
etymologically gave rise to the fearsome and vengeance-wreaking deity “Yahwey”. The
awesome groaning noise well could have been the result of very powerful electrical
capacitance discharges between planet Earth and the temporarily orbiting comet Venus.
The writer accordingly suggests that a previously advanced civilization was
destroyed in a cataclysmic celestial event, which involved the temporary orbital capture of
Venus, still a comet, by planet Earth; this catastrophe resulted in a simultaneous global
flood and a reshaping of the earth’s topography. Still possessing too much angular
momentum to remain in a stable orbit around Earth, Venus eventually adopted its present
orbit and became a planet. Recorded history can only be traced back little more than five
thousand years, which suggests that the cataclysm occurred shortly prior to that period.
Significantly, Sumerian clay texts state that King Ziusudra was advised to construct
a Tibatu —a ship designed to survive a capsize, in order to survive a predicted massive
4
flood. The Babylonian chronicler and priest Berossus, also described a flood epic in his
Babylonian Antiquities, in which he mentioned the construction of an ark possessing the
capability of withstanding a capsizing. Sumerian textual data implies that King Ziusudra
lived approximately 6800 years ago. This date fits favorably with the data obtained from ice
cores during Admiral Byrd’s Antarctic expedition, which suggests that Antarctica was still
ice-free 9000 years ago.
During the past century, several sightings of an ark have been made in the Ararat
region formerly known as the Kingdom of Uratu. The remains of an ancient ship
supposedly were observed there in 1917 by a Russian expedition, while another sighting
was claimed by Ed Davis in 1943.
Claims have been made that the remains of what appears to have been an ark have
been sighted embedded in a glacier on the slopes of Mount Ararat. In actuality, wood
samples taken from the site carbon date to the mediæval era. This suggests that the remains
are from the site of a mediæval monastery known to have been constructed on the
mountain by edict of St. Jacob. The wily monks sculpted a rock out-cropping into the form
of an ark, then sold what they claimed were timbers salvaged from the ark to gullible
pilgrims. Naturally, the corrupt monks prevented visitors from approaching too close to the
vicinity of the “ark”. What is notable, however, is that salt crystals have been found on the
mountain at the 6000 foot level, indicative that oceanic floodwaters once inundated the
Ararat region at one time.
Even though St. Jacob’s ark clearly is a grand deception, the same cannot be said
for a curious structure that was the subject of an aerial photograph taken in the 1950’s, by
U2 pilot Gary Powers. The photograph showed that approximately fourteen miles south of
Mount Ararat, an earthquake had resulted in soil slippage which revealed the outline of a
large ship. An archaeological team explored the anomaly, never bothered to conduct a
materials analysis, and promptly concluded that the site was of natural origins.
During the 1980’s, American amateur archaeologist Ron Wyatt visited the site and
collected samples of what he suspected were iron oxide and petrified wood. A laboratory
analysis of the samples verified his suspicions; returning to the site, Wyatt and his team of
assistants conducted a site exploration involving the use of metal detectors and interface
radar instrumentation. Amazingly, the investigation revealed the outline of a ship which
corresponded to the dimensions of the biblical ark!
A wooden ship of such great antiquity normally would be undetectable at the
present time, if left exposed to the elements. In this case however, a lava eruption,
followed by subsequent mudflows, had encapsulated the vessel, thereby facilitating the
petrification of the wood and preserving the rusted remains of iron rivets.. Fortunately, the
Turkish government has preserved the location as an historical site, for thanks to the
superlative efforts of Mr. Wyatt, what could have been dismissed as yet another apocryphal
tale, serves instead to corroborate the flood accounts depicted by Berossus and the authors
of the Book of Genesis.
Mr. Wyatt claims to have discovered fossilized animal dung at the sight. This
should not necessarily be construed as corroboration of the accommodation of two of every
species of creatures as the Bible states—surely a logistical improbability. It is more likely
that the ark occupants had a relatively small number of animals on board as a food supply
for themselves. Let us not ignore the fact that some pre-flood civilizations appear to have
possessed a very high degree of scientific knowledge. Is it not possible therefore, that the
ark occupants took with them cell cultures from many different species of creatures, then
cloned these particular species after the floodwaters had subsided? In addition, let us not
discount the fact that possibly many similar vessels were constructed, which could account
for ark sightings in disparate regions surrounding Mount Ararat.
Shortly after the chapter was commenced from which this article was abridged, the
news media announced the discovery of a submerged house in the Black Sea; the
discoverer was Commander Robert Ballard (USN Rtd.) noted for finding the wreck of the
5
ill-fated Titanic. Ballard believes that the daub and wattle house was submerged during the
global flood. Of great significance to our narrative is the fact that carbon dating suggests
that the house is 7000 years old—further evidence that the global flood occurred less than
7000 years ago.
Imagine what would happen today if the global land masses were to be devastated
by a series of cataclysmic earthquakes and a deadly plague broke out worldwide, as the
result of geophysical and biological warfare. Destruction of highways and airports, in
addition to lack of manpower, would force the relatively few survivors to become huntergatherers
of food, a task which would occupy most of their waking hours, thus preventing
the education of children. Within a few generations, most surviving communities probably
would have devolved to a primitive and superstitious level of existence. Even if some
survivors remained literate, modern books, printed on acid paper, would have become
brittle and useless after several decades, thereby expunging records of past history.
Even though the close passage of a celestial body such as Venus, could account for
our polar icecaps and the biblical global flood, as described above, the temperature of the
snow and ice cascading down from space would not be sufficiently low as to cause the
flash-freezing of mammoth elephants. If we are to comprehend the patterns of the past, we
simply cannot ignore the problem of the flash-freezing of mammoth elephants, as academia
has elected to do. Clearly some catastrophic event almost instantaneously lowered the
ambient temperature to less than minus one hundred and fifty degrees Fahrenheit! This is
the temperature at which flesh can be flash-frozen.
A possible mechanism for the rapid temperature drop may be deduced from the
inventions of that great researcher Nikola Tesla. During the 1930’s, Tesla invented a beam
weapon which generated longitudinally-pulsed scalar waves. At a target distance equal to
one quarter wavelength of the weapon’s resonant frequency emissions, the air in the target
area would expand very rapidly, followed by a massive implosion, which possessed the
capability of lowering the air temperature to almost absolute zero. As Venus temporarily
orbited the earth, massive electrical discharges between the celestial body and the magnetic
poles of planet Earth well could have created an effect similar to that of Tesla’s beam
weapon. It should also be noted that developments of Tesla’s Magnifying Transmitter
currently are being employed by several major powers as geophysical warfare devices. In
one particular mode, such weapons are capable of flash-freezing the inhabitants of cities
located thousands of miles from the weapon in question.
Fossilized plants indicate that at one time, the earth experienced a uniform tropical
climate. This would have been the case if a canopy of water vapor had enveloped the
earth’s atmosphere, as is suggested in the Book of Genesis. Such a water canopy
immediately would have been condensed by the falling snow and ice from the temporarilyorbiting
comet, which eventually became the planet we know as Venus.
Satellite images have revealed that every minute of the day and night, approximately
twenty ice comets weighing approximately one hundred tons apiece, enter our atmosphere,
thereby continually adding to the volume of water in our oceans. According to
astrophysicist Dr. Louis Frank, the gentleman who first discovered the ice comets, our
solar system is believed to be surrounded by a vast belt of ice comets.5 According to Dr.
Frank, some of these ice comets are perturbed by the passage of a tenth planet, whose orbit
passes through the cometary belt (this is not the planet Niburu envisaged by author
Zechariah Sitchen). Dr. Frank hypothesizes that every few million years, this tenth planet
perturbs a gigantic ice comet so large that it crashes to earth, causing a major cataclysmic
event. As Venus, in its cometary form, temporarily orbited our planet, there is a possibility
that its mass as it traversed the comet belt, was sufficiently great as to knock one of these
giant ice comets out of its orbit. If such a catastrophe did in fact occur, the disintegrating ice
coating of Venus, plummeting toward the earth’s atmosphere, would accordingly be
accompanied by the remains of such an ice comet. Such an event would explain why the
earth’s polar icecaps are so large.
6
If such a massive amount of snow and ice was suddenly deposited in the polar
regions in this manner, it would flow radially outwardly, travelling along valleys and
avoiding mountains, which may be the reason why areas of the Northern Yukon region
were not impacted by the last ice age. If the comet Venus lost its ice coating as it neared
Earth, we would expect that the present-day planet Venus would possess very little
atmospheric water vapor. This was indeed verified in 1981 by the Pioneer space probe, as
it entered the lower levels of the Venusian atmosphere.
It is also quite possible that the mass of Venus, possessing too much angular
momentum to permanently remain in orbit around planet Earth, perturbed the sun as the
wayward comet streaked toward its final orbital location. If this occurred, the sun’s
perturbation well may have created very large solar flares, causing Earth’s oceans to boil as
the flares seared various regions of the earth. Much of the resultant steam may have
condensed and fallen as snow in the polar regions, thus adding to the mass of the polar ice
caps.
If Venus did indeed orbit planet Earth temporarily, its mass would have induced a
major tidal wave in the earth’s crust, creating new mountain ranges and causing the oceans
to surge over continents, expunging most life forms.
During its temporary orbits around our planet, the close approach of the luminous
comet Venus with its writhing tail, undoubtedly struck such terror among the global
populace, that archetypal images of Venus in its role of Lucifer the light bringer, remain
until the present era. Thus Illuminist Albert Pike, in his tutorial for 33rd Degree
freemasons, known as Morals and Dogma, states that Christianity should only be applied
in the masonic instruction given to masons of the lower degrees, but that the masonic
hierarchy worships Lucifer. Similarly, the esoteric works of Alice Bailey, possibly written
for the purpose of indoctrinating New Agers into the acceptance of eugenics and the New
World Order, are published by the Lucis Trust, formerly the Lucifer Publishing Company
(Bailey’s husband was a 33rd degree mason).
Mexican myths suggest that the comet possessed a serpent-like tail and was adorned
with appendages similar in appearance to feathers. Such appendages are referred to by
astronomers as a comets “beard”; this cataclysmic event probably gave rise to the legend of
the plumed serpent Quetzalcoatl. On its approach to earth, the comet’s luminous coma
apparently created the illusion of possessing two appendages like the horns of a bull, to the
terrified viewers on Earth. Sanchuniathon, a contemporary of the Assyrian Queen
Semiramis, wrote that Astarte (another appellation of Venus) had the head of a bull, while
the oral tradition of the Samoans held that: “The planet Venus became wild and horns grew
out of her head.”
In describing the resultant cataclysm, the Mayans claimed that oceans inundated
continents, volcanoes erupted, mountains rose and fell and a ferocious wind roared across
the face of the earth, sweeping away all forests and towns. The Mayans named this terrible
wind Hurrakan, from which the word “hurricane” is derived.
It is a consensus of academia that the earth’s topography has evolved in a
uniformitarian manner, i.e. no global cataclysms have occurred in recent millennia. This
belief structure obviously is incorrect, as is evidenced by the data presented in this article.
Having suggested that such a global disaster did, in fact, occur only approximately six
thousand, eight hundred years ago, which destroyed existing civilizations, including
possibly the Atlantean one, it now behooves us to determine the location of Atlantis, if it
ever existed.
Writers have provided us with a plethora of possible Atlantean locations, including
Tantalus in Turkey, the Bosphorus, Cuba and the Amazonian floodplains of Bolivia.
Another proposed location, which has received considerable attention in recent years, after
first being suggested by Greek archaeologist Professor Galanopoulos, is the Mediterranean
island of Crete. Admittedly its Minoan civilization virtually ended when much of the island
was destroyed by a catastrophic eruption of its volcano, known as Thera, which occurred
7
circa 1500 B.C.. The Minoan civilization was not an advanced original culture as
described by Plato, however, since the island’s wealth was simply derived by virtue of its
geographical location as a strategic intermediary stage in the trade route between the
Ottomani culture of the Carpathian Basin to the north, and its terminus in Egypt. A major
problem is that the above cited possible locations for Atlantis are too small to correlate with
the vast geographical continent described by Plato.
The most popular site claimed for the location of the fabled Atlantis is in the Atlantic
Ocean, either off Bimini, as claimed by Edgar Cayce, or along the Mid Atlantic Ridge.
Unfortunately, Cayce was not the infallible psychic, as claimed by some Cayce
biographers; in fact, many of his predictions were extremely vague, while others were
totally incorrect, such as his predictions that San Francisco, Los Angeles and New York
would be destroyed and submerged before the end of the twentieth century. The author
suggests that many of Cayce’s predictions were influenced by the beliefs of his early
financial mentor, Arthur Lammers. Lammers was a Theosophist who, in turn, probably
was influenced by the writings concerning Atlantis made by Theosophists Helena
Blavatsky and W. Scott-Elliot.
The 19th century congressperson Ignatius Donnelly, wrote an erudite book entitled
Atlantis: The Antediluvian World, which became a best seller. He was prompted to write
the book after learning of the discovery of the Mid Atlantic Ridge–a subterranean mountain
range up to six hundred miles in width, which extends from Iceland to near the coast of
Antarctica. Unfortunately for Donnelly, extensive underwater explorations of the Atlantic
Ocean ( which includes numerous core drillings) have failed to locate the remains of any
large cities.
It is not unreasonable to imagine that if the continent of Atlantis was as militarily
powerful as claimed, it would possess either an empire, or a commonwealth. If this were
indeed the case, a landmass as large as an ice-free Antarctica could suffice as either Atlantis
itself, or as an Atlantean satrapy. Since it presently is covered with an ice coating up to a
mile thick in places, it is unlikely that core drillings will yield any ancient artifacts in the
foreseeable future. Be that as it may, we have only two meaningful accounts of Atlantis and
its purported location, which have survived from antiquity.
The first of these accounts is to be found in the writings of Plato (427-347 B.C.).
In his dialogue Timaeus, Plato reports on the visit to Egypt undertaken by the Greek
legislator Solon circa 600 B.C.. Psonchis, an Egyptian high priest, revealed to Solon that
at one time an advanced civilization existed on a vast continent called Atlantis; the continent
rapidly sank beneath the waves, together with most of its inhabitants, about 9000 years
prior to the time of Solon. The cataclysm was preceded by “a deviation in their course of
the bodies moving around the Earth and the Heavens....”, a possible reference to the
celestial catastrophe that spawned Venus as a comet. Plato’s Critias, which was never
completed, states that Psonchis, the high priest, relates to Solon that the Atlanteans were
accomplished architects; their capital city was eleven miles in diameter and contained a
series of wide canals in the form of concentric rings.
Was the story of Atlantis, as reported by Plato, fact or fiction? Many present-day
scholars dismiss Plato’s Atlantean account as a fable, but Solon, Timaeus and Critias all
were real historical figures. Timaeus hailed from southern Italy and was an explorer and
astronomer, while Critias, a cousin of Plato’s mother, was a poet and astronomer, who
was killed in a battle in 403 B.C.. Krantor, a disciple of Plato, purportedly travelled to
Egypt in order to verify for himself Plato’s Atlantean account. Visiting the Temple of Neith
at the former Egyptian capital city of Sais, Krantor, who was a scholar at the Great Library
of Alexandria, claimed to have seen tablets which confirmed Plato’s account of Atlantis.
Some aspects of Plato’s narrative are troubling to the author. Plato claimed that the
Atlanteans were defeated in a battle by the Athenian troops. This would imply that the city
of Athens existed more than nine thousand years prior to Plato’s era—a date far older than
the founding of the Greek city. Psonchis, the name of the Egyptian high priest visited by
8
Solon, is a Greek derivation of “Sebek,” an Egyptian water deity and the son of the
Goddess Neith. One of the pre-dynastic deities, Neith was associated with the Waters of
Chaos, possibly an allusion to the demise of Atlantis (the Greek Goddess Athena was a
later personification). There is a possibility that the high priest had a different birth name,
“Psonchis” being selected by Plato in order to present factual information in the form of an
allegorical story.
According to Plato, the continent of Atlantis was located in the Atlantic Ocean
beyond the Pillars of Herakles, and was larger than North Africa and Asia Minor
combined. As was stated previously, extensive undersea explorations of the Atlantic seabed
conducted by several individual nations, has failed to indicate the remains of possible major
artifacts, other than a possible subterranean causeway and a purported pyramid observed in
separate areas of the Caribbean. Does this imply that Plato’s claim that Atlantis was in the
Atlantic Ocean was a fallacious statement? Not at all—it simply means that the typical writer
on Atlantean matters has failed to conduct sufficient research, and consequently seeks the
fabled continent in the wrong geographical region of the planet!
Exactly which region of the world was Plato referring to when he claimed that
Atlantis had been situated in the Atlantic Ocean? A perusal of classical authors demonstrates
that Aristotle (384-322B.C.) in his De Coelo states that the term “Atlantic Ocean”
encompassed all the world’s oceans, while Herodotus, who predated Plato by a century,
claimed that the Atlantic Ocean was the ocean we now refer to as the Indian Ocean.
It therefore behooves us to refer to the only known extremely ancient historical
body of knowledge which makes reference to the continent of Atlantis.This is the official
history of the world, as meticulously kept for millennia by the historians of the Illuminati.
The Illuminati is not the short-lived secret society founded in Bavaria by Adam Weishaupt,
as is popularly believed, but rather is comprised of thirteen interconnected satanic family
bloodlines, who have covertly been the overlords of humankind since prior to the dawn of
recorded history. Certain mind controlled Illuminati slaves who attain the exalted rank
known as Mother of Darkness, are programmed to possess photographic memories, in
order to perpetuate an oral tradition of maintaining an accurate history of the world. Such
slaves are provided access to the world’s most closely guarded repositories of ancient
historical works, such as the Vatican Library and the works of antiquity found in certain
Asian monasteries.
Occasionally, the mind control programming of a few high-level Illuminati slaves
begins to unravel upon the death of their programmers. Through working in a support
capacity in order to assist such hapless victims to escape the clutches of the Illuminati, the
author has learned how to access much historical data believed by the arrogant Illuminati
hierarchy to be irretrievable by mere members of humanity.
According to the official Illuminati history, Atlantis was a vast continent which
divided the Indian and Pacific oceans. According to contemporary geologists, continents
can be subjected to uplifting forces, but cannot sink. As previously stated in this essay,
evidence of fossilized tropical plants has been found in all areas of this planet, suggestive
that prior to the Noahic global flood, the atmospheric water canopy referred to in the Book
of Genesis was an actuality.
Since the water vapor is a far more efficient greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide,
the resultant greenhouse effect enveloping the planet at that time period would have created
far more vegetation globally, than is existing at the present time.
The oxygen transpired by plantlife is derived from dissociation (splitting) of the
water molecules in the vegetation, not from dissociation of carbon dioxide molecules
during photosynthesis. In practical terms, this means that water taken in by plantlife is not
recoverable as part of the normal hydrological cycle, since the hydrogen atoms contained in
the dissociated water molecules are used in the formation of plant carbohydrates. At the
present time, some six hundred billion tons of water are dissociated by land and marine
plantlife annually.
9
This figure would have been far greater in Atlantean times, due to the luxuriant
plantlife pervading all regions of Earth, which in turn would suggest that the oceans were
much more shallow in those days. According to Illuminati global history, the vast Atlantean
continent encompassed Japan to the north, Indonesia in the south, and the Indus Valley to
the west. The continent would have included the land now covered by the South China
Sea. Significantly, the depth of the South China Sea seldom exceeds three hundred feet.
In summation, evidence has been presented in this essay which suggests that
Atlantis did, in fact, exist. It was a continent approximately three times the size of presentday
India; moreover, it did not sink—most of its landmass simply was submerged when an
enormous volume of ice of extraterrestrial origin was deposited in the polar region. Japan,
Indonesia, Malaysia and the Philippines are the remnants of Atlantis which were not
submerged, but had their topography modified by tidal waves and volcanic activity arising
from the cataclysm.
The causal factor of this catastrophic event, according to the author’s hypothesis,
was an ice-coated comet, which orbited Earth temporarily, creating geophysical havoc in
the form of mountain building and volcanic activity. This horrendous event annihilated
most terrestrial lifeforms which existed at lower elevations of the planet. Agglomerations of
Venusian rock may have been sufficiently insulated by a thick enough ice coating, as to
withstand excessive frictional heating as it encountered Earth’s atmosphere. If this were the
case—the ice coating functioning as a sacrificial ablative insulator, then the rock may have
contained deadly pathogens which caused certain terrestrial species of megafauna, such as
the mastodon and diprotodon to become extinct. Even though paleontological evidence has
revealed that mass extinctions of very large mammals occurred after the appearance on earth
of humankind, it may mean that deadly pathogens released during the above-described
cataclysmic event were the causal factor in the hapless creatures demise, not that they were
hunted to extinction by homosapiens. The author hopes that modern dating methods, e.g.
the optical dating technique, which records the last time that grains of quartz were exposed
to sunlight, be used in order to determine such extinction periods.
The wayward comet eventually orbited the sun as the planet Venus, apparently
perturbing Earth and Mars in the process. This explains why the Mars Pathfinder survey
revealed that rocks on the Martian surface exhibited very little erosion, despite the
occurrence of sandstorms, suggestive that the present Martian landscape is only a few
thousand years old. The Krakatoa volcano, which erupted so explosively in the 19th.
century, well may have been an extremely tall mountain during the Atlantean era–possibly
the fabled Mount Atlas; the resultant caldera would therefore have created the present-day
Sunda Straights, which are located between Sumatra and Java.
The author’s contention that Atlantis spanned both the Indian Ocean and the Pacific
Ocean would appear to be in conflict with the claims of writers who believed that this was
the site of other submerged continents. Thus the previously-mentioned Theosophist W.
Scott-Elliot, after writing his book concerning Atlantis, wrote another book in which he
claimed that he psychically perceived that there was a lost continent in the Pacific Ocean.
Zoologist L.P. Sclater called this purported continent Lemuria, after the animal known as
the lemur.
In 1926, a young Englishman by the name of James Churchward, had a book
published called The Lost Continent of Mu. Churchward claimed that while in India, a
Brahmin priest permitted him to copy ancient tablets which purported to describe a lost
continent in the Pacific Ocean called Mu. According to Churchward, he later encountered a
mining engineer named William Niven, who hailed from Scotland. Niven showed
Churchward some engraved stone tablets which he had discovered in a Mexican village
located near Acapulco. According to Churchward, the tablets were written in the same
language as that on the tablets previously shown him by the Brahmin priest in India.
Churchward claimed that the Mexican tablets had been written by Naacal priests, who had
been sent to Central America from Mu.
10
Churchward wrote five books about the mysterious submerged continent of Mu,
which have been regarded as fraudulent by some scholars, due to Churchward’s failure to
provide a meaningful location for the Indian temple that held the supposed tablets. There is
a possibility that Churchward, lacking the ability to decipher the Mexican tablets which had
been discovered by Niven, concocted the fictitious account of the Mu civilization after
making the acquaintance of an elderly adventurer named Augustus Le Plongeon, who died
in Algiers, in 1915.
A former lawyer, Le Plongeon and his English wife settled in Yucatan in 1873.
After learning the Mayan language, Le Plongeon translated the Mayan text known as the
Troano Codex, which significantly, according to Le Plongeon, described the cataclysmic
submergence beneath the waves of an ancient continent that the Mayans called Mu.
What we appear to have then, are not two ancient continents—Atlantis in the
present-day Atlantic Ocean and Mu in the Pacific, as is currently claimed by writers of the
New Age genre, but in reality only one partially submerged vast continent situated in both
the Indian and North Pacific Oceans!
If the global flood destroyed most life existing on the surface of Planet Earth, it
presumably would have destroyed civilization as it existed in the pre-flood era.
Surprisingly, a trace of a previous advanced culture is to be found in the remarkably
advanced catamarans still sailed in the Pacific Ocean by the inhabitants of the Marianas
Islands. These catamarans, locally known as proas, date back at least five thousand years;
they not only possess an asymmetric hull, thus eliminating the necessity for a centerboard,
a feature only reintroduced in the 20th century by catamaran designer Hobie Alter, but also
incorporate a mast inclined at an acute angle, in order to provide a vertical lifting component
to the hull.
The science of ethnomusicography also provides us with clues to incredibly
complex music of great antiquity, such as very ancient clay flutes discovered in Central
America capable of accommodating a musical scale consisting of eighty microtones. One
would hope that traces of a very ancient culture would be found in the vicinity of the
appropriately-named Atlas Mountains of Morocco. This is indeed the case, for local
woodwind musicians perform very complex music characterized by holding notes for
incredibly long periods of time—a feat far beyond the capabilities of western trained
musicians.The holding of such long notes is accomplished by boring a hole extending from
behind the ear to the windpipe of the musician. The origins of this unique surgical
procedure are lost in the mists of time, and could be a legacy from Atlantis, retained by
migrating flood survivors.
According to the official Illuminati history of the world, which has been shielded
from the general public for millennia, the Atlanteans were a race of reptilians and the
overlords of humanity. Curiously, a very politically-oriented and powerful international
group of five interconnected Japanese cults exists at the present time. Known in intelligence
circles as the Black Hand, this very subversive and politically dangerous organization is
composed of the financial power group that determines the political policies of the Japanese
Government.
This power group believes that the world was ruled from Japan during the preflood
era, and that it is the destiny of the present Japanese Emperor to be the new global
ruler. Japan has entered into a covert scientific treaty with Russia, in which Russia has
provided the Black Hand cults with Tesla geophysical warfare technology, receiving
advanced computer chips for Russian missile guidance systems in exchange. Since the
author’s hypothesis suggests that Japan once formed a part of the Atlantean continent,
perhaps a new Atlantean global dictatorship headed by the Japanese faction of the
Illuminati, will become a grim reality in the very near future, if the Black Hand succeeds in
its endeavors. A crucial component of this subversive plot is the plan to entice key western
personnel who have been trained to preside over Illuminati rituals, to permanently relocate
in Japan, thereby reducing the occult clout of the western Illuminati factions.
11
References
1. Portolan is a term meaning “port to port.”
2. Jochmans, J. Forgotten Ages. P.O. Box 10703, Rock Hill, South Carolina.
3. Flem-Ath. 1995. When the Sky Fell. Weidenfeld.
4. The publication in 1950 of Dr. Velikovsky’s book “Worlds in Collision,”
resulted in a malevolent and unwarranted attack being unleashed against him by prominent
members of academia, led by Dr. Carl Sagan. Many of Velikovsky’s predictions, e.g. the
composition of the Venusian atmosphere, were vehemently rebutted by Sagan, but
subsequently verified by later NASA space missions. Since publication of his book,
several younger astronomers have also proposed that planet Earth has been subjected to
catastrophic upheavals initiated by celestial bodies, without giving credit to the trailblazing
efforts of Dr. Velikovsky.
Sadly, prominent astronomer Patrick Moore referred to Velikovsky as a charlatan,
yet hypocritically praised the book “The Cosmic Serpent,” by astronomers Napier and
Clube as “revolutionary” and “....an honest effort to link astronomy and paleontology,
geology, mythology and even history”—the very reasons for which Moore and the
academic mafia crucified Velikovsky! Even more galling is the fact that the basic theory
propounded in The Cosmic Serpent is that the earth has been devastated in the past by
comets, asteroids and meteors, which gave rise to ancient myths. The crowning insult is
that the authors cite what is essentially Velikovsky’s evidence in support of their own
hypothesis! Fortunately, some ethical scholars and scientists are now promoting Dr.
Velikovsky’s research in several countries.
5. Like Dr. Velikovsky before him, Dr. Frank was branded a heretic by
several leading scientists, for publishing his ice comet hypothesis, until overwhelming
supportive space satellite data proved him correct and silenced his detractors.
The writer was born in the county of Dorset, in southern England. He has served as
a Technical Director for Research and Development for several American high technology
companies, and has provided consultation to a company engaged in deep space research.
He is currently engaged in the development of free energy systems in Southern California,
and is the author of the books “They Cast no Shadows”—a collection of his essays on
revisionist history, the Illuminati and suppressed technologies, and “A Blueprint for a
Better World.”

http://www.briansbetterworld.com/

Pin d"Ar

Laatst gewijzigd door Pindar : 3 maart 2008 om 11:49.
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Oud 3 maart 2008, 11:54   #625
Micele
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Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Pindar Bekijk bericht
hmmmmmmmmmmm
Pin d"Ar
Ik ga er een interessant stukje uit citeren, hoe jaloers en egoïstisch bepaalde wetenschappers mekaar kunnen in ´t diskrediet brengen, en telkens believers en non-believers teweeg brengt. Maar latere bewijzen tonen wel aan dat hij gelijk had.

Citaat:
4. The publication in 1950 of Dr. Velikovsky’s book “Worlds in Collision,”
resulted in a malevolent and unwarranted attack being unleashed against him by prominent
members of academia, led by Dr. Carl Sagan. Many of Velikovsky’s predictions, e.g. the
composition of the Venusian atmosphere, were vehemently rebutted by Sagan, but
subsequently verified by later NASA space missions. Since publication of his book,
several younger astronomers have also proposed that planet Earth has been subjected to
catastrophic upheavals initiated by celestial bodies, without giving credit to the trailblazing
efforts of Dr. Velikovsky.
Sadly, prominent astronomer Patrick Moore referred to Velikovsky as a charlatan,
yet hypocritically praised the book “The Cosmic Serpent,” by astronomers Napier and
Clube as “revolutionary” and “....an honest effort to link astronomy and paleontology,
geology, mythology and even history”—the very reasons for which Moore and the
academic mafia crucified Velikovsky! Even more galling is the fact that the basic theory
propounded in The Cosmic Serpent is that the earth has been devastated in the past by
comets, asteroids and meteors, which gave rise to ancient myths. The crowning insult is
that the authors cite what is essentially Velikovsky’s evidence in support of their own hypothesis!

Fortunately, some ethical scholars and scientists are now promoting Dr. Velikovsky’s research in several countries.
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Oud 3 maart 2008, 11:54   #626
Firestone
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Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Micele Bekijk bericht
Ik heb nog geen argumente gelezen die het detecteren van onbekende objecten door verscheidene grondradars tegelijk weerlegt.
Ik wacht ook nog altijd...
De post waarop ik reageerde ging over Von Däniken, Piri Reis, de "120 miljoen jaar oude kaart", niet grondradars. Toch goed geprobeerd.

Citaat:
Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Micele Bekijk bericht
Soit,
wie zijn nek uitsteekt vangt veel wind, op alles en nog wat zijn er kritische analyses, de vraag is alleen wie heeft het bij het rechte eind.

Wat ik alleszins wel weet is dat "critici" dezelfde trukken van de foor hebben om iets in diskrediet te brengen evenals vele "believers". So what ?
Vragen naar wetenschappelijk gefundeerde bewijzen is geen truk van de foor, maar een vrij normale vraag.
Dat believers meestal niet in staat blijken deze bewijzen aan te brengen ligt niet aan de kritische mensen, maar net aan de te bewijzen straffe beweringen.

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Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Micele Bekijk bericht
Het is natuurlijk veel gemakkellijker onverklaarbare dingen af te breken tot het bot, dan onverklaarbare dingen stilletjesaan pogen op te bouwen met puzzelstukjes van onbekende talen en tekens, door ze aan mekaar te knopen.
En dit over alle werelddelen verspreid, en toch vinden wetenschappers gemeenschappelijkheden, alhoewel dat alleen kon als de mensen -duizenden jaren voor Christus- toen al wisten over oceanen te geraken, dus te navigeren; of op een andere manier.

Nog niet zo lang geleden ca 550 j, dacht iedereen -vd "Westerse" bevolking/wetenschappers- dat de aarde nog plat was...

Toch blijven er overklaarbare raadsels bestaan, en daarom zullen echte wetenschappers toch voortdoen, en trekken zich van die kritiek helemaal niets aan..., alhoewel ze weten dat een nieuwe onverklaarbare vondst telkens alweer in diskrediet zal gebracht worden.

Bij de laatste religieuze geschriften (Bijbels, Koran, en anderen) vraag ik me telkens af wat nu die hemelvaart van bepaalde "profeten" wel kan betekenen, in vele zoniet alle godsdiensten (hier 4 geciteerde indelingen) hoe ver uit mekaar ook, en in andere talen, vindt men het terug.


Ik tel er 10, zelfs een profeet Elija (Elia) die met een vurige wagen de hemel opsteeg, de latere Jesus en sommige nog latere profeten worden in vele geschriften gemeenschappelijk vermeld.



N.B. Elia moet daar bijna 900 jaar oud geweest zijn volgens de Duitse wiki-link


Profeten genoeg, maar relatief weinigen die de hemelvaart zo geschreven "meemaakten", Apostel Johannes schreef ook ongeveer dat enkel die die uit de hemel neerdaalden terug naar de hemel kunnen varen.

De meeste Profeten, soms op raadselachtige wijze geboren op aarde, stierven ook op aarde, meestal vermoord. (Johannes de Doper o.a.)
Ik had het dus over wetenschappelijke bewijzen.
__________________
The method of science is tried and true. It is not perfect, it's just the best we have. And to abandon it, with its skeptical protocols is the pathway to a dark age. -- Carl Sagan

Laatst gewijzigd door Firestone : 3 maart 2008 om 11:55.
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Oud 3 maart 2008, 18:50   #627
willem1940NLD
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Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Micele Bekijk bericht
....... links te lezen ........
Westerlingen lezen rechts.

__________________
Als het regent in Limburg, kan het op Aarde best mooi weer zijn.
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Oud 3 maart 2008, 22:19   #628
praha
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Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Micele Bekijk bericht
Neen, niet door andere dingen die een radarecho geven identiek als grote vliegtuigen.
ik bemerk dat ik vorige keer te vlug gereageerd heb...

Citaat:
Met een paar bepaalde switchen te selecteren (6 mogelijkheden) op het digitaal verwerkingsgedeelte van de radar kan men enkel nog vliegtuigen zien.

(zegt MTI video, FTC, STC, PI, LC, HC, Staggering jou iets) ?
totaal geen idee op dit moment .. misschien als ik ze opzoek en de afkortingen voluit zie heb ik een idee of ken ik ze
maakt dat het systeem plots onfeilbaar ofzo ?
maakt dat dat er geen foutieve interpretaties kunnen zijn ?

Citaat:
Geen idee, wat hebben die gezegd ?
awel die kwamen tot een andere conclusie dan die prof ( btw spreken we hier over ene August Meessen van de KU Louvain-La-Neuve ? ) tot een geheel andere conclusie
volgens hen kon het dus wel
even citeren :
" Een parallel uitgevoerde analyse door kolonel Salmon (tijdens het onderzoek nog majoor) en door burgerlijk ingenieur Gilmard (destijds medewerker van het Electronic War Center) heeft inmiddels aangetoond dat er grove fouten zijn gemaakt bij de interpretatie van de radaropnamen. Dit officiële onderzoek laat zien dat in ten minste drie van de tien abnormale registraties, de boordradar van de ene F-16 de tweede F-16 voor een UFO had aangezien! Bij de resterende niet-geïdentificeerde echo's wordt nu gedacht aan de weerkaatsing van radargolven op inversielagen of op compacte en vochtige luchtmassa's."
dus nu vraag ik jou
zijn die heren uit hun nek aan 't lullen ?
is er sprake van een cover-up ( omdat het onderzoek na dat van de prof kwam )

Citaat:
Daarbij bij de Belgische luchtmacht zijn alle praktiserende radar-electronicussen en radarherstellers (onderhoud level 2 tot 4) onderofficier moest ge het nog niet weten, de kennis van officieren is maar algemeen en vaag, en blijft bij algemene theorie; na enkele jaren later in de eenheid zonder enige praktijkkennis is die theorie al vergeten. Officieren en zeker hogere (Kolonel en Ir-wat ?) maken hun handen daar niet aan vuil bij manier van spreken.
gesproken van een authoriteits (en ervarings) argument kan dat wel weer tellen, niet ?
vertel me eens waarom die prof die eveneens niet aan bovengenoemde criteria (voor zover ik weet ) voldoet dan wel plots weer wat zinnings te vertellen zou hebben en die twee anderen niet ?
vertel me ook eens wat een praktijkkennis kan bijbrengen tot het verklaren van een phenomeen dat net buiten het triviale lag ?

Citaat:
Daarbij krijgen radars om de x-jaren updates en verregaande digitaliseringen. Zonder permanente ervaring van radar-pannes en -storingen staat men nergens.
Kunnen uitleggen maar het niet - snel - kunnen herstellen, daar is men helemaal niets mee. Piloten willen zo snel mogelijk weer kunnen vliegen met de volledige radarondersteuning,en de luchtverkeersleiders willen functionerende en betrouwbare radars.
je schijnt nog niet door te hebben dat er niemand claimt dat er iets 'mis' was met de installatie
bovendien ga je voorbij het feit dat de f-16 piloten ( toch ook wel ervaren typekes lijkt me zo ) niets noemenswaardig geheimzinnig was voorgevallen en dat de afwijkingen op hun radarschermen, aldus hen,terug te voeren waren tot normale oorzaken

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Oud 3 maart 2008, 22:47   #629
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Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Micele Bekijk bericht
Lees mijn post nog eens, ik heb er nog wat bijgezet.
ondertussen deed ik dat, Micele
al zie ik niet meteen in wat het bijbrengt

Citaat:
Hogere officieren en Ir kunnen het soms wslk beter uileggen, maar de radartechnicussen moeten wel de pannes oplossen... wij leveren tenslotte de nodige technische oorzaken/gegevens, die we dan ook nog iets begrijpelijker moeten neerschrijven (mailen) zodat zij het hogerop kunnen uitleggen. Half-nederlands/ half-engels
(de radarboeken zijn in technisch Engels)

Wie denkt ge is de verantwoordelijke ad-hoc van een radar als het om het verlengen van de levensduur van een radar gaat ?
Wie denkt ge gaat de updatecursussen volgen bij burgerfirma´s (door burgerlijke Ir gegeven) als een update moet ingebouwd worden, wie helpt er dezelfde burgerlijke Ir met hun vragen als ze juist willen weten welke juiste signalen en radardata op de radar zelf te vinden is, en geen weg meer vindt in de verouderde-onduidelijke techische schema´s ?

Wie doet er alle voorbereidende metingen op de juiste plaatsen en punten zodat die updating snel en goedkoop verloopt ? En dat het daarna ook werkt hé.
Van kunnen uitleggen heeft nog niemand een defecte radar hersteld.

Zijt maar gerust die mensen die regelmatig -soms bijna dagelijks als er storingen zijn- met hun neus in de radar zit en de daily checks- weeklys, monthly enz.. -checks en nodige metingen doet die kent zijn materiaal en zijn storingen of mankementen en die kennen ook rare vliegtuigweergaves op het scherm.

Een verkeersleider die een abnormale storing op zijn scherm heeft roept alleen ons, en geen Kolonel of een Ir achter zijn bureau, atelier, of uit zijn F-16.

btw het kunnen ook tuigen zijn die gedeeltelijk uit kunststof gemaakt zijn, in elk geval moeten ze door onze dampkring neerdalen zonder wat te verbranden...

Enkel vaste stoffen of materiaal met een bepaalde dichtheid weerkaatsen electromagnetische stralen op die directe en propere manier dat ze een mooie -gelijk echt- vliegtuigecho op het radarscherm weergeven, wat is daar te bewijzen aan.
En als die dinges-echo´s zodanig bewegen over alle schermen van alle radars tegelijkertijd, en dit op een zodanige manier dan geen enkel aards vliegtuig deze snelheden en wendingen zo kan uitvoeren;
daarbij ook nog geen ondervraging of nadering toelaten, niet aangemeld waren in ons luchtruim - langzaam wordt het hilarisch...
dezelfde soort authoriteits ( en ervarings ) argument dus... meer niet
kijk, ik geloof best dat die technici wel degelijk goed op de hoogte zijn van zowel 'normale' als 'abnormale' signalen te weten interpreteren
maar hier gaat het toch om een heel bijzonder iets.... anders waren we er niet over aan het spreken
en ik kan me best voorstellen dat een 'leek' wat betreft radartechnologie nog niet het onderscheid kan maken tussen dat vlekje en een ander bliepje
maar daar gaat het 'm niet over... verre van
want wat vast staat ( of althans vermeend uit de verhalen zover ) is dat net die technici ( diegene met ervaring en er dus wat zinnig over kunnen vertellen ) het eens zijn dat het ging om een bijzonder extraordinair phenomeen
lange dus niet triviaal en lange dus ook niet ergens iets dat ze geleerd hebben vanuit hun constante bijscholing
niet verder dan hun 'neus' ( ervaring met radar ) ziende besluiten ze dat het niet anders kan dan gaan om een tuig en niets anders
vervolgens wordt er een prof ( lees goed ... toch ook niet meteen een deskundige wat betreft de radartechnologie ) bijgehaald die dan besluit : als het gaat om een tuig met die en die karakteristieken... dan kan het niet naders zijn dan dat het buitenaards is

zeer gek, terwijl de mening van die twee heren volledig onder tafel geveegd wordt met net het argument dat ze geen radartechnicie zijn

Citaat:
dan zijn het onbekende vliegende objecten die niet op aarde kunnen bestaan.
Amen
en dan kom je natuurijk bij dit als je niet verder dan je neus wilt zien
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Oud 3 maart 2008, 22:59   #630
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Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Micele Bekijk bericht
Bedoelt ge dat ?


Bij radars spreekt hij enkel van de volgradars van de F-16 niet van de radars van Glons, Semmerzake en Beauvechain die ook actief waren en die dingen detecteerden. Die radars kunnen ook adhv de bewegingen op het scherm ongeveer de snelheid en wendingen berekenen en zien aan de raw-video van die dingen, de hoogteveranderingen niet.

Van negatieve altitudes heb ik al gehoord, dan kan ofwel een simpele storing zijn (al dan niet door die ufo-dingen uitgestraald), of de volgradar van die ene F-16 slaat wat tilt... bij kortstondig lockverlies.

De andere F-16 had blijkbaar dat probleem niet, zoals ik kan lezen.

En de rest van de uitspraken is rond de pot draaien en eerder nietszeggend.
Kan, uitzonderlijk, misschien als, dat bla bla, ja zelfs alle rijkswachters en getuigen leden gelijktijdig onder "they could possibly have been caused by stars seen under conditions of "exceptional atmospheric refraction."... moet er nog zand zijn... in de ogen van...

En dat die dingen telkens wegvluchten bij de minste lock-up (lees citaat uit link)
moet toch ook een belletje doen rinkelen dat die dingen wisten wat ze onmiddellijk moesten doen als ze maar heel kort aangestraald werden.


Zoals ik al eerder zei die radarlocks van die F-16´s zijn veel minder relevant (enkel hoogte en dreiging) als de directe detectie van de 3-4 grondradars op verre afstand, die tenslotte niet door die UFO-dingen konden gestoord worden. En exceptionele atmosfererische storingen op een plaats kunnen ook geen radarstraal tegenhouden, de luchtverkeersleiders, assistenten en radartechnici hebben tenslotte die onbekende dingen op de betrokken radarschermen met eigen ogen kunnen zien.
kortom de prof die eerst werd opgevoerd als authoriteit ( even bijzeggen _ dat hield ik nog even achter maar ondertussen heb je dat zelf al gevonden _ dat het om gaat om een SOPEBS medewerker van het eerste uur is.... niet erg geloofwaardig ) komt nu zelf te zeggen dat alvast enkele waarnemingen perfect verklaarbaar (kunnen) zijn door perfect aardse omstandigheden in dezelfde lijn als die twee heren wiens kennis en inzicht je nog geen post eerder hebt proberen onderuit te halen ( argument het zijn geen radartechnici etc )
ik bemerk nu dat je je vasthoudt aan de enkele strohalms die nog niet 'verklaard' zijn
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Oud 3 maart 2008, 23:04   #631
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Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door exodus Bekijk bericht
Nee, ik heb het over dit, de link van de bron staat erbij. + ook het officiele statement van de Belgische luchtmacht.

http://forum.politics.be/showpost.ph...&postcount=557
in de eerste link zie ik het alvast nergens ontkracht staan, laat staan dat de getuigenis van de twee rijkswachters niet zouden kunnen handelen over wat sterren en planeten
moest ik erover gezien hebben... kan je me dat dan eens quoten
pppffffff .... nu nog die tweede

die tweede is al een pak meer stemmingsmakend ( 'k vraag me af waar die weeral vandaan komt * )
maar ook daar zie ik nergens staan dat de verklaring 'ontkracht' wordt... er blijft enkel het twijfelen omdat de beschrijving ogenschijnlijk niet meteen kan verklaard worden zoals men dat later deed

* mijn excuses ... je gaf de link op
wel, moet ik die serieus nemen ?

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Oud 3 maart 2008, 23:18   #632
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Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door exodus Bekijk bericht
Het is duidelijke dat dit een verklaring is die werkelijk op niets trekt.
mogelijks !
dat is toch duidelijk, exodus ?
dus niemand beweert hoog bij laag ( zelfs die 'afvallige' prof niet ) dat het dát de verklaring is
maar als je consequent bent is dit met evenveel recht en meer een veklaring dan het minder waarschijnlijke buitenaards verhaal
wilt dat nu zeggen dat er geen buitenaardsen waren ?
neen, maar het zegt wel duidelijk iets over de eerder gehanteede logica dat het niet anders kon dan dat het ging om buitenaardsen ( of ver geëvolueerde aardse technologie die ons niet bekend is, of een samenwerking )
met andere woorden ... je staat weer nergens buiten het 'geloof' ... en dat 'geloof' mag je best hebben van me
bovendien ben je weer aardig bezig, nadat het gebleken is dat je niet veel hards kunt maken, de bewijslast om te keren

Citaat:
Het is duidelijk niet wat die rijkswachters gezien hebben.
dat zeg jij, je baserende op het stukje uit die twee link

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Oud 3 maart 2008, 23:24   #633
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Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Micele Bekijk bericht
Ik heb nog geen argumente gelezen die het detecteren van onbekende objecten door verscheidene grondradars tegelijk weerlegt.
Ik wacht ook nog altijd...
nee hoor je verwat weer 't één en 't ander
het is aan jou om aan te tonen
dat het
1) zo was : maar da's eerlijk gezegd slechts een detail tenzij misschien om de geloofwaardigheid van bepaalde bronnen te gaan onderzoeken
2) dat dat alleen maar kan verklaard aan de hand van objecten in de zin waarover we hier spreken en nimmer kan veroorzaakt worden door mogelijke uitzonderlijke omstandigheden... tenslotte is dat je statement
en bij mijn weten heb je dat niet gedaan

over kritische analyses gesproken
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Oud 3 maart 2008, 23:29   #634
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Citaat:
Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Firestone Bekijk bericht
Ik had het dus over wetenschappelijke bewijzen.
als ik het zo lees dan kan het volgens micele evengoed gaan om de profeet Elia die nog eens een kijkje kwam nemen ofzo

blijkbaar doet de verklaring er precies niet toe zolang het maar lekker 'mystiek' blijft

btw klassificieren we die Elia tot het aardse of het buitenaarse ?

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Oud 4 maart 2008, 08:07   #635
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Citaat:
Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door praha Bekijk bericht
awel die kwamen tot een andere conclusie dan die prof ( btw spreken we hier over ene August Meessen van de KU Louvain-La-Neuve ? ) tot een geheel andere conclusie
volgens hen kon het dus wel
even citeren :
" Een parallel uitgevoerde analyse door kolonel Salmon (tijdens het onderzoek nog majoor) en door burgerlijk ingenieur Gilmard (destijds medewerker van het Electronic War Center) heeft inmiddels aangetoond dat er grove fouten zijn gemaakt bij de interpretatie van de radaropnamen. Dit officiële onderzoek laat zien dat in ten minste drie van de tien abnormale registraties, de boordradar van de ene F-16 de tweede F-16 voor een UFO had aangezien! Bij de resterende niet-geïdentificeerde echo's wordt nu gedacht aan de weerkaatsing van radargolven op inversielagen of op compacte en vochtige luchtmassa's."
dus nu vraag ik jou
zijn die heren uit hun nek aan 't lullen ?
is er sprake van een cover-up ( omdat het onderzoek na dat van de prof kwam )
Het rapport van die Salmon en Gimard is zo overtuigend nog niet en heeft zijn hiaten. Het verklaart niet alles. Het is een een poging is om het fenomeen een aardse verklaring te geven, en het heeft nog altijd geen verklaring voor één radartrace.

Citaat:
An analysis done by Colonel Salmon (then a Major still) and by civil engineer Gilmard (former employee Electronic War Centre) concluded that mistakes were made in the interpretation of the radar takes. This official investigation shows that on at least three of the ten 'abnormal' registrations, the radar on board of the one F-16 had taken the other F-16 for a UFO.
The remainder of the non-identified echos was then assumed to be the reflection of the radar waves on temperature inversions and humid masses of air.
The light beams which had been signalled earlier were then dismissed as 'stars'.

NOTES:
- Three out of ten registrations were explained - no word on the others.
- Even if 5 or 7 or even 9 were explained, that leaves one (or 3 or 5 which remains a mystery, doesn't it?
- Strangely enough, at the time the meteorological institute reported there was no significant temperature inversion, that was stated in the original report issued to the press. But for the convenience of explaining the phenomenon away suddenly we do have temperature inversion... Or was the original report wrong?
- Of course, prof. Meessen may have been biased and seen evidence of an ET craft where none was - he was a member of Sobeps and had been involved with UFO research for ages and may have wanted the thing to be an ET craft - but the military would have been biased in the other direction. Conflicting evidence... what else is new? Maybe they should have done a joint research - or present their evidence to a judge and let him decide...
Citaat:
Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door praha Bekijk bericht
neen, maar het zegt wel duidelijk iets over de eerder gehanteede logica dat het niet anders kon dan dat het ging om buitenaardsen ( of ver geëvolueerde aardse technologie die ons niet bekend is, of een samenwerking )
met andere woorden ... je staat weer nergens buiten het 'geloof' ... en dat 'geloof' mag je best hebben van me
bovendien ben je weer aardig bezig, nadat het gebleken is dat je niet veel hards kunt maken, de bewijslast om te keren
Nee,; we hebben nog ooggetuigen, hier een schets vanuit die periode van wat gezien is door tientallen getuigen + fotografisch ondersteunend bewijs. Bovendien kwamen de radarwaarnemingen overeen met het getuigenis van de rijkswachters. De F16 zijn gescrambled geweest door hetgeen de rijkswachters gezien hebben en wat ook op radar opgemerkt was. Wat de rijkswachters gezien hebben komt perfect overeen met wat hieronder te zien was en door vele andere ooggetuigen ook gezien is.






Hier hebben we trouwens nog eens stuk uit het officiele rapport van de Belgische luchtmacht van de nacht van 30 op 31 maart 1990.

Citaat:
23 h 00: The supervisor responsible (MC) for the Glons CRC (Control Reporting Center) receives a phone call from Mr. A. Renkin, gendarmerie MDL, who certifies to see, from his home at Ramillies, three unusual lights towards Thorembais-Gembloux. These lights are distinctly more intense than stars and planets, they don't move and are located at the apexes of an equilateral triangle. Their color is changing: red, green and yellow.

23 h 05: The Glons CRC asks the gendarmerie of Wavre to send a patrol at this place in order to confirm this sighting.

23 h 10: A new call from Mr. Renkin points out a new phenomenon: three other lights move towards the first triangle. One of these lights is far brighter than the others. The Glons CRC records an unidentified radar contact, about 5 km north of the Beauvechain airport. The contact moves at about 25 knots towards the west.

23 h 28: A gendarmerie patrol including, among others, Captain Pinson, is on the premises and confirms Mr. Renkin's sightings. Captain Pinson describes the observed phenomenon as follows: the bright points have the dimension of a big star; their color changes continually. The prevailing color is red; then it changes in blue, green, yellow and white, but not always in the same order. The lights are very bright, as if they were signals: this enables to distinguish them from stars.

23 h 30 - 23 h 45: The second set of lights have drawn closer to the first observed triangle. In their turn, after a series of erratic moves, they also start forming a triangle.
In the mean time the Glons CRC observes the phenomenon on radar.
En dit ook uit hetzelfde rapport:

Citaat:
e/ The 'optical illusion' hypothesis, confusion with planets, or any other meteorological phenomenon, is in contradiction with the radar observations, especially the 10000 feet altitude and the geometrical position of the UFOs between themselves. The geometrical formation tends to prove a program.
f/ Although the first observation of the slow motion of the UFOs has been made roughly in the same direction and with the same speed as the wind, its direction differs by 30 degrees from the direction of the wind (260 degrees instead of 230 degrees). The hypothesis of sounding balloons is very improbable. The UFOs altitude during all this phase remained 10000 feet, whereas the sounding balloons go on higher and higher, and burst at around 100000 feet. It is difficult to explain the bright lights and changes of color with such balloons. It is also improbable that balloons stay at the same altitude during more than one hour, while keeping the same position between themselves. In Belgium, during the radar observation, there was no meteorological inversion in progress. The hypothesis that it could be balloons must be absolutely dismissed.
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Yesterday I was clever, so I wanted to change the world. Today I am wise, so I am changing myself. – Rumi

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Oud 4 maart 2008, 14:03   #636
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Citaat:
HELLO HOUSTON THIS IS DISCOVERY
WE STILL HAVE THE ALIEN SPACECRAFT, UH..
ON V.F.R.
http://www.ken-welch.com/Reports/Aliens.html

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Oud 4 maart 2008, 14:06   #637
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Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Akufen Bekijk bericht
??
Candidates & Issues Matrix....
??
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Oud 4 maart 2008, 14:07   #638
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Ow ja..
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Oud 4 maart 2008, 17:53   #639
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Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door exodus Bekijk bericht
Het rapport van die Salmon en Gimard is zo overtuigend nog niet en heeft zijn hiaten. Het verklaart niet alles. Het is een een poging is om het fenomeen een aardse verklaring te geven, en het heeft nog altijd geen verklaring voor één radartrace.




Nee,; we hebben nog ooggetuigen, hier een schets vanuit die periode van wat gezien is door tientallen getuigen + fotografisch ondersteunend bewijs. Bovendien kwamen de radarwaarnemingen overeen met het getuigenis van de rijkswachters. De F16 zijn gescrambled geweest door hetgeen de rijkswachters gezien hebben en wat ook op radar opgemerkt was. Wat de rijkswachters gezien hebben komt perfect overeen met wat hieronder te zien was en door vele andere ooggetuigen ook gezien is.






Hier hebben we trouwens nog eens stuk uit het officiele rapport van de Belgische luchtmacht van de nacht van 30 op 31 maart 1990.



En dit ook uit hetzelfde rapport:
Wat een mogelijkheden toch met een gejat verkeersbord, zeg.
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Oud 4 maart 2008, 19:47   #640
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Citaat:
I had purchased a cheap digital camera and had cannibalized it to make an inexpensive CCD imaging system for my telescope.

That morning I had gotten up early in the AM to try and get some pictures of Mars - which was rising early in the morning that time of year. As I recall Mars was close to Venus and it was a very pretty morning. Anyway I took a few pictures but was not pleased with the results - Mars was very small. It was also very blurry because Mars was somewhat lower on the horizon than would be desired. It was very cold, and it was just starting to get light out (although the sun was about a half hour or so from rising). Also, although the sky was clearer than normal, there were still just too many clouds. So I decided to try just a few more and then pack up.

If you ever used a telescope you know that you have to constantly readjust the direction that it is pointing because as the earth turns the object that the telescope is pointing at quickly moves out of view. It was while doing this that I noticed a bright object passing slowly overhead. I assumed it was a satellite - but I thought it would be fun to try and point the telescope at it and take a picture. It took me a few moments to readjust the telescope. When I finally got it pointed at the object I was surprised to see on my LCD that through the telescope the camera picked up quite a bit of detail. I knew then that this wasn't an ordinary satellite. I was expecting just a fine point of light. However the sunlight on the object indicated (to me at least) that the object was quite high, since down on the ground it was still dark.
http://www.iwasabducted.com/telescopicufo.htm


vrij spectaculair, alhoewel ik eerlijk moet toegeven dat ik dit wel makkelijk zou kunnen namaken in Lightwave of Maya.
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